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Have you explored/researched the broad autism phenotype thoroughly?
Yes 47%  47%  [ 14 ]
No 53%  53%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 30

kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2014, 11:41 am

I would have probably been considered LFA until about age 5.

Temple Grandin seemed LFA when she was very young.

You should read a book called "Elijah's Cup." It details the transition from LFA to Asperger's in a child named Elijah. I actually met the mother.



AspieUtah
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18 Dec 2014, 11:44 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
...You should read a book called "Elijah's Cup." It details the transition from LFA to Asperger's in a child named Elijah. I actually met the mother.

Hm, that was a vague reference. :D

Was the mother your mother, and were you Elijah?


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kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2014, 11:50 am

Nope...this kid is about 25 now. He's apparently working as a waiter in a Upstate New York town.

I met the mother at an autism function in my alma-mater.

It wasn't a bestseller--but it sold fairly well.



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18 Dec 2014, 11:59 am

btbnnyr wrote:
As we learn more about different causes of autism, I think that autism will narrow rather than broaden, such that disorders like Rett go off autism spectrum (already happened), then Fragile X autism-like symptoms currently diagnosed as autism being distinct from non-Fragile X autism (past few years research trending this way), then same for other genetic disorders, perhaps same idea for environmentally-induced symptomps, etc etc etc, until what is autism is caused by combinations of common genetic variants causing similar traits in general population. There will also be improvements distinguishing autism from intellectual disability and autism from neurotypical, so boundaries of autism will change at low-functioning and high-functioning ends. I think the broadening phase was the DSM-IV, and near future is refining/distinguishing phase.


This is consistent with the sense that I got from my reading on autism. It seems to me likely that in addition to a variety of specific etiologies resulting in distinct diagnoses there is a chance that something like the Aspergers group may re-emerge at the high functioning end. It seems unlikely to me that the label for people at the high functioning end that shades into BAP will be called "neurotypical."

It seems to me that the concept of neurotypical may expand with the recognition of the diversity of "normal" variation, but the impairments people have at the high end are real and require a structure for treatmet/services and this will necessitate some kind of labeling.



coschristi
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18 Dec 2014, 1:07 pm

at some point i think that reliance on the term "spectrum" will prove to be to non-definitive for diagnostic use. there are many conditions/events that display wide ranges of severity but require varied "gradings" in order to be understood in proper context. for example:
1. if the media reported that "a community has been devestated by a storm on the tornado spectrum", that information would be useless! instead they report that "a community has been devestated by an F4 or F5 tornado"
2. if a nurse was instructed by a doctor to provide care for "the patient in room 5 with a "burn spectrum injury" how would she/he know what dressings or treatments to prepare? the care required for a 1st degree burn is much different than for a 3rd degree burn!

other examples include "stage 4 cancer" or "5 alarm fire"..

although there IS a broad spectrum of autistic symptoms, reliance on the word "spectrum" is misleading; if anything, it would be more accurate to at least use the Bell Curve!


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"Ah! Then there are no people on the Earth?" "This is the desert. There are no people in the desert. The Earth is large," said the snake. The little prince sat down on a stone & raised his eyes toward the sky.
"I wonder," he said, "whether the stars are set alight in heaven so that one day each one of us may find his own again... Look at my planet. It is right there above us. But how far away it is!" ... And they were both silent.
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The little prince smiled. "You are not very powerful. You haven't even any feet. You cannot even travel..."

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He twined himself around the little prince's ankle, like a golden bracelet. "Whomever I touch, I send back to the earth from whence he came," the snake spoke again. "But you are innocent and true, and you come from a star..."
"The Little Prince", by Antoine de Saint−Exupery


btbnnyr
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18 Dec 2014, 2:52 pm

Regarding the bloomer population that presents with severe autistic traits in childhood, but the traits moderate into HFA by teenage years, I consider these children always HFA, because they lacked intellectual disability all along, but only had severe autistic traits, while LFA children had both severe autistic traits and intellectual disability. Cognitive ability is most key to childhood development and adult presentation, there is no other factor that comes close to its importance.

In most cases I have heard of and my own, blooming occurs with fast language acquisition that allows functional communication, followed by social behaviors appearing to catch up to those who had milder autistic traits in childhood, but the social cognition didn't catch up in my case, esp. implicit social cognition, the fast automatic responses that people are not aware of themselves making and can't describe as eggsplicit thought processes.


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btbnnyr
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18 Dec 2014, 3:36 pm

Another interesting thing about "complex autism" is that the autistic-like traits are likely from identifiable morphological brain anomalies not caused by genetics but something going highly off-course during embryonic/fetal development, similar to other organs or limbs not developing normally, but not genetically programmed to do so like six fingers. This is likely to be quite distinct from autism caused by combinations of many inherited alleles.


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18 Dec 2014, 3:51 pm

Yes, that distinction has lacked much serious attention (or any thoughtful attention basically).



kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2014, 7:12 pm

Epigenetics.....

