Russian war against Ukraine

Post Reply New Topic

Is this some kind of joke?

http://popularmilitary.com/russia-plann ... rth-korea/

Russia is becoming a fascist state, and the reason many Russians support it is due to the media, which is controlled by the political/ industrial elite. It's like Fox News but way worse.

The Pentagon thinks Putin has Asperger's.

US weapons for Ukraine?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/ ... 3720150211

Not sure I agree with this. It seems like they have plenty of weapons already.

They have some left, but they keep losing them. Right now they just lost 7-9,000 troops, all of their weapons, in the caldron.

In the south the Rights Sector was baited out of Maripol, in tanks, lead into the woods till they ran out of fuel.

The Rights Sector, National Guard, and other thuggery are more the drive-by shooting and street gang type of fighting. Only from a safe distance will they use artillery on schools, hospitals, bus stops.

The front lines are filled with guys who were in high school last year. Safely behind them are National Guard who will shoot them if they pull back

Reports from Kiev say three of their troops suffered minor wounds while they killed 10,000 terrorists and Russian troops last week. Reports from several outside sources say Kiev is losing thousands a week, and since the schools and kindergartens are closed, the killing of terrorists is way down.

Russian troops have atomic self destruct devices, that is why none have been captured dead or alive.

The US gave arms to Saddam, Poison Gas, which he used on Iran, and a few Kurds. We know he had banned weapons of mass destruction, we still have the receipts! Now ISIS has them, because after capture of the warehouse where we delivered them, we left them there, because old nerve gas is unstable. It would have been an unprofitable expense. Like what we got stuck with in Syria, a billion dollar gift, as Assad gave all his obsolete chemical weapons to America, who had to dispose of them.

Ukraine is very badly run, and has a lot of Soviet Era Atomic Reactors.

The people in the east say they are Ukraine, Russia says they are, so does Kiev. The US sending in trainers and weapons is taking sides in a Civil War. There are no Communists involved, they are all the same Religion. America is going to war against Federalists! The main reason for war, They Voted!

The eastern Ukraines are on home ground, the people shelling their cities are from the other side of the country.
The eastern Ukraines never attacked anyone outside their cities. Half of their Oblasts have been overrun with Rights Sector, Blackwater, National Guard, and other Private Armies. That and the full force of State arms have been thrown at them, and they are gaining ground.

When the current line crumbles, there is nothing between the Federalists and Kiev.

Federalist views run strong all over, being able to elect your own Mayor, Governor, Delegates to the National Government, and Vote for National Offices.

Imagine a Country with Oblast Rights, where the people elect local leaders, make local law, then all the Oblasts elect a National Federalist Government, with limited rights. Government by the consent of the governed.

According to Washington, the Media, and The Federal Reserve System, Putin is an aspie for thinking anything so crazy stands a chance of working in the real world. Their reply is putting missiles all along the Russian border. From a hundred kilometers away they can target terrorist kindergartens, for Freeedom! It is better they are dead than Federalist.

America fought a war against Federalism in 1861, and Oblast Rights. They are not going to let that evil rise again anywhere on earth.

Besides that our young people say there are not enough meaningful jobs. They are also behind in their Student Loans. A lot of world problems can be solved by drafting those in default. It would be a great education to destroy those who think they can form their own government, run it themselves, for their own goals.

Okay, maybe Ukraine could use some weapons. But if they get the stuff they need ( tanks and anti-tank), what is to stop Russia from similarly upping the ante at much less expense?

I think this is the same thing as locks: locks don't stop burglars, but it makes it more difficult for them so they may consider it not worth the effort. This war in Ukraine is the same, if the Russians wanted to win at all costs they could have overrun all of Ukraine easily, they outmatch them so much. By boosting the Ukrainian military the Russians may just consider it not worth it to escalate the conflict, and they may sooner consider a diplomatic solution. Maybe they counted on the EU/US not doing anything.
Anyway, they seem to have come up with a ceasefire today, now they just need to find a way out of this conflict without while allowing everyone to save face (there isn't, but maybe they can spin it that way).

Why would they need weapons since peace has been declared?

