Page 1 of 2 [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Anna_K
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

Joined: 9 Jun 2014
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Posts: 453

25 Jan 2015, 12:08 pm

As I have mentioned in other posts, I practice martial arts 3 times a week. I have felt relatively comfortable and safe there in the past, I like the instructors, the other people there etc. However, after class ended the other day, 3 of the boys there, mostly one of them in particular, asked me if I liked *****(name is starred out to protect their identity). I answered them honestly and said that I didn't. Keep in mind that these 3 kids ages range from 11-13, and I am in high school. They then proceeded to talk about how ***** liked me and that ***** wanted me to kiss him(they didn't force me into it). The kid who they were talking about is around 12-13. My sister told them that I wasn't going to do it. Because they are younger than me, I kinda laughed it off and didn't take it too seriously. They were laughing too. My mom heard my sister and I talking about it and she said it was sexual harassment and that I shouldn't be laughing. I did feel bad for laughing cuz before I left I saw ***** and he looked really embarrassed.

Idk if they were purposely teasing me just to tease their friend, or if it was to purposely make me upset(it didn't). They did tell me afterwards that they were just teasing and that I shouldn't take it seriously. I am confused about whether or not I should be concerned, because we used to make jokes like that in elementary school, this is the first time it has happened, and I have had boys in my age group say things to me that were way worse than this. What do you think?


_________________
F.A.I.L. is just the First Attempt in Life.....
^_^


thatsrobrageous
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 344
Location: Cohoes, NY

25 Jan 2015, 3:42 pm

Here is my honest opinion and look on this. these might be middle schoolers looking for attention, do not even take what they say seriously. I wouldn't be too sure if they were bullying you or not. If i were there in person, it would be easier to tell. But if they start escalating after the kissing where they start harassing you about it and then ask you to make sexual advances, that would certainly be sexual harassment. You can say something to your instructor if these boys are really getting to you. I would certainly hope a high school student like you doesn't fall for these middle school tricks, you are better than them. Best of luck to you.



0_equals_true
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,262
Location: London

25 Jan 2015, 6:04 pm

Sexual harassment?

This is a serious thing, and such a label if applied could have serious consequences for that child. Not something to take lightly.

Harassment, is when there is a behaviour that unreasonable, and often persistent.

Were they bantering? What is the motivation? Was it to tease the boy.

It would be sexual harassment they were trying to get sexual enjoyment from a reaction or put you in a vulnerable position sexually, or to sexually humiliate.

Is it really at that level, or is it more a case of boy talking about a crush, ribbing each other? I'm not saying ribbing good, but it is serious enough to be sexual harassment?

I think kids act up, push boundaries. Sometime they do commit crimes, but sometime they are criminalised for being kids. Even if they are really annoying.

We are not there so, can't be sure.



nerdygirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.

25 Jan 2015, 7:16 pm

IMO, this was probably middle-school joking.

I experienced verbal sexual harassment in 6th grade, and it was not "so-and-so" wants you to kiss him. It was full of crude inuendos, sexual insults, calling me names, accusing me of participating in certain specific sexual activities, (I was 10/11 but looked at least 13) and so on. It mostly took place on the bus between the time the elementary-school kids were dropped off and when we arrived at my school. It seemed that half the kids riding the bus took part in this ganging up on me.

I was mortified and humiliated. I was ostracized and traumatized. At that point, I honestly did not even know what half the terms meant (but I figured it out.) I did not tell any teacher or my parents what was going on because I was so ashamed I couldn't even repeat what was said, it was so horrible. Even today, it brings back horrible feelings when I think about it.

I suppose that these kids in your class might have been harassing you, but I think your feelings about it tell you whether or not they were. If you were put down and feel like a victim, they were harassing you.



Anna_K
Velociraptor
Velociraptor

Joined: 9 Jun 2014
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Posts: 453

25 Jan 2015, 9:15 pm

It seemed more like immature middle school teasing to me and my sister(who is NT), but my mom said that is how it starts out, and that it escalates from there. She was probably just worried that their comments will turn worse in the future.

@nerdygirl, I am sorry that you had to go through that kind of stuff at a young age, especially when you didn't know what it meant. I had a classmate in Gr. 8 ask me once if I liked p**** or d***, and if I liked it better white or black. I told the principal and the kid got sent to the office for a day.


_________________
F.A.I.L. is just the First Attempt in Life.....
^_^


nerdygirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.

25 Jan 2015, 9:26 pm

Yeah, I was asked repeatedly when I had lost my virginity (I hadn't, just looked like I *could* have because I was "developed", but I never dressed provocatively or anything.) I was told that repeatedly that I should give so-and-so a b.j. I was sworn at and called sexually derogatory names so many times and in so many disgusting ways I couldn't even count. And that was my introduction to words and phrases I had never heard at home.