BTTBNNYR: Have you encountered many "bloomers" in your work. I think I'm quite possibly one of those "bloomers." When I did start to speak at age 5 1/2, I underwent rapid progress. Apparently, I was speaking like "all kids my age" within months. However, I was Aspergian socially all through my childhood.

I went from being totally dependent right before I turned 5, to being able to go out, get soda and potato chips, and get the correct change by about age 5 3/4. Soon afterwards, my father entrusted me with getting the newspaper every Sunday. I got 25 cents a week allowance when I was six years old. Age six was also when I learned how to cross the street properly.



btbnnyr
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18 Dec 2014, 7:46 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Epigenetics.....

BTTBNNYR: Have you encountered many "bloomers" in your work. I think I'm quite possibly one of those "bloomers." When I did start to speak at age 5 1/2, I underwent rapid progress. Apparently, I was speaking like "all kids my age" within months. However, I was Aspergian socially all through my childhood.

I went from being totally dependent right before I turned 5, to being able to go out, get soda and potato chips, and get the correct change by about age 5 3/4. Soon afterwards, my father entrusted me with getting the newspaper every Sunday. I got 25 cents a week allowance when I was six years old. Age six was also when I learned how to cross the street properly.


I am not sure if I have met any, as I did not ask most people the details of their childhoods. I know that one of my research participants had severe autistic traits in childhood, and since he is verbally fluent and high-functioning as a young adult, I think that he was possibly a bloomer, but I don't know about the age.

I bloomed from ages 8 to 10. And it seems like Norny's friend did in a similar range too. But I was always quite high-functioning non-socially in terms of independence, motor skills, and EF.


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kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2014, 7:51 pm

I was very low-functioning until I started to speak--in all modalities. I couldn't dress myself. I was awkward physically. I was toilet-trained at age 2 1/2, though. I learned to dress myself and to tie my shoelaces at age 6. I also learned to write at age 6. I learned to dress myself primarily because I didn't like the feeling of my mother dressing me



btbnnyr
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18 Dec 2014, 8:01 pm

Is not dressing oneself as a 5-year-old really low-functioning though?
I didn't think so, as I didn't dress myself when I was 5 either, and that doesn't seem like an abnormality to me.


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18 Dec 2014, 8:09 pm

I've looked up the BAP a lot, but there isn't much on it. I actually find it to be pretty fascinating and I see it in a lot of people I know. I tend to think that I am on the "autistic side" of BAP. If I have AS, it's not "full-blown".

I also like how they have divided it up into three: the narrow autism phenotype, medium autism phenotype, and broad autism phenotype. I just wish there were more studies on it or more research, more written about it and they seem to only acknowledge it in parents and siblings, not children of those with AS, as well. I suppose that probably has to do with lack of acknowledgement of the adults with AS and the problems with how to diagnose and classify adults.

A five-year-old should be able to dress themselves, yes, but I don't think that alone would constitute "low-functioning"; it would have to be lots of things in tandem. Also, I read that difficulty dressing oneself can actually be caused by sensory processing disorder too. Sorry, I know you meant this for KraftieKortie. Just butting in with my two-cents worth.



kraftiekortie
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18 Dec 2014, 8:14 pm

I'm not sure if I could even take OFF my own clothes.

But I don't remember wearing a diaper. I was toilet trained at 2 1/2, through (according to my mother) my mother sitting me on the toilet, and telling me, in essence, this is what you do when you have to go to the bathroom.

I was low-functioning in the sense that I used to scream any time I entered a store. If I went in the store, I threw everything off the shelves. My parents couldn't take me anywhere like a restaurant--I would have probably thrown all the plates, silverware, etc on the floor. I had no restraint, apparently.

When I was about 3, one doctor described me as a "vegetable," diagnosed me with autism, and recommended I be institutionalized.

I wasn't able to write AT ALL until age 6. Later on, in my age 5 year, I used to "pretend" to write by scribbling. I was able to perform all the motions of writing, without being able to write--very weird. Also, when I was 6, my father wrote out my name and told me to write it. I wrote it.

You should read "Elijah's Cup." That kid was similar to me.



btbnnyr
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18 Dec 2014, 11:04 pm

I didn't act out much, as I was the aloof kind of autistic child who kept to myself and had no observable reaction to most things, such as people speaking to me in front of my face or propane eggsplosions at the street market.

My father was a super independent child who took himself to the big city hospital to seek medical help for a goiter that he developed when he was three and crawled up the steps of the hospital.

My mother was a normal child, pampered and protected by four older brothers, but she didn't grow up into a completely normal female, eggsacly. Some of these brothers are kind of like my father, but not as socially offensive.

When I was three, the preschool teachers told my parents I was freak of nature, but my parents considered me only kind of weird due to their BAPness. I am super glad I grew up with BAP parents instead of NT parents, many things automatically fit me, because they fit my parents too. In fact, I think that some of my autistic traits were positively reinforced, esp. by my father's autistic traits, whereas NT parents would have tried to decrease them. I wonder if my parents are capable of producing normal children, ackshuly, but I have no way to know, since I am the only one. I also wonder what kind of children I might produce.


