Trigger Warning: Carly Fleischmann Update

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Adamantium
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07 Dec 2014, 10:36 am

androbot01 wrote:
Swiper wrote:
"i cabnt typerc anymmyore ectt didfd thisds to meed brayiin is scrrammbellld needdc fdocttor helphgfi" - Carly

"This is carly's dad. all is fine. carly had ECT in march. since then she's been unable to type or go on FB. tonight has been the first words we'e heard from her since April! we're all with her and her doctor is on the case! thank you all for your kind words, prayers and concerns. this is actually a joyful time!"


I feel so bad for Carly. I think her Dad is a self-absorbed jerk. In the videos he shows a complete lack of understanding of autism and a disrespect for Carly. She actually asks for help in her post! I can't imagine how awful it must be for her to be trapped insider herself with her father as her care giver.


Yes. All is clearly not fine. That cry for help is haunting. Troubling. Hard not to keep thinking about.



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07 Dec 2014, 11:25 am

androbot01 wrote:
Swiper wrote:
"i cabnt typerc anymmyore ectt didfd thisds to meed brayiin is scrrammbellld needdc fdocttor helphgfi" - Carly

"This is carly's dad. all is fine. carly had ECT in march. since then she's been unable to type or go on FB. tonight has been the first words we'e heard from her since April! we're all with her and her doctor is on the case! thank you all for your kind words, prayers and concerns. this is actually a joyful time!"


I feel so bad for Carly. I think her Dad is a self-absorbed jerk. In the videos he shows a complete lack of understanding of autism and a disrespect for Carly. She actually asks for help in her post! I can't imagine how awful it must be for her to be trapped insider herself with her father as her care giver.


I'm glad I'm not the only one that notices this. As I said in other posts countless of times, I've read her book... and the way he acts towards her or about her is just awful. I can sense how much of a jerk he is about his daughter having a disability. I mean, I get it must be hard dealing with a severely-autistic child, but the way he handles it is so wrong.


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androbot01
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07 Dec 2014, 11:39 am

It is so disturbing that he responds to her specific request for a doctor and help, with "everything's fine," and "this is a joyous time." Talk about a disconnect.



Jensen
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07 Dec 2014, 1:19 pm

I know, that it can be used as the last resort to snap people out of it, and it is quite successful on people, who !only" suffer from severe depression, - but with people like Carly you have to think caaarefully before you put her through it. I hope, she will heal fast. Being completely non verbal must be terrible.


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InThisTogether
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07 Dec 2014, 1:52 pm

Adamantium wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
a doctor had convinced her that ECT would help with OCD


Thanks for this update, Vicky. I guess the question is why did this doctor think it would help and did he give her a realistic warning of risks?



First, I think it is tragic. I felt sick to my stomach when I read what she typed.

But then I started to wonder how involved she was in the choice.

And then, if she was involved in the choice, or even the sole author of it, whether or not she was given a list of the risks.

Then I thought of my friend's teenaged son. He would do ANYTHING right now to get rid of his OCD symptoms. And if he was told there was a 75% chance that something bad might happen, and a 25% chance that it might cure his symptoms, I think he would take the risk. He honestly does not believe that he will be able to live this way for the rest of his life, and nothing else has helped. The overwhelming and utter despair he feels due to the nature of his OCD is...unbearably intense. That is the only way I can describe it.

FWIW, I have seen ECT work with some patients. It is not the same as the ECT of the old days. But it doesn't work with everyone, and some people have serious negative effects. But I don't think it is fair for any of us to state what we would or wouldn't do, or what someone else should or shouldn't have done, if we have not been wearing the same shoes.

Imagine if Carly did make an informed decision to have ECT, even understanding the risks. When she regains her skills, what might she be reading on the internet? People's condemnation of her family? Statements that it was a bad decision? None of us knows why she had ECT. Perhaps she felt the risks were worth the potential benefits. Perhaps she was suffering in ways that she did not share in her public life. Robin Williams killed himself, but yet most people would describe him as funny and happy from what you could glean from his public persona.

I think we should all be sending Carly all of the strength we can spare and reserving judgment. None of us knows what happened. And some of the speculation could be pretty hard to digest if she ever chose to read it.


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07 Dec 2014, 3:17 pm

Question, why do some people assume Carly didn't make this choice on her own? To those who think this, why do you have this opinion?


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PlainsAspie
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07 Dec 2014, 3:26 pm

I was actually reading about the use of ECT for self-injurious behaviors in autistics. It's done under sedation, so they don't feel the pain while it happens. It isn't a Judge Rotenberg Center-type thing.