For me, the harassment started day one at full strength. There was no "mild" harassment leading to something further.

However, I got the "mild" stuff in elementary school. And in 7/8th grade, I did get teased quite a bit by a boy. But, I think he liked me. He was not in any way like the kids in 6th grade. He prank called me, and he might have joked about kissing and stuff like that. Compared to what I had heard before, it was nothing.

In my experience, the sexual harassment involved specific reference to sexual organs and activities related to them.



nerdygirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.

25 Jan 2015, 9:42 pm

I also got my bra snapped quite a number of times by a boy in summer camp when I was 10. I would count that as sexual harassment.

When I was 13, I got honked and whistled at by guys driving by when I was walking down the street in my hometown after school. I'd call that sexual harassment, too, but it was less personal since I didn't know who was whistling.

Harassment = a threat of some kind. In all the situations I described, I was afraid of the boys.

That is significant, too, because I was a tomboy (still am) and have always made friends and related to boys/men more than girls/women. I was *always* comfortable around guys. So, when they become someone I am afraid of, there's definitely something amiss.



OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,897
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

26 Jan 2015, 12:53 am

I think that's just kids. It's not sexual harrassment. I also don't think kids snapping other kids bras is sexual harrassment either.

Back when I was about 20 I worked construction for a little bit. My boss said he needed my help to do something and we went over to the area where the sheet metal was stored. It was deserted and in the basement of the mall that was being built. He put his arms around me and asked if I wanted to "take a walk" with him. Since he was VERY close to me physically, I was able to knee him hard in the balls and threaten to tell his wife if he did it again or fired me for it. He never bothered me again. That was sexual harrassment. Being whistled at is rude, but not sexual harrassment.


_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com


nerdygirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.

26 Jan 2015, 6:05 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
I think that's just kids. It's not sexual harrassment. I also don't think kids snapping other kids bras is sexual harrassment either.

Back when I was about 20 I worked construction for a little bit. My boss said he needed my help to do something and we went over to the area where the sheet metal was stored. It was deserted and in the basement of the mall that was being built. He put his arms around me and asked if I wanted to "take a walk" with him. Since he was VERY close to me physically, I was able to knee him hard in the balls and threaten to tell his wife if he did it again or fired me for it. He never bothered me again. That was sexual harrassment. Being whistled at is rude, but not sexual harrassment.


I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Any of us here would call bullying a form of harassment.

I was bullied in the instances on the bus, at least. By a whole group of kids at once, too. If that's not harassment, I don't know what is. And the bullying was of a sexual nature. So, I call it sexual harassment. No, it's not the official definition since it didn't happen at work and wasn't coming from a superior. It sure *felt* like harassment. A kid version, perhaps.

To harass means to to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.

What I experienced was beyond teasing, and it was of a sexual nature.

I didn't even mention how in junior high I got eyed by male teachers and had an 8th grade boy say about me loudly in public, "Now, THAT's what a woman looks like." All this kind of stuff was a regular part of my life. Obviously it had quite an impact.

I suppose we could argue whether or not it is "sexual harassment", but we can't disagree that it is a form of males disrespecting females. No HONORABLE boy or man does this!

I'm glad you were able to get out of the situation you were in. I couldn't escape. Verbal attacks can be given without any notice and once they're said, they can't be undone.

Simple rudeness does not make one fearful. Simple rudeness does not teach a girl that she better do what she can to NOT attract attention to herself.

Were other girls at age 10/11/12 treated this way? I don't know, we didn't talk about it. I suspect not because I was definitely the most "developed" in my school at my age. Did I just react badly because of AS stuff? I don't know.



OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,897
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

26 Jan 2015, 6:26 am

I was bullied horribly and constantly all through school. I've been pantsed, been teased because I liked certain boys who would never have liked me, had a lot of things done like that. It was bullying and horrible. It was embarrassing. I consider it bullying and not sexual harrassment. Of course nowdays it's sexual harrassment to tell a slightly off color joke at work, so I wouldn't be surprised what all is called that now.

As for other girls, my best friend in school was developed way before anybody else and guys were always trying to grab her and snap her bra etc. She would hit them when they did it so she handled herself pretty well. Teachers would make them stop if they saw it, but she didn't run tell on them she handled her business. I would call that kid stuff as well and it didn't upset her and make her cry or traumatize her or anything, it just made her mad and she made sure they knew it. Thats just kids. No, it's not OK and kids should be taught not to do that and they are taught to do that, but kids are still kids and push limits and some are basically assholes and have to learn not to be. I don't think we should hold them to the same standards as adults who completely understand standards of behavior. We