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17 Sep 2020, 10:47 pm

I am starting to think that criteria for ASD is way too broad.


There are also reports or stories that some lose their ASD diagnosis as they get older, just because they got improved, even though some forget that ASD is a developmental disorder ( especially milder forms of ASD ) and a developmental disorder is something you have for the rest of your life.


Even my brother's friend said he was diagnosed with Autism, but he thinks it is stupid, because from his perspective, it never caused him any distress in daily life, but his doctors thought otherwise.

Developmental disorders comprise a group of psychiatric conditions originating in childhood that involve serious impairment in different areas. There are several ways of using this term.

[1]

The most narrow concept is used in the category "Specific Disorders of Psychological Development" in the ICD-10.

[1]

These disorders comprise developmental language disorder, learning disorders, motor disorders, and autism spectrum disorders.

[2]

In broader definitions ADHD is included, and the term used is neurodevelopmental disorders.

[1]

Yet others include antisocial behavior and schizophrenia that begins in childhood and continues through life.

[1]

However, these two latter conditions are not as stable as the other developmental disorders, and there is not the same evidence of a shared genetic liability.

[1]

Developmental disorders are present from early life. Most improve as the child grows older, but some entail impairments that continue throughout life. There is a strong genetic component; more males are afflicted than females.

[1]

This is just an example, but it’s not accurate.

Females should get the same treatments and therapies just like men gets.

Should we change the criteria for Autism Spectrum disorder? In order to have diagnosis of ASD you need to have traits of part of ASD for four months, after 12 months of age and if traits are gone after more four months you are developmentally delayed.

In order to qualify for diagnosis of Pervasive Developmental Disorder, symptoms must be present for four months right before the age of one.

Autism can be diagnosed at age through 0-3 years of age, but moderate to milder form of Autism can be diagnosed at the age of 4+

According to Wikipedia a chronic condition is a health condition or disease that is persistent or otherwise long-lasting in its effects or a disease that comes with time. The term chronic is often applied when the course of the disease lasts for more than three months.

Even if symptoms of Autism is gone, you are still considered to have history of developmental delay, because the traits of ASD lasted for more than three months

Symptoms of ASD for four months before the age of one:

1. Not respond to their name by 12 months of age
2. Not point at objects to show interest (point at an airplane flying over) by 14 months
3. Not play “pretend” games (pretend to “feed” a doll) by 18 months
4. Avoid eye contact and want to be alone
5. Have trouble understanding other people’s feelings or talking about their own feelings
6. Have delayed speech and language skills
7. Repeat words or phrases over and over (echolalia)
8. Give unrelated answers to questions
9. Get upset by minor changes
10. Have obsessive interests
11. Flap their hands, rock their body, or spin in circles
12. Have unusual reactions to the way things sound, smell, taste, look, or feel
13. Does not respond to name by 12 months of age
14. Avoids eye-contact
15. Prefers to play alone
16. Does not share interests with others
17. Only interacts to achieve a desired goal
18. Has flat or inappropriate facial expressions
19. Does not understand personal space boundaries
20. Avoids or resists physical contact
21. Is not comforted by others during distress
22. Delayed speech and language skills
23. Repeats words or phrases over and over (echolalia)
24. Reverses pronouns (e.g., says “you” instead of “I”)
25. Gives unrelated answers to questions
26. Does not point or respond to pointing
27. Uses few or no gestures (e.g., does not wave goodbye)
28. Talks in a flat, robot-like, or sing-song voice
29. Does not pretend in play (e.g., does not pretend to “feed” a doll)
30. Does not understand jokes, sarcasm, or teasing
31. Lines up toys or other objects
32. Plays with toys the same way every time
33. Likes parts of objects (e.g., wheels)
34. Is very organized
35. Gets upset by minor changes
36. Has obsessive interests
37. Has to follow certain routines
38. Flaps hands, rocks body, or spins self in circles
39. Hyperactivity (very active)
40. Impulsivity (acting without thinking)
41. Short attention span
42. Aggression
43. Causing self injury
44. Temper tantrums
45. Unusual eating and sleeping habits
46. Unusual mood or emotional reactions
47. Lack of fear or more fear than expected
48. Unusual reactions to the way things sound, smell, taste, look, or feel

It’s to make it even more broad and most with Broad Autism Phenotype should have some form of ASD diagnosis, because Autism is a spectrum developmental disorder from very severe to very mild.

The reason why I said this, is because the term broad autism phenotype describes an even wider range of individuals who exhibit problems with personality, language, and social-behavioral characteristics at a level that is considered to be higher than average but lower than is diagnosable with autism.

Even if you slightly had some problems with personality, language, and social-behavioral characteristics from early to late childhood, early to late adolescence and adulthood, I would still consider you to have history of developmental delay, regardless if it is diagnosed or not and also, because the DSM changed all subgroups of Autisms into a spectrum disorder, from very severe to very mild.