Asperger's and high intelligence-- correlation or not?

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CryingTears15
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01 Dec 2014, 9:50 pm

Something that bugs me like crazy is when people assume that Aspie=intelligent. Or at least a high IQ. I always read that it is perfectly possible for an Aspie to have an average IQ. Like, for example, me.

I'm called smart, but my IQ is still high average and I still get upset with the stereotype of a "genius Aspie" all around. It makes me feel unworthy of the title, and in fear of disappointing other people.

An example is on TV tropes when someone theorized that L Lawliet from Death Note was an Aspie, because he was socially awkward and "highly intelligent." Regardless of whether or not you may subscribe to such a theory, (I don't), that is simply a bad argument. And yet, the intelligence was held up as core evidence!

Also. Aspies often have interests that may or may not become a well of information for them and make them appear knowledgeable and "smart" to others. (I love stories and so create information, which is very fantastical and not nearly as practically "impressive".)

So is this stereotype true? I've heard that Aspies have a higher IQ on average due to not including mentally disabled people in their group. This does not, however, mean that Aspies are likely to be above average. Is there a counterargument to this?



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01 Dec 2014, 10:13 pm

There was never a strong correlation, it was only imaginary. Asperger's is autism. The diagnosis of Asperger's was only given to an individual with over 70 IQ, and that diagnosis no longer exists.

There probably is a correlation between Asperger's and expertise, provided the individual is able to work in a field of their special interest (i.e. Temple Grandin).


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01 Dec 2014, 10:26 pm

I think if you look around you will find that there is a huge variance in intelligence in any population especially in ASD/Aspergers.

While it is true that there doesn't seem to be an intelligence upper limit on ASD/Aspergers, don't mistake that as being that ALL people with ASD/Aspergers are highly intelligent. There is an intelligence lower limit though which is average intelligence.

I personally don't bother to search the web for anything important unless I use google scholar and even then I normally make a trip to the library to get the bulk of my information. I find those to be more reliable and more accurate than blog posts, articles (unless from peer reviewed journals), and the likes commonly found on the web. :D



kraftiekortie
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01 Dec 2014, 10:41 pm

I'm Aspergian, and my IQ is 3.1416 on a good day.

Seriously, in order for one to have Asperger's under the DSM IV,

1. There must have not been any "speech delay."

2. There must have not been a "clinically significant delay in cognitive development." I would interpret that,
quite simplistically, as an IQ, at a minimum, one standard deviation or less below the "norm"--85 or above.



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01 Dec 2014, 11:07 pm

It is simply said that those with Asperger's tend to have IQ of average or above average.
Some are, obviously in the genius category in terms of IQ, but honestly, having a genius or high IQ means little if the person struggles to make use of it in a meaningful way.

I have an IQ of 160. It has not got me very far in life.
I would not concern yourself with it.
I used to feel like a failure because I was not born with a savant skill, when one book I was reading claimed that most with Asperger's had some kind of Savant skill.


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01 Dec 2014, 11:22 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm Aspergian, and my IQ is 3.1416 on a good day.

Seriously, in order for one to have Asperger's under the DSM IV,

1. There must have not been any "speech delay."

2. There must have not been a "clinically significant delay in cognitive development." I would interpret that,
quite simplistically, as an IQ, at a minimum, one standard deviation or less below the "norm"--85 or above.


I'll take blueberry please. :D



kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2014, 12:40 am

Would you settle for lemon meringue?



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02 Dec 2014, 12:44 am

I do believe there is a correlation between aspergers and high intelligence, but that should not be mistaken for all aspies having a higher IQ, or even on average aspies having higher IQ.

CryingTears15 wrote:
An example is on TV tropes when someone theorized that L Lawliet from Death Note was an Aspie, because he was socially awkward and "highly intelligent." Regardless of whether or not you may subscribe to such a theory, (I don't), that is simply a bad argument. And yet, the intelligence was held up as core evidence!

I'd say he is autistic, but for different reasons.


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02 Dec 2014, 3:42 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I'm Aspergian, and my IQ is 3.1416 on a good day.

You're an expert in circular reasoning, then.



kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2014, 11:10 am

The good thing about circular reasoning:

It brings you back, eventually to the origin of the "reasoning"--which means you can't forget where you came from.



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02 Dec 2014, 11:32 am

I think that it is possible that more people in the general population of Aspies have above-average intelligence than in the general population of "non-Aspies". Aspies who have IQ above average are more interesting and fascinating to me. I never had official IQ tests, but I suppose that at least my VIQ will be in above-average range.

I also think that many or maybe even most people with "nonverbal learning disability" are Aspies. NVLD is for me a type of aspieness and PDD, it is "oververbal" counterpart of picture or pattern thinking people with "classic" types of autism. The name NVLD is failure in my opinion. One of the signs of this pervasive developmental difference may be some sort "learning hyperability" due to well-developed verbal thinking, logic reasoning and verbatim memory. And visual-spatial deficits may be really mild, not always leading to serious problems in school. "Oververbal" PDDers are rather more flexible in thinking and have better theory of mind, but they still have a sort of ASD in my opinion, although I think that their brains are obviously different than brains of people with "classic" ASD. Aspies often have really good verbal or nonverbal thinking abilities with relative weakness in "second type of thinking" in my opinion.



kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2014, 11:36 am

I would say that I have "nonverbal learning disability."

Yep....I also have a belief that Aspies are relatively strong in verbal skills; whereas people with HFA are relatively strong in the visual realm.



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02 Dec 2014, 11:47 am

I think that in Northern America many Aspies are misdiagnosed as NLDers. "Overly developed" verbal skills are a form of Aspie talent in my opinion, other Aspies may have special abilities in visual thinking area and eidetic memory. I think that "NLD syndrome" is a type of Aspiedom which is seriously misnamed and misclassified.

I read about the results of IQ tests of two "important" ASers in Polish AS forum who have the diagnosis of ASsperger's syndrome since at least few years - one had VIQ 28 points higher than PIQ (PIQ<<VIQ), other has larger gap - VIQ was 57 points higher than PIQ (PIQ<<<VIQ). I think that in USA or Canada they may receive just NLD diagnosis, not AS(D) or PDD. I also think the same about myslef :) I personally named this phenomenon as "hyperlogia" (from Greek "hyper" - over and "logos" - word) to denote a pattern of well-developed verbal abilities such as early development of speech, naming of objects, reading, good syntax and grammar abilities. I even think that not everybody with hyperlogia have to be a verbal thinker. People with hyperlogic PDD/ASD tend to have significantly less "narrow" mind than people with "robotic-like" sorts of autism.



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02 Dec 2014, 1:28 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The good thing about circular reasoning:

It brings you back, eventually to the origin of the "reasoning"--which means you can't forget where you came from.


Entirely off topic but do you member the original Star Trek episode where one alien takes over the throttle of the Enterprise and engages warp 8 while his nemesis, another alien, takes over the helm and puts the Enterprise into a circular course. Scotty remarks "Captain Kirk! It appears we're going nowhere - really, really fast".

:D (Sorry - just had to throw that one into the mix).


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02 Dec 2014, 5:32 pm

I don't know what my IQ is. Never tested it. I have no idea if there's a correlation between autism and intelligence, but I would tend to think not. I don't think the symptoms of autism and low intelligence are linked.



kraftiekortie
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02 Dec 2014, 9:18 pm

Paradoxically, autism has been accused of hiding people's intelligence--as well as highlighting people's intelligence.