rape culture

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From the article by McElroy (and from within the study itself for those who haven't read it):

- Of the approximately 15,000 students at the university in question, 86 male students were surveyed and 73 answers were used for analysis. Of these, 23 respondents were considered to have expressed "intentions to force a woman to sexual intercourse." -

Explain how 23 students can be considered "A third of male university students".



Source?

Also, explain how one forces a hypothetical woman to have sex.



Based on the introduction within the study itself, it appears that what the study was trying to do is lend credibility to the debunked 1 in 5 statistic.



Strange that you hold MRAs in such low esteem considering how similar they are to your own whackjob hate club.

Oh, and it didn't escape my attention that you chose to ignore McElroy's article. Never ceases to amuse me when feminists completely disregard the views of women they don't agree with.

It's called statistics. You can't survey every person in the population, so you take a randomised sample and generalise it to the whole. At least a third of the men surveyed did say that they would coerce a women into having sex with them, if the word "rape" wasn't used.



There's a difference between "did" and "would". The point of the hypothetical question is to determine if they would do it, not whether they did. It wasn't trying to determine whether they have raped someone but whether they would if given the chance. It turns out that a third of them would coerce a woman into having sex with according to the hypothetical question but mostly because they don't see that as rape.



So? I don't think that statistic is debunked, and it did succeed in lending support to it. If it was wrong, the current study would not of done so.



I didn't need to read it. It's got nothing to do with our discussion because I'm only talking about the facts with respect to the study that we're talking about. You didn't even post a link to McElroy's article, so you can't expect me to read it.

Also, feminism is about equality for women, it's not a "hate club".

I am sorry, I am lost. How does Jono's use of an inappropriate extrapolation show that he is part of a "whackjob hate cult"?

Then again, it should be of little surprise to anyone when an anti-feminist possesses a tenuous grip on reality.

Obviously no conclusions can be drawn based on such a small sample size, and it's likely these students didn't take the survey seriously.

A couple of points:

1) This is not a randomised sample
2) The sample size is far too small for valid conclusions to be drawn

I really don't believe 1/3 of men would rape someone if given the opportunity.

Might well be interesting to see what the results would be were similar questions asked of women. (Or maybe they did and the results came out "too high"...)

86 psychology students at a single college does not constitute a randomised sample, nor is it sufficient to generalise for the entire population.



Didn't ask for a patronising sidebar, thanks. Where's the source I asked for?



Favouring the woefully unscientific CSA online survey of 2007 over actual statistics from the DOJ is on a par with favouring creationism over science.



It's directly underneath the quote from her that you omitted in your own quoting of my post.



“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor

“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -– Valerie Solanas

“Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear” — Susan Brownmiller

“The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race.” — Sally Miller Gearhart

Do you suggest that the majority of feminists publicly condemn these prominent figureheads of the cult of man-hate? Sally Miller Gearhart, along with the similarly-minded Mary Daly, wrote the literature that is studied in gender masters courses today.

Feminism is nothing but a vile, fascist hate-club, comprised primarily of entitled white westerners.

Feminism is a whackjob hate club. Jono identifies as a feminist. Jono is part of a whackjob hate cult.

If you were paying attention, you would have noted that he knew exactly what I meant by whackjob hate cult without explicitly mentioning Feminism.

His 'use of an inappropriate extrapolation' is not a causal factor, it is a symptom.



But we will all, of course, be shocked that someone posting in defence of feminism has resorted to ad hominem.



Precisely so. Though one wonders what it says about your own state of mind that you agree with me immediately following a personal attack on my sanity.

me either, I'm also curious what questions were asked. some people will fantas about stuff but never do it for real.

so I wonder if they took guys who think about it as well they'd do it if they had the chance.

I think about doing a lot of things that I wouldn't. like speeding. sure seems like it'd be fun in my head to go 100 down the road but I wouldn't' do it even if I thought I could get away with it.

I really hope so, the link was broken when I tried to look at it. Of course there is this number floating around at campuses these days that one in four women get raped or have attempted rape happen to them, I'm not sure of the validity of this number, but it's strongly ingrained everywhere.

