Why don't people want to be friends first?

Page 1 of 6 [ 94 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

CrinklyCrustacean
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,284

09 Dec 2014, 4:03 am

Why is it so rare for relationships to grow out of being friends? I know this is applying logic to emotions, but I don't understand why it is somehow impossible for most people, as a quick look round the web suggests. If you are friends with someone you get to see their personality play out over a long period, and can make more accurate judgments as to whether or not you are compatible for a relationship. If you take the classic dating route of several dates consisting of dinner and a movie or something like that, then you're having to make big decisions based on much less information, and less reliable information to boot. I'm not suggesting people should take the attitude of, "I really fancy you. Let's be friends and see how it goes," but instead something more along the lines of, "We've been friends for a while, we have a lot of things in common and I fancy you. Can we make it work as a relationship?" Is it really such a bad thing to ask out your friends?



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,872
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

09 Dec 2014, 4:27 am

A huge sweeping generalization but I have seen it too much:

Based on my observation, males are way way way way way more capable to fall in love with friends.
Females are way way way way way less likely to do so, females judge males' attractiveness value within the first encounter.

And this often leads to drama; the female often thinks the male was exploiting friendship to get to "her pants" - while this is true in some cases, in most cases, and what the typical female brain doesn't often understand that males are very likely to develop feelings/attraction toward a female over time, which weren't necessarily there before at all.

It's usually females, not males, that you hear them saying things like : He has been a friend for too long, its too late...etc And it's usually females who use terms like "there was no Chemistry" for a first date. That's because he was never seen attractive to her in the first place - end of story, no room for changing this status.

Males are way more likely to give second chances for 2nd, 3rd ....dates before final decision - however this is usually way beyond the female's final decision which is usually after 1st date.



hurtloam
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,743
Location: Eyjafjallajökull

09 Dec 2014, 5:16 am

Because hormones!

We have a tendency to want to do what our hormones tell us to do and if our body find someone chemically attractive then we will want a romantic relationship with that person.

Also, impatience.

It takes time to develop a relationship from a friendship. We get impatient and want to find physical fulfillment sometimes over all other things that are more logical.

Human bodies are funny that way.



nomoretears
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 208

09 Dec 2014, 8:49 am

If we are friends, then we are friends. For me, its about meaning what I say. Also, id never want to befriend a man im attracted to.

If im looking for male friends, I probably do not want to date. I dont want the drama of sex or romance

Ive learned to never befriend a man im not attracted to. Logically, that means having no male friends. Ive seen women successfully have male friends, but those men just happened to be really hot. Theres a mutual attraction. These arent friends but suitors aka potential mates. These are men in her orbit who she may be interested in dating.

Ive learned the hard way not to have male friends. Ive tried in the past, and that resulted in me being sexually harassed and stalked. In short, it can be dangerous. Its easy for s man to misinterpret innocent gestures (walking together, talking, texting, etc) as signs of romantic interest. If a man approaches you first, he is most likely attracted to you. Its very easy for a man to be attracted to a woman. Women are more likely to mean lets be friends. Men are more flexible (sex).

Science has proven that often men choose female friends based on attractiveness. Thats not friendship



nomoretears
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 208

09 Dec 2014, 9:15 am

CrinklyCrustacean wrote:
Why is it so rare for relationships to grow out of being friends? I know this is applying logic to emotions, but I don't understand why it is somehow impossible for most people, as a quick look round the web suggests. If you are friends with someone you get to see their personality play out over a long period, and can make more accurate judgments as to whether or not you are compatible for a relationship. If you take the classic dating route of several dates consisting of dinner and a movie or something like that, then you're having to make big decisions based on much less information, and less reliable information to boot. I'm not suggesting people should take the attitude of, "I really fancy you. Let's be friends and see how it goes," but instead something more along the lines of, "We've been friends for a while, we have a lot of things in common and I fancy you. Can we make it work as a relationship?" Is it really such a bad thing to ask out your friends?


To me,that sounds more like searching for a suitor. It sounds like dating but at a slower pace.
Also, i've never seen a male friend's personality long term. Usually, they will bring up sex in a few weeks. The difference between dating a man and being his friend is that former brings up sex on the first date. The latter brings up sex after a few weeks. There's no long term getting to know you period either way in my experience. A sexual outburst is likely.



Vomelche
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 789
Location: Ontario

09 Dec 2014, 10:50 am

The way I see it generally a man and a woman cannot be close friends, it always leads to something more (because hormones). I don't know anyone who has a friendship like that, although I am sure there may be exceptions.

