If there was an Autistic state would you migrate there?

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Would you move to a state for ASD people?
Yes 32%  32%  [ 28 ]
No 55%  55%  [ 48 ]
Maybe (state why) 14%  14%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 88

RichardJ
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06 Dec 2014, 3:50 pm

Persimmonpudding wrote:
RichardJ wrote:
Absolutely not! But not for the reasons most say.

I would not for the reason that an aspie society would obviously be an extreamly liberal/socialist society based on the viewpoints I see on this forum. I believe in a conservative, lassey-faire, free market, limited government society where taxes are low and personal freedom is high.

I am one of the few conservative autistics.

The US government is already very close to being a full progressive, socialist disaster. :x

Feel free to argue with me but that is my reason.
Forbes, a right-leaning business journal, ranks the top countries in the world for doing business. Why do I see so many socialist states at the top of that list?

Then again, the Nordic model is not conventionally socialist. Instead, the state acts as an intermediary between different groups, and their governments tend to be almost shockingly pro-business. In fact, under a center-right (for Scandinavia) "liberal-conservative" government, Denmark has one of the most relaxed employment-at-will systems in the world, thanks to a carefully crafted support-and-retraining system called "flexicurity."

On the other hand, it still pretty much defeats the idea that socialism and thriving business are mutually exclusive. Conversely, they seem to go hand-in-hand if you count the Nordic model.

When even a right-wing business journal is ranking one of the top ten most socialist countries in the world, Ireland, as the number one place in the world to do business, the argument against socialism seems to falter. Could it be that socialism not only gives us a better quality of life and cleaner air but also makes us rich? Amazing!


At the current time these countries are humming, but ten more years into the demographic transition they will not.

Their intitlement and social welfare programs are already pushing them into debt because the birth rate to support these programs monetarily is no longer high enough. Someone has to pay for these programs and that is currently China. But what happens I ask when China asks for their money or pulls the plug on loans?

Before Franklin Roosevelt and the new deal deficit spending was a no no unless in a wartime situation. Also, intitlement to the public was non existent and taxes were low.


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06 Dec 2014, 4:01 pm

If I had no social commitments in my home country, I'd consider it.


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06 Dec 2014, 4:23 pm

It depends on what rights such a nation would have.

RichardJ wrote:
I would not for the reason that an aspie society would obviously be an extreamly liberal/socialist society based on the viewpoints I see on this forum.
I am one of the few conservative autistics.

I want to keep my freedom of religion, speech, bearing arms, having fair trials, and not having the government stalk me all the time.
Perhaps we could secede and form a nation for more conservative aspies.
The flag has to have a dragon on it and the terrain needs to have coasts, big mountains, deserts, forests and swamps for lots of resources and scenery.



Persimmonpudding
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06 Dec 2014, 5:29 pm

RichardJ wrote:
Persimmonpudding wrote:
RichardJ wrote:
Absolutely not! But not for the reasons most say.

I would not for the reason that an aspie society would obviously be an extreamly liberal/socialist society based on the viewpoints I see on this forum. I believe in a conservative, lassey-faire, free market, limited government society where taxes are low and personal freedom is high.

I am one of the few conservative autistics.

The US government is already very close to being a full progressive, socialist disaster. :x

Feel free to argue with me but that is my reason.
Forbes, a right-leaning business journal, ranks the top countries in the world for doing business. Why do I see so many socialist states at the top of that list?

Then again, the Nordic model is not conventionally socialist. Instead, the state acts as an intermediary between different groups, and their governments tend to be almost shockingly pro-business. In fact, under a center-right (for Scandinavia) "liberal-conservative" government, Denmark has one of the most relaxed employment-at-will systems in the world, thanks to a carefully crafted support-and-retraining system called "flexicurity."

On the other hand, it still pretty much defeats the idea that socialism and thriving business are mutually exclusive. Conversely, they seem to go hand-in-hand if you count the Nordic model.

When even a right-wing business journal is ranking one of the top ten most socialist countries in the world, Ireland, as the number one place in the world to do business, the argument against socialism seems to falter. Could it be that socialism not only gives us a better quality of life and cleaner air but also makes us rich? Amazing!


At the current time these countries are humming, but ten more years into the demographic transition they will not.

Their intitlement and social welfare programs are already pushing them into debt because the birth rate to support these programs monetarily is no longer high enough.
More prosperous countries tend to have lower birth rates, in general, which is a good thing.