This shows a really sad side effect. I don't think we know enough facts about this case to make a value judgement yet, though.



Adamantium
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07 Dec 2014, 4:30 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
vickygleitz wrote:
a doctor had convinced her that ECT would help with OCD


Thanks for this update, Vicky. I guess the question is why did this doctor think it would help and did he give her a realistic warning of risks?



First, I think it is tragic. I felt sick to my stomach when I read what she typed.

But then I started to wonder how involved she was in the choice.

And then, if she was involved in the choice, or even the sole author of it, whether or not she was given a list of the risks.

Then I thought of my friend's teenaged son. He would do ANYTHING right now to get rid of his OCD symptoms. And if he was told there was a 75% chance that something bad might happen, and a 25% chance that it might cure his symptoms, I think he would take the risk. He honestly does not believe that he will be able to live this way for the rest of his life, and nothing else has helped. The overwhelming and utter despair he feels due to the nature of his OCD is...unbearably intense. That is the only way I can describe it.

FWIW, I have seen ECT work with some patients. It is not the same as the ECT of the old days. But it doesn't work with everyone, and some people have serious negative effects. But I don't think it is fair for any of us to state what we would or wouldn't do, or what someone else should or shouldn't have done, if we have not been wearing the same shoes.

Imagine if Carly did make an informed decision to have ECT, even understanding the risks. When she regains her skills, what might she be reading on the internet? People's condemnation of her family? Statements that it was a bad decision? None of us knows why she had ECT. Perhaps she felt the risks were worth the potential benefits. Perhaps she was suffering in ways that she did not share in her public life. Robin Williams killed himself, but yet most people would describe him as funny and happy from what you could glean from his public persona.

I think we should all be sending Carly all of the strength we can spare and reserving judgment. None of us knows what happened. And some of the speculation could be pretty hard to digest if she ever chose to read it.


This seems wise. I hope I did no harm in putting my thoughts in a public place.



886
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08 Dec 2014, 5:38 am

League_Girl wrote:
Question, why do some people assume Carly didn't make this choice on her own? To those who think this, why do you have this opinion?


I think the argument is she made the choice on her own, but her decision was made by bad advice and manipulation given by a doctor pushing his own agenda.


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08 Dec 2014, 2:54 pm

886 wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
Question, why do some people assume Carly didn't make this choice on her own? To those who think this, why do you have this opinion?


I think the argument is she made the choice on her own, but her decision was made by bad advice and manipulation given by a doctor pushing his own agenda.


Exactly. It seems to me like the doctor had convinced her this was a brilliant idea. To make matters worse, he didn't even bother to tell her what might happen if she did it. That's not very good medical advice for anyone at all.


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08 Dec 2014, 3:11 pm

Swiper wrote:
LokiofSassgard wrote:
How the hell is that joyful? I'd like to know what the frick he's thinking calling it joyful


I think he is referring to the fact that she's finally able to communicate at all again.


Judging by what she typed, she's hardly able to communicate and could do so better before the 'treatment' what she typed is barely legible that must really suck that she can't actually express herself now. Also how does anyone know if it even helped the OCD....I wasn't there maybe it was fully her choice I don't know but yeah doesn't seem it helped much of anything.


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09 Dec 2014, 9:32 am

Carly is one of the most famous autistic person on the world. She is very loved...



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09 Dec 2014, 7:47 pm

I don't think this treatment has ever surmounted to anything. It's an excuse to hurt people who aren't normal.


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24 Feb 2015, 12:56 pm

What happened to Carly Fleischmann? : an exclusive interview with her father
From Autism Daily Newscast
http://www.autismdailynewscast.com/happened-carly-fleischmann-exclusive-interview-father/23279/shanellis/


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andrethemoogle
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25 Feb 2015, 1:52 am

Her parents are idiots and should be punished for putting her through that, as well as the "therapists"

Sorry, but electric shock "therapy" is cruelty and does not work at all. It should be abolished and the people who perform it should be jailed. I don't care if my opinion is unpopular, but it's cruelty to me.



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25 Feb 2015, 9:32 am

andrethemoogle wrote:
Her parents are idiots and should be punished for putting her through that, as well as the "therapists"

Sorry, but electric shock "therapy" is cruelty and does not work at all. It should be abolished and the people who perform it should be jailed. I don't care if my opinion is unpopular, but it's cruelty to me.


I don't think your opinion is unpopular. As mentioned earlier in the thread electro shock is only recommended as a last resort for severe depression not OCD.

To bad Carly and Wrong Planet's own Kingdom of Rats voices have been at least temporarily silenced because they were great advocates for so called low functioning or severe autistics. I miss both


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