This peace is based on a Federalist Constitution this year. It cannot just be for the east, all Oblasts are equal, so it also applies to Odessa.

Local Mayors, Judges, Police Chief, and Oblast Governors, other officials are currently all appointed from Kiev.

The only elections are national, and only approved people can run for office. Since the last "Election". The Communists, the Regions Party of the last President, have been banned from politics.

Free elections, the South and East have the majority vote.

First they will have a Majority in the Rada, then will elect the next President. The war will be over.

Several times the US has cancelled elections in other countries when the wrong people were going to win.

The same deal, a national election, Ho Chi Min was a national hero, fought the French, The Japanese, the French again, and was set to be elected in a landslide. The US sent in troops and called off the election, 68,000 American dead later they left.

All of the government in Kiev knows they will not last, the money is gone, they have a $3,000,000,000 Russian Loan coming due, owe more for gas, so a Billion in arms sounds good, it can be sold on the black market, ISIS is buying.

Arms are useless, the Peace Agreement calls for pulling back heavy weapons, beyond their range. With no one on the front line having more than small arms. It also calls for removing all outside troops from the east, and allows the east to have a local militia. That means Kiev leaving the eastern Oblasts.

This will be followed by local elections, and the National Constitution changed to reflect a Federal System.

It is the same as the last Peace Agreement. Kiev did not pull back their weapons last time, as leaving them at the airport made it easy to shell the city.

This time, any heavy weapons in the Demilitarized Zone, will be fair game. Kiev's troops with only small arms will not hold the line. Nothing will stop eastern troops with small arms from advancing.

The coup imposed government is already at war with the Rights Sector in Kiev.

They lost the war, the peace, the war again, and this peace is the end.

I think Ukraine can stop the rebels from advancing, but the whole reason they are fighting in the first place is to reclaim the territory under separatist control. And I don't see them being able to do this. If they get more equipment, the rebels will also get more equipment. And they might as well forget about Crimea...

Anything can be declared, but as history has shown, words are merely words. I don't believe for a second that we've seen the end of this conflict. This is a perfect opportunity to bring in some heavy equipment. They're gonna need it, most likely.

Kiev has agreed to withdraw, and to a Federalist Constitution. France, Germany, Russia were parties to this agreement. Withdraw and the east has no one to fight.

Europe tried to get Russia to police the demilitarized zone. Russia refused, so Europe has to.

The East has had one demand, local rule in a Federation. It is something that everyone in France, Germany, Russia, have. They were attacked, called terrorists, had military weapons used to kill over 5,000 for holding a democratic election.

This is the stronghold of The Party of Regions, they elected the last president, and were then barred from the coup held elections. They are 40% of the economy of Ukraine. They also have major trade with Russia.

The south and east have the majority vote, the best economy, twice the per capita income, an industrial technology, Russian Defense Industries, and they just beat the National Government in two wars.

Kiev is broke, their money near worthless, live by begging and stealing, and cannot find enough food in some of the richest farmland on earth. They have raised the price of gas, cut pensions, and the economy is in free fall.

Giving them guns will not help. Giving them IMF Loans will not help.

IMF loans went to paying the Russians for gas, $5.3 Billion, and now $3 Billion in Russian loans are due. Ukraine has no way to pay back these loans. More money went to fund a civil war they lost. Russia is still their main supply of gas and coal.

The gold reserves have vanished. Some $8 Billion is gone without a trace under the coup government.

Russia, or Novarussia could overthrow Kiev. No one wants to because they would inherit their debts.

First a Federal System, then Novarussia quits, and western Ukraine can have what they made.

We will have a Yugoslav solution.

It depends on the context. You are referring to economic conditions, while guns are used in military contexts. The situation is far from resolved, and a peace declaration does not in any way alter the need for military equipment. Quite the contrary.

In military context guns will not help. Ukraine had the superior weapons and troop numbers, they lost.
60% of their weapons were captured by the east last time, and more this time.

Ukraine had the only aircraft, now the east is a no fly zone.

Ground forces keep getting cut off.

Ukraine Army declared war on civilians, and lost.

All they have done is randomly shell cities from a distance, as they can no longer randomly bomb them.