Quote:
Someone has to pay for these programs and that is currently China. But what happens I ask when China asks for their money or pulls the plug on loans?
China's debt is also pretty high:

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21625785-its-debt-will-not-drag-down-world-economy-it-risks-zombifying-countrys-financial

Quote:
Before Franklin Roosevelt and the new deal deficit spending was a no no unless in a wartime situation. Also, intitlement to the public was non existent and taxes were low.
Before FDR, we were in a depression over which a series of conservatives presided.

Catastrophe seems to follow conservatives like a suck-egg pup.



Persimmonpudding
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06 Dec 2014, 7:03 pm

AntDog wrote:
It depends on what rights such a nation would have.
RichardJ wrote:
I would not for the reason that an aspie society would obviously be an extreamly liberal/socialist society based on the viewpoints I see on this forum.
I am one of the few conservative autistics.

I want to keep my freedom of religion, speech, bearing arms, having fair trials, and not having the government stalk me all the time.
Perhaps we could secede and form a nation for more conservative aspies.
The flag has to have a dragon on it and the terrain needs to have coasts, big mountains, deserts, forests and swamps for lots of resources and scenery.
Your mountains are being destroyed along with everything else.

And "freedom of speech"? Okay, you remember the Patriot Act, right? That was passed during a time when conservatives controlled two of three branches of government.

Conservative governments make me think "Mongolian horde" more than anything else.



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07 Dec 2014, 12:53 am

thomas81 wrote:
I don't buy this idea that we can't live without NTs. The only circumstances that we need NTs are to deal with conditions and narratives CREATED BY NTs. On our own, we would find a way to work things out, and what is more, do it better IMO.


As this thread shows and every thread to date shows on this similar topic and almost every other topic, folks on the spectrum are JUST AS DIVERSE WITHIN THE SPECTRUM AS THEY ARE in some imaginary gray area of so called NT VS Autism Spectrum folks.

And beyond that science shows 10 to 15 percent of the general population shares similar Autistic like traits in a broader Autism Phenotype and potentially up to 30 percent of the population with at least one trait, and of course research shows that genetic associations are spread out through the general population as well.

There is no REALISTIC way to do this, and every time it comes up there are almost an infinite number of exclusions that will make A person say HELL NO I am not going to do it, unless you do it my way.

Well, I for one am perfectly satisfied with the freedoms I have in the GOOD OLE USA AS IS, AS I CAN DO INCREDIBLY NEURODIVERSE STUFF AGAINST THE REGULAR SOCIAL NORM, TOTALLY legally and PROTECTED BY THE LAW.

I CAN USE MY ADA ACCOMMODATION FOR REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION TO DANCE walk a style of martial arts and ballet almost everywhere I go, per the general public, by just going to general management AND ASSERTING MY RIGHTS AS U.S. CITIZEN FOR REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION, PER 'AUTISTIC STIMMING RIGHTS', AND I also use my spinal stenosis, CONGENITALLY fused T-6 vertebrae, and severe SPINAL degenerative arthritis as another REASON MANAGEMENT MUST GIVE ME LEGAL AND AUTHORIZED REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION.

And on top of that the young folks love it, and video tape me everywhere I go, making me so-called famous on Facebook in their words NOT MINE, AS I DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT BEING FAMOUS, as it just frigging feels good and takes away ALL THE PAIN AND DISCOMFORT IF I DIDN'T GET TO STIM AND DANCE THIS WAY.

The older prudish fundie Christian folks not so much, as a few have likened my dancing to evil, and at least one person thought I was possessed by an evil spirit.

HAHA, BOY did they find out that was a big mistake after I flooded them with thousands of VERBAL words in AROUND 30 minutes as to all the factual and religious scholarly reasons IT WAS NOT EVIL, EVEN IN TRUE RELIGIOUS EYES, PER FULL CHRISTIANITY ITSELF AS THE REAL THING, NOT THE MYTH CRAP.

SERIOUSLY here AS THE EVIDENCE in all these kind of threads conclusively suggest there is only one true autistic society that will work all the time, and THAT IS A SOCIETY OF ONE.

So yeah, my society is FRED society and in that society as a 54 year old dude I can go as far as Michelangelo style Nude 54 year-old male Renaissance selfie style flesh and blood art, on restricted blog way, as my legal right to freedom of speech and the SUPREME COURT BACKS ME UP in the good 'ole USA.