Also, in Western culture people prefer to get down to business quickly. In Europe it was a bit different, I don't know about now though, things changed everywhere.



sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

10 Dec 2014, 12:03 am

nomoretears wrote:
If we are friends, then we are friends.


similar but as a guy. I have friend/sibling type love and romantic/sexual love. theres a giant wall between them. theres no cross roads, so if you enter in one gate plan to be on that road until the end.
yet most people on here can't seem to understand that :(

nomoretears wrote:

To me,that sounds more like searching for a suitor. It sounds like dating but at a slower pace.
Also, i've never seen a male friend's personality long term. Usually, they will bring up sex in a few weeks. The difference between dating a man and being his friend is that former brings up sex on the first date. The latter brings up sex after a few weeks. There's no long term getting to know you period either way in my experience. A sexual outburst is likely.


sounds like you've had more/less social understanding guys/confident guys. I don't bring up sex for a while unless i've felt safe with the person or she bring sit up first. I've had women bring it up right away though.



yellowtamarin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Sep 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,763
Location: Australia

10 Dec 2014, 3:02 am

hurtloam wrote:
Because hormones!

We have a tendency to want to do what our hormones tell us to do and if our body find someone chemically attractive then we will want a romantic relationship with that person.

Also, impatience.

It takes time to develop a relationship from a friendship. We get impatient and want to find physical fulfillment sometimes over all other things that are more logical.

Human bodies are funny that way.

This. Hormones. If I'm attracted so someone, I don't want to wait around "getting to know them" for months on end before something physical happens.

I've tried on two occasions in my life to become romantic with a close friend. Both relationships lasted about a week, and I bailed out because it felt weird and wrong (kinda like the "feels like kissing my brother" scenario), the lust hormones just weren't there, and couldn't be stirred up. In both cases it was rather devastating for me because I really cared for them and wanted to make it work. But there was nothing I could do.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

10 Dec 2014, 9:31 am

Aaaahhh….there it is… I've been looking for this for a while.

We're talking about two completely different kinds of relationships here in the romantic/intimate department.

If something is lust-driven or physically-driven, it's more liable to fizzle once the attraction is lost or replaced. I think the reverse is certainly possible--it starts as a physical relationship and develops into something more meaningful. A lot of relationships do form that way.

But I don't think it's effective for everyone. Even relationships that start out as purely physical just don't happen unless the two people involved are somehow acquainted beforehand. The TYPE of person who would jump into bed with a perfect stranger is generally not the type of person I'd want to try to make it with long-term.

The way my wife and I got together right at first was we were both coming out of hideously awful relationships and just needed to blow off some steam. Y'know what happened shortly after we DID become romantically involved? We broke up. Oh, and she wasn't the one to flake out on me…I flaked out on her. We tried the "just friends" thing for several months even when we were seeing other people. We really were the best partners for each other, and we wouldn't have known that quite as well if we hadn't had the tight friendship throughout. She'll tell you she knew it before I did. I still haven't figured it out…I think maybe I was mostly in denial the whole time, but I eventually came to the conclusion I didn't want to be with anyone else.

It's not friendship that necessarily gets people together. It's what KEEPS people together. If you have that friends-first relationship, it's going to be easier to keep things together because you relate on a level not many people do anymore.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

10 Dec 2014, 9:48 am

yellowtamarin wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Because hormones!

We have a tendency to want to do what our hormones tell us to do and if our body find someone chemically attractive then we will want a romantic relationship with that person.

Also, impatience.

It takes time to develop a relationship from a friendship. We get impatient and want to find physical fulfillment sometimes over all other things that are more logical.

Human bodies are funny that way.

This. Hormones. If I'm attracted so someone, I don't want to wait around "getting to know them" for months on end before something physical happens.

I've tried on two occasions in my life to become romantic with a close friend. Both relationships lasted about a week, and I bailed out because it felt weird and wrong (kinda like the "feels like kissing my brother" scenario), the lust hormones just weren't there, and couldn't be stirred up. In both cases it was rather devastating for me because I really cared for them and wanted to make it work. But there was nothing I could do.

I think you can have the best of both worlds, though. If you were friends with enough people over a period of time, could there not be at least a small number you'd be attracted to? Also, there's a distinction between just wanting someone for the purpose of sexual gratification and wanting someone for other things you find important. Love and intimacy are only two components of a LTR. It's never that simple.

In your case, it just wasn't cooking. I don't think anyone can judge you for that. If someone isn't the total package, no amount of caring for them is going to fix it.