Schools, hospitals, apartment blocks, people at a bus stop, are not targets, they are war crimes.

Killing civilians for political or religious reasons is called Terrorism.

Millions have fled into Russia because their own government was killing them.

Many more have fled western Ukraine to avoid being drafted.

Politics is now five years in jail for denying Russian Aggression. The same for asking for evidence of a Russian Invasion.

Drafting all men between eighteen and sixty to go fight in the east, declaring Martial Law, does not have the support of anyone.

What will happen next does not need more guns, it is time for the regular Army to stage a coup, draft a new Constitution, and hold elections where all groups can vote.

Having claimed that Russian speakers are invading terrorists, killing them, excluding them from government, has made it impossible to keep one country.

Europe has refused to arm Ukraine, NATO has refused to arm Ukraine. Poland did offer to sell some military surplus for cash. The coup imposed government does not have support inside or outside of the country.

Where do you get your information from? PutinTV?

Fairly good for the unwashed, we are not the good guys, and the other side is not deserving of evil.

The rabbit hole is deeper, while we did promote unrest in Soviet East Europe, it was a neglected and exploited wasteland. About all the west had to do with the east was arrange for Royal Families to be killed.

Pre WWII there was no access, and the over production of all goods, made keeping other sources of raw material off the market. England, France, Germany, wanted all the manufacturing for the whole world.

Russia was the force that could unite Slavic Lands, and Napoleon and the British at Crimea tried to crush them.

Again in 1917, the murder of the Romanovs, a long term goal of the west, to keep Russia from using its resources to enter world markets.

Then it was Germany, carving a Greater Germany out of Slav Lands, and the Russian response pushing them back to Berlin.

Russia had never occupied Slav Lands, but once they did they inherited a mess. It had not been much, Germany smashed that. Russia built water, sewer, power, roads, schools, hospitals, factories, and a system of full employment.

Eastern Europe was an economic loss for Russia. It was the cost of maintaining it that bankrupted the Soviet Union. A generation grew up seeing how Western Europe had more, and rightly wanted it, but did not understand that Europe had more, when they were kept as serfs. Europe told them they could have prosperity if the made trouble for the Russians that had advanced them several hundred years in forty.

They were a buffer, Russia wanted to integrate Slavs with Europe, so they cut them lose.

Europe and America then looted their economies, bribed their way to buying the best, put the countries in debt servitude, leaving Eastern Europe with half the living standard of Russia.

After the Cold War, NATO advanced bases to the Russian Border. Eastern Europe is now poor, and the first strike target.

While this was claimed as a defense of the West, an anti missile shield, it would be useless, as subs, planes, over the pole, is still wide open. A missile defense would not stop Russian troops, tanks, if they wanted to invade.

The only logical purpose, getting close enough to launch a first strike, with no warning.

Most of it was expected, but overthrowing an elected government in Ukraine and selling the Russian Crimean warm water navel base to Joe Biden, was one step too far.

Even after Russia withdrew from Eastern Europe, they continued to be the main export buyer, Ukraine dairy, Polish apples, and the main supplier of machines, gas, and goods eastern Europeans could afford. Sanctions ended that. Eastern Europe still buys gas and coal from Russia.

NATO brings poverty, and all government is now in Brussels. Europe has reduced the Slavs to slaves, and the USA has taken over Europe. Russia often uses the word "Partner" rather than "Customer" when speaking of Europeans. While the US and UK were excluded, France and Germany were partners in resolving the Ukraine situation.

Russia, Germany, France, are the European Powers. Between them lies the market, and just as Russia is a natural ally of China, having an intact and functioning Europe protects everyone. They all have Islamic and American problems.

China and Russia have agreed on a high speed train from Beijing to Moscow, in two days, and the next stop would be Berlin in three. Along the rails will run electric power from Russia's Breeder Reactors. This Silk Road unites Eurasia. Next come duty free, then a common currency.

America and the Petro Dollar exports inflation, offers uneven trade agreements, and has an economy built on debt. This bubble will pop, Russia, India, China are selling dollars and buying gold.

Europe, Turkey, Egypt, are being offered membership in the next economy.

America is due to wake up with a sever hangover.