And as I'm sure you now by now, many folks on the spectrum share unique special interests that make people in the REAL WORLD SAY WTF, and yes, of course, other Autistic Folks too, as strange is strange, it's just that simple.

I ENJOY THE WTF'S IN LIFE, as they don't scare me, and FRED society truly free in the good 'ole USA, is ENOUGH FOR ME.

I'M truly sorry if you are having a hard time in your culture adapting and finding a place where you can feel totally comfortable in the culture you CAN potentially make for yourself.

But at least in the U.S. an autistic person WHO STANDS UP FOR THEIR LEGAL rights, FIRM AND STRONG, CAN GET THEIR FRIGGING WAY, NO MATTER HOW STRANGE THE HERD THINKS it is.

I revel in being DIFFERENT AND REFUSE TO CONFORM TO ANY PERSON'S WAY.

I DON'T have a thousand Facebook friends, but I do have a few score that frigging GETS ME, JUST AS IS.

AND MUCH MORE IN REAL LIFE, AS SOME FOLKS LIKE TO 'DANCE TOTALLY NAKED' among the TRULY FREE SPIRITED ONES IN THE DANCE OF LIFE.

EVERYONE is neurodiverse, and when one figures that out and just LIVES WITH IT, AS IS, THEN THEY CAN BE FREE, AND AGAIN, AT LEAST, where I live for sure and hope you find similar success in your life wherever you live or move too, too,

But it just is NOT gonna work with the CATS that live here.

My cat is happy going his own way, and SO AM I.

And this is the worst place I have ever been to, yes this site and other so-called autistic communities, online, to attempt to get along with any herd anywhere in life online or off, PER WAYS OF TRUE EMPATHIC CONNECTION AS SIMPLE AS SAYING THANK YOU FOR A COMPLIMENT, I'M SORRY FOR MISTAKES, OR AVOIDING PERSONAL ATTACKS, and I am extremely experienced iN REAL LIFE DIRECTLY interacting FACE TO FACE with tens of thousands of people over 2 decades working with the general public and now OVER A YEAR, IN NON-VERBAL WAYS AS A PUBLIC TOTALLY FREE LITERAL DANCER OF LIFE, WITH LITERALLY OVER ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE AT LEAST, as no crowd is too large for me now, IN EXHIBITION OF TOTALLY FREE HUMAN DANCE.

And with literally millions of words all over the Internet like a FRED Tsunami. ;)

LIFE IS A REALLY LONG ROAD, FOR THOSE WHO hang IN it, but once one gets THEIR way of simply being THEM wherever THEY are and seriously accepting THEM self as is, no matter what anyone thinks, then anyone autistic or not, CAN BE FREE, AS IF IT IS TO BE, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN UP TO ME, NO MATTER WHO ME IS in the longest run of life, as eventually MOST all of 'us', does it alone, with others too.

And hell no as far as I know it's not easy, and at least for me it's JUST LIKE OR WORSE THAN THAT MYTH OF JOB, BUT WHEN sweet success finally DOES GET HERE, even if it takes almost five and a half decades like me, that makes all the attempts at bullying and real life physical and emotional pain sweet tears of eventual bliss in basic human freedom, once attained as truly ALL THERE IS, IS NOW, and for me ALL THE PAIN OF THE PAST, IS NON-EXISTANT, AS NO ONE GETS TO TAKE MY FREEDOM AWAY EVER NOW, AS I dance walk my OWNED WAY. :)


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07 Dec 2014, 4:01 am

thomas81 wrote:
I don't buy this idea that we can't live without NTs. The only circumstances that we need NTs are to deal with conditions and narratives CREATED BY NTs. On our own, we would find a way to work things out, and what is more, do it better IMO.



There is no such thing as NTs.

Just becuase you are on the spectrum doesn't mean you are like me or we would get on. Aslo ASD may have a in impact on personality but it is not the whole story.

I think the whole idea of an ASD state is as flawed as most of those supremacy movements, such as the Ayan Brotherhood of Luis Farrakhan.



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07 Dec 2014, 4:10 am

thomas81 wrote:
I don't buy this idea that we can't live without NTs. The only circumstances that we need NTs are to deal with conditions and narratives CREATED BY NTs. On our own, we would find a way to work things out, and what is more, do it better IMO.