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,872
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

10 Dec 2014, 11:30 am

yellowtamarin wrote:
hurtloam wrote:
Because hormones!

We have a tendency to want to do what our hormones tell us to do and if our body find someone chemically attractive then we will want a romantic relationship with that person.

Also, impatience.

It takes time to develop a relationship from a friendship. We get impatient and want to find physical fulfillment sometimes over all other things that are more logical.

Human bodies are funny that way.

This. Hormones. If I'm attracted so someone, I don't want to wait around "getting to know them" for months on end before something physical happens.

I've tried on two occasions in my life to become romantic with a close friend. Both relationships lasted about a week, and I bailed out because it felt weird and wrong (kinda like the "feels like kissing my brother" scenario), the lust hormones just weren't there, and couldn't be stirred up. In both cases it was rather devastating for me because I really cared for them and wanted to make it work. But there was nothing I could do.



See? Only women say this stuff.

"like a brother", "it feels weird" and all this irrational talk. :p

I firmly believe that women are not capable to fall for close friends while men can. Men often have no problem to think of female close friends as potential romance while the opposite is quasi impossible.



Vomelche
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 789
Location: Ontario

10 Dec 2014, 12:57 pm

The thing with hormones though is that attractiveness is subjective to circumstance. One day you may find a person really attractive, another day you hardly notice them. I think its best to start with a short term relationship, to see if things work out overall. Even couples have their ups and downs.



Comp_Geek_573
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Sep 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 699

10 Dec 2014, 5:08 pm

I for sure want to know a woman well before I pursue any kind of physical relationship, no matter how attractive she is! I don't think there's any such thing as a woman who's not actually blood-related to me feeling too much like a "sister" for me to ****. The only women I actually feel that way towards are actual family.

I suppose I could discuss this issue with someone I consider a friend before I become too much like a "brother" to her if I'm attracted to her...


_________________
Your Aspie score: 98 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 103 of 200
You seem to have both Aspie and neurotypical traits
AQ: 33


The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,872
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

11 Dec 2014, 3:49 am

Comp_Geek_573 wrote:
I for sure want to know a woman well before I pursue any kind of physical relationship, no matter how attractive she is! I don't think there's any such thing as a woman who's not actually blood-related to me feeling too much like a "sister" for me to ****. The only women I actually feel that way towards are actual family.

I suppose I could discuss this issue with someone I consider a friend before I become too much like a "brother" to her if I'm attracted to her...


That's because you are male, we males are like this, we don't usually "Sisterize" female friends, unless she is really an adopted sister who had been living with us since childhood.

On the other hand, women are much more likely to "brotherize" friends and guys in general for any reason - and it's still very puzzling and fascinating to me how they brotherize guys for funny reasons.

For example: height, I have heard so many women saying that they can't date guys shorter than them because it feels like "dating my little brother", it is actually the typical response when they are asked about height, and it's illogical: many of them have a bigger brother too so why it doesn't feel like "dating the big brother" while dating a taller guy? Again, it's just another irrationality of the endless of irrationalities that I so see coming from the womanfolk in my dating pool *sigh*. I am being bluntly honest here, WP women, I am really sorry.

- I have NEVER heard men saying that they feel it's like dating a sister or mother if the girl is tall. I had a foreplay recently with a significantly taller girl, and it didn't feel like being with a sister - at any moment, she didn't too but she's of the very very rare minority.

They can also brotherize you for funnier reasons, for example if you have a head shape similar to their brother, you're brotherized. lol


I myself, often developed feelings (and to start seeing her attractive) toward a girl I have known for quite a time, and only AFTER knowing her for a time, but I have never known in my life a girl doing that, they always develop feelings pretty fast for someone new entering their life, within a couple of months at most. I really wonder why we males are always accused and portrayed as the more superficial and visual gender, I am not seeing it's the case really.



Vomelche
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 789
Location: Ontario

11 Dec 2014, 3:07 pm

This brotherizing thing might also be biological. Women may be wired to be family oriented, so they develop certain connections with people. So, sometimes they have to distinguish between a mate and someone who is familial.

That being said, I don't think being brotherized is necessarily a bad thing. If a woman is comfortable with you its a sign of some attraction. This is also where friendzoning and game comes into play. There are things a man can do to appear more or less attractive when he approaches a woman or she approaches him (..hormones).



Cafeaulait
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,537
Location: Europe

11 Dec 2014, 3:18 pm

I feel like guys are attracted to me and comfortable around me but somehow they never want and treat me as a girlfriend. Could I just be too boring?