I'm too personally attached to this, I'm out

Firstly, you cannot draw accurate conclusions if your premises are wrong. Feminism is evidently not a "whackjob hate cult". Most people you know are feminists. Most feminists are very nice people. It's also, generally speaking, a movement reasonably grounded in facts.


That isn't an ad hominem. An ad hominem would be saying that you are wrong because you are stupid or a terrible person. Saying that people who are against gender equality have a tenuous grip on reality is a craft piece of rhetoric and perhaps slightly disingenuous, but it's also true and it's not an ad hominem.

I've provided examples that demonstrate feminism is a cult of hate. Your response amounts to "Your premises are wrong because feminists don't see feminism that way". Colour me shocked! In other news, the WBC believes it's doing "God's Work". Your ideology is built on the principles of a woman who believes that 90% of all men should be exterminated. Want to talk some more about the premises which inform our conclusions?





Yes it is.



Or mentally unsound.



It goes way beyond disingenuous, and is in fact a personal attack. Considering which website you're posting on, I would expect you to demonstrate at least a modicum of sensitivity when discussing matters of mental health. Do you genuinely expect anyone to accept your claim that "most feminists are nice people" when you personally set the bar so low?

I think you've demonstrated exactly why my conclusions are spot on, thanks.



http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5176

Of course 6.1 per thousand is still 6.1 per thousand too many, but the figures suggest we're living in a rape hysteria culture rather than a culture of rape itself.

If a lack of "no" isn't consent then what exactly do you think should be done to get consent? I think that stopping and asking "May I do this?" every time you do anything would kill the mood.

I think rapists are big losers who are too afraid to have sex with a consenting person. What, don't they think they have the charm and sav·oir faire to convince a woman to sleep with them? They might try to convince themselves that they rape because they are so bad--s, but it is because they are cowardly. They want to see themselves as studs but in reality, they are pathetic and disgustingly selfish. Are there actually songs about rape that put it in a good light? I hope not.

There are brave people, people of character, people who one can admire and someone who is a rapes is the opposite of them.

No, I think that non-verbal consent would be fine but if you're not sure then you should always ask. Sorry, but I don't think that "killing the mood" is a valid reason to not ask. What's more important, the "mood" or insuring consent, given that non-consensual sex can cause a lot psychological damage?

This is NOT A BLACK AND WHITE issue.

The science of human sexuality is complex.

Violence and sex are interconnected in the human brain.

If it WAS NOT A WHOLE HERD OF FEMALES IN THE U.S. would not be 'SALIVATING' TO SEE THE MOVIE LINKED HERE.



Some humans, both female and male, PER correlated factor with measures of human sexual behavior associated hormones are more aggressive than others IN THE PURSUIT OF SEX.

For example, I was aggressively 'attacked' by a female BUTT IN a public dance hall, JUST TWO DAYS AGO, in front of literally hundreds of witnesses where SHE aggressively rubbed her butt up and down on my front area, as I tried to escape, valiantly into a crowd of humans that were surrounding, ME, A married man, AS I am monogamous, and all of that.

Let's get real, SEX IS COMPLICATED AND NOT A BLACK AND WHITE YES OR NO REAL LIFE SCENARIO, AT LEAST IN SOME CASES.

AND ANYONE WHO THINKS IT'S NOT, HAS EITHER not participated in enough real life case STUDIES OR PURSUED THE SCIENTIFIC literature that DOES EXIST REGARDING the true complexity of human SEXUAL behavior.

Being MONOGAMOUS SOLVES lots of potential REAL LIFE HEADACHES.

BUT ANYWAY, IF THIS VIDEO OF AN EXTREMELY POPULAR CHICK FLICK COMING UP ON VALENTINE'S DAY DOESN'T PROVE THIS HYPOTHESIS, NOTHING DOES.

THERE ARE many POTENTIAL women rapists out there too, and it is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE IN modern culture AS PRACTICED NOW for them to be that WAY TOO.

BUT HAHA! AT 230LBS OF almost all muscle now leg pressing approx. 900LBS of Nautilus free weights in parallel leg press at 12 reps. 'they' will not be able to take advantage of THIS dude, more than a few rubs here or there IN fully clothed crotch.

Truly in most cases it is the PHYSICAL SIZE OF MEN that puts them AT advantage of EXERTING THEIR WILL OVER WOMEN, IN THE SATISFACTION Of sexual lusting desires.

Give women the same TOOLS, AND YA GOT THE SAME ISSUE, AS humans are humans, and they GO AFTER WHAT THEY WANT, if given the opportunity freely, AS THAT GOES WITH DIFFERENT LEVELS Of human hormones, and associated tools of human desires and DEFENSE AGAINST THOSE DESIRES, male Or female in full consideration, of this real life human sexual behavior phenomenon.

Lionesses have big claws AND TEETH when THEY SO NO, TO THEIR POTENTIAL male SUITORS.

AND WE HAVE LAWS, yes, which in REAL LIFE PERTAIN TO SOME OF US HUMANS, which PROTECT WOMEN FROM THIS, but no, NOT FOR ALL MEN, AS THEY WOULD BE 'LAUGHED OFF THE EARTH', FOR THE MOST PART, FOR COMPLAINING ABOUT AN ASSAULTING BUTT.

I for one am always extremely cautious in keeping a proper distance from anything that looks like anything related to abuse, and I for one, will protect females, when other males approaching my size and strength attempt to exert their will over women in this way, WHEN IT IS CLEAR THAT IS THE CASE.

HOWEVER, truthfully these days, in REAL LIFE PUBLIC DANCE HALLS, IT IS 50 SHADES OF GRAY, to determine who wants what WHEN.

SOMEONE truly has to say NO LOUD, TO BE SURE, AT least in the dance halls where I visit.

And MOST no one truly would take a man seriously, IF HE SAID NO, TO A WOMEN in the ways of bootie dances, and that's kind of sad, truly it is.

But IT IS HUMAN NATURE, AS IS AND reality as IS, NO MATTER what IS POLITICALLY CORRECT or legal, in writing.

AND for me, at least, the overall dance outweighs this POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCE of the dance hall for me.

My WIFE WILL NOT GO AT ALL, as she is ALL OF small, beautiful, and extremely vulnerable, and she likely does not want to see the result of a real fight of ME WITH ANYONE ELSE, if someone dared to attempt to take advantage of her, like this, in my presence, at least.

And ha! HA!, extremely unlikely that they would, as my obvious defense is my both my size and STRENGTH ILLUSTRATED WELL in martial arts and ballet style dance.

But nah, it doesn't scare the girls away at ALL, OBVIOUSLY, as the science of bootie dance illustratesIN REAL LIFE EXTREMELY WELL, objectively speaking, per science only, of course.

When it comes to human behavior almost nothing is black and white science.

HUMANS ARE ART IN ALL OF THEIR AGGRESSIVE AND LOVING WAYS.

AND TO UNDERSTAND IT IS TRULY ART AND SCIENCE balanced.

There IS No way someone is gonna able to understand any human behavior solely on the basis of science alone.

The answer is simple for that.

The scientific method requires controls per repeatable experiment without environmental influences to change the results.

Humans are controlled by both innate factors and environmental factors per MEMORY OF ENVIRONMENTAL FACTORS AS WELL AS CURRENT OBSERVABLE environmental factors, SO THE ANSWERS at best when it comes to human beings are NEVER MORE THAN HYPOTHESES.

So let the hypotheses continue, as truly that's all that human opinion EVER IS, when it comes to human behavior and other sentiment of human beings, no matter where science goes in empirical ways of measurement.

HUMANS are ART AND NOT SCIENCE ALONE, and as far as that GOES SO IS GOD PER Mother Nature True.

Such a simple truth that many PEOPLE FAIL to be able to 'see', per innate and environmental factors, PERHAPS.