There is no such thing as NTs.

Just becuase you are on the spectrum doesn't mean you are like me or we would get on. Aslo ASD may have a in impact on personality but it is not the whole story.

I think the whole idea of an ASD state is as flawed as most of those supremacy/isolationist movements, such as the Ayan Brotherhood of Luis Farrakhan.



thomas81
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07 Dec 2014, 4:11 am

BenderRodriguez wrote:
This keeps popping up and is usually full of nebulous, utopic and very vague ideas, so much for "aspies are rational and pragmatic" myth :D

At least this one is one is short and to the point, but since you didn't elaborate on your vision, thomas, could you answer something that always remains unclear or turns Godwin-like in such discussions: what do you do with the NT spouses and kids?

I think that NT spouses and kids should be allowed to stay if they want. My theory is that the autistic majority would be renewed from immigration. There would always be autistic people being born in NT majority countries that want to move there.


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thomas81
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07 Dec 2014, 4:17 am

0_equals_true wrote:


There is no such thing as NTs.

If we're talking about people without a diagnosable neurological condition, yes there is.
0_equals_true wrote:
Just becuase you are on the spectrum doesn't mean you are like me or we would get on. Aslo ASD may have a in impact on personality but it is not the whole story.

Never the point.

People are often telling foreign immigrants "If you don't like it here, then go back to [insert country]". What can we do in the same situation? I honestly believe a lot of our problems are down to NT dictated social norms and cultural narratives. So here is a quick fix solution.
0_equals_true wrote:
I think the whole idea of an ASD state is as flawed as most of those supremacy/isolationist movements, such as the Ayan Brotherhood of Luis Farrakhan.

Its flawed to talk about giving seperatist states to already empowered demographics. Not to disempowered minorities, assuming all other factors are equal and amicable.


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07 Dec 2014, 7:35 am

:roll:

Why not work to build an Autist phyle, with enclaves? Nation-states are so passe...


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chagya
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07 Dec 2014, 8:21 am

Why do Conservatives here keep perpetuating this falsehood that unless there is full Conservative control that there will be no religious freedom, no free speech, no right to bear arms, "government stalking" etc? I do not see anyone trying to close or eliminate churches or your right to worship. Despite the lies to the contrary your right to bear arms would not be taken away, it would just be regulated more than you would like to see. No one is trying to stop you from speaking your mind. People would be much more likely to exist together were it not for all the lies and BS about Liberal government It seems like you want zero regulations and laws with the misguided belief that if only everyone could just do and say anything they please, arm yourselves to the hilt and run businesses with absolutely zero oversight with bare minimum taxation that you could have half of what you now enjoy in a "civilized society". Infrastructure crumbling and in decay because no one is willing to do what is necessary to maintain roads, bridges and transportation systems, which is, has and always will be through taxation. Conservative politicians trying to decimate our education system, creating a society of mindless, uneducated zombies. You want to create some form of neanderthal, dog eat dog, only the strong survive and screw everyone else if they need help. That is not a civilized society, but I don't think these Conservatives care about anything civilized. You are no better, or more worthy than anyone else in this world, regardless how hard you think you work or how much smarter you think you are than us lowly Liberals. Your society would not work, at least not unless you are going to regulate and restrict population. Every day would be a literal street war just to get through a 24 hour period. Conservatives have this notion that this culture would be just fine, because of course THEY will always prevail, because of just having more firepower. Your society would not be a democracy, or a republic, or anything where freedom is for everyone. In your society only the strong and well armed would be free. You would purge society of the weak and frail and mentally inept. You have no desire for coexistence, you want total domination, by force if necessary but you would never call your own self built society a dictatorship, would you?

You live in a tv fantasy land.



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07 Dec 2014, 11:39 am

DOWNSIDE: an all autistic country wouldn't be able to function.

UPSIDE: None.

Based on the above: I don't see any reason to move to such a place.



The_Walrus
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07 Dec 2014, 12:27 pm

I don't want to live somewhere where nearly everybody has poor social skills.



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07 Dec 2014, 1:09 pm

No. I don't connect with other autistic people any better than I do non-autistic people, so nothing would be different.



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07 Dec 2014, 1:13 pm

I’m sure a Playground Bully State would emerge and kick the Autistic State’s ass.


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