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r2d2
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24 Nov 2014, 10:49 am

I think part of the problem when we are talking about level 1 - mild ASD or what is still called some places Asperger's Syndrome is, "How does one define 'requires support'?"

If for example one takes a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor and sees some kind of shrink occasionally, has been diagnosed by a professional - but has lived independently and held down a job - but deals with a certain amount of anxiety and social isolation - Does that qualify as - "Requiring support"?

If someone fills every criteria stated for level 1 - Mild ASD - but through much effort achieved a point where they no longer require support - are then then cured of ASD?

I guess the term "requires support" allows a lot of room for definition.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Nov 2014, 10:52 am

If a person must take medication to function amid his/her ASD, this person is at least within Level 1. The medication is the "support."

To a certain extent, depending upon the nature of the therapeutic relationship, a therapist could be considered an essential "support" IMHO.



AspieUtah
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24 Nov 2014, 10:53 am

r2d2 wrote:
I think part of the problem when we are talking about level 1 - mild ASD or what is still called some places Asperger's Syndrome is, "How does one define 'requires support'?"

If for example one takes a Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor and sees some kind of shrink occasionally, has been diagnosed by a professional - but has lived independently and held down a job - but deals with a certain amount of anxiety and social isolation - Does that qualify as - "Requiring support"?

If someone fills every criteria stated for level 1 - Mild ASD - but through much effort achieved a point where they no longer require support - are then then cured of ASD?

I guess the term "requires support" allows a lot of room for definition.

Exactly my point. I would say that it does qualify for "support." But, I have met, experienced and read about some diagnosticians and other professionals who are, for all practical purposes, making it up as they go along. I have been told by a psychiatric Ph.D. that she couldn't diagnose my AS "just for curiousity's sake" and that any diagnosis would require an agreement to continue with "counseling" for at least a year. Uh-huh! Signal received and understood completely; some are in it for the Benjamins.

And, yes, I was actually told by a subsequent diagnostician "congratulations! You appear to have cured yourself." Of a neurodevelopmental disorder?!? Is that possible? Apparently, it is under the DSM-5 criteria, because I lacked "deficits" even though she did find AS-factors including GAD and OCD. Convoluted.

Both experiences taught me all I need to know about the current state of affairs within the psychological cartel.


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yournamehere
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24 Nov 2014, 11:15 am

From what I have read, I would hardly call level one "mild". That is a fairly serious issue that any NT would not be in a position to be o.k. with, if the shoe was on the other foot.

Level zero doesn't even make sence. The multiplication of anything times zero is zero.

ASD level zero just doesn't cancel itself out because you have it?

It is a stupid form of interpretation, not unlike over engineering, created by over educated people that are not in the position of a person with an ASD.

And that is nothing new.

That is just my opinion.



AspieUtah
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24 Nov 2014, 11:22 am

yournamehere wrote:
From what I have read, I would hardly call level one "mild". That is a fairly serious issue that any NT would not be in a position to be o.k. with, if the shoe was on the other foot.

Level zero doesn't even make sence. The multiplication of anything times zero is zero.

ASD level zero just doesn't cancel itself out because you have it?

It is a stupid form of interpretation, not unlike over engineering, created by over educated people that are not in the position of a person with an ASD.

And that is nothing new.

That is just my opinion.

I agree. So, are you, therefore, advocating that ASD level 0 could exist as a stand-alone diagnosis? That would contradict the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria, but I agree wholeheartedly that the logic takes us there. Why even create an ASD level 0 if it means that no such diagnosis could exist?

Again, the cartel is convoluted.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Nov 2014, 11:28 am

I believe the solution would be to assign "Level 1" to the person who is not in need of "support," "Level 2" for one who does not need "substantial" support, etc.

One could have pretty serious symptoms within their autism--yet this one is able to manage his/her symptoms without outside "support."



AspieUtah
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24 Nov 2014, 11:40 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe the solution would be to assign "Level 1" to the person who is not in need of "support," "Level 2" for one who does not need "substantial" support, etc.

One could have pretty serious symptoms within their autism--yet this one is able to manage his/her symptoms without outside "support."

Brilliant as always, kraftiekortie! Now, if we could just get that APA membership to come through for you. :D

BTW, happy 6000th post!


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Last edited by AspieUtah on 24 Nov 2014, 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

yournamehere
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24 Nov 2014, 11:41 am

AspieUtah wrote:
yournamehere wrote:
From what I have read, I would hardly call level one "mild". That is a fairly serious issue that any NT would not be in a position to be o.k. with, if the shoe was on the other foot.

Level zero doesn't even make sence. The multiplication of anything times zero is zero.

ASD level zero just doesn't cancel itself out because you have it?

It is a stupid form of interpretation, not unlike over engineering, created by over educated people that are not in the position of a person with an ASD.

And that is nothing new.

That is just my opinion.

I agree. So, are you, therefore, advocating that ASD level 0 could exist as a stand-alone diagnosis? That would contradict the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria, but I agree wholeheartedly that the logic takes us there. Why even create an ASD level 0 if it means that no such diagnosis could exist?

Again, the cartel is convoluted.


Well of course. It lookd clearly to me like a brush it under the carpet tactic. Everybody has their problems right?

I would also like to add another interesting point that makes no sence.

Human life had been structured to require support. Nobody can live without a support structure. It is a community based environment. The most important, and biggest things require the most support. If there is no support structures in place for human kind, all there is, is a house of glass.

So what are we talking about here?
I just logically dismembered the whole DSM ASD support structure, and turned it into the same stuff that everyone else has to deal with.

Just for fun.



AspieUtah
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24 Nov 2014, 11:43 am

yournamehere wrote:
...I just logically dismembered the whole DSM ASD support structure, and turned it into the same stuff that everyone else has to deal with.

Just for fun.

Fun and logic is always a great combination.


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24 Nov 2014, 11:55 am

I can even twist it around, and make it backwards to make even more sence like this.

Level zero, which makes no sence, requires the most support, because those are the people that provide the most support for humankind on the ASD spectrum. Higher (number) levels on the ASD spectrum require support just like everyone else on the face of the planet, however their lives may provide less support for the environment, and need an environment provided for them in a more suitable, less stressful fashion, until such subjects can provide more support for its environment. Such fashionable environments may be required to be provided indefinitely.

Just another screwball idea off the top of my head.

I like to make stuff up. :D



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24 Nov 2014, 12:54 pm

Thanks, AspieUtah....how I got this far, I don't know.



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24 Nov 2014, 2:10 pm

1024 wrote:
Note that the present commotion in this thread is not surely relevant to the severity scale topic. It seems to me that many people have survived into adulthood, lived independently, and were then diagnosed with ASD. This suggests that the "requires support" condition is not interpreted as being precluded by living independently. Which is kind of logical: you can survive a flu without treatment, but that doesn't mean that it's not a disease, nor that you wouldn't have benefitted from some antipyretics.


There were many many times when - as the famous Beatles song goes - "I got by with a little help from my friends" (sometimes a lot). It was the most essential and effective means of support. I would have been cremated long ago without it.



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24 Nov 2014, 4:29 pm

wozeree wrote:
NiceCupOfTea wrote:
Amen to King_oni's post.

Kraftiekortie's analogy to MS is flawed, because autism does not go into remission. MS does. Crohn's does. Most diseases can go into remission or present without symptoms. Autism cannot.

And at 39 and unemployed and uneducated, I'm starting to get tired of being patronised to death by the clearly "successful" oldies who were able to mask their symptoms so brilliantly.


That's a mouthful and you really have no idea what you are talking about. Talk about patronizing! Every day is still a struggle and I'm 52 and gainfully employed. And yeah, I use the restroom to escape and cope sometimes. I even did that in HS a hundred years ago. I can't mask anything though, I am successful despite my problems because I work hard and don't sit around crying about how hard it is to be an Aspie and how nobody will feel sorry for me.

I flunked out of HS and went to College in my 40s. College was a struggle too, I flunked some classes and took them over until I passed them, but one semester I was on the Dean's List. Just be yourself and fight hard to get what you want and DO SOMETHING. Don't give up.


All right, m8, calm down. Have a pat on the head from me for being such a hero.



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24 Nov 2014, 9:20 pm

I'm an HFA guy, and I find it hard to redirect my stims, sometimes don't even try. This doesn't seem very accurate.


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24 Nov 2014, 9:44 pm

NiceCupOfTea wrote:
wozeree wrote:
NiceCupOfTea wrote:
Amen to King_oni's post.

Kraftiekortie's analogy to MS is flawed, because autism does not go into remission. MS does. Crohn's does. Most diseases can go into remission or present without symptoms. Autism cannot.

And at 39 and unemployed and uneducated, I'm starting to get tired of being patronised to death by the clearly "successful" oldies who were able to mask their symptoms so brilliantly.


That's a mouthful and you really have no idea what you are talking about. Talk about patronizing! Every day is still a struggle and I'm 52 and gainfully employed. And yeah, I use the restroom to escape and cope sometimes. I even did that in HS a hundred years ago. I can't mask anything though, I am successful despite my problems because I work hard and don't sit around crying about how hard it is to be an Aspie and how nobody will feel sorry for me.

I flunked out of HS and went to College in my 40s. College was a struggle too, I flunked some classes and took them over until I passed them, but one semester I was on the Dean's List. Just be yourself and fight hard to get what you want and DO SOMETHING. Don't give up.


All right, m8, calm down. Have a pat on the head from me for being such a hero.


Don't know what m8 is..have I just been insulted? Perhaps I was a bit excited, so I'll give you this one.

I'll I'm trying to say is that, if you want to have a certain life, you have to try to get it. I'm not being preachy or anything, it's just that it's sooooo easy to be overwhelmed and stop trying. Before you know it, you're 53 years old and it's a kid's world. Don't give up on yourself or your dreams.

One of the most admired people on this site, KoR, has a very difficult life and is profoundly disabled, but she's a beacon of light to a lot of people, me included. Doesn't have to be a job with pay, just something you love that contributes to the world so that you will not feel like you are nothing.

Ok, I'm done! :D

What's m8?

Where is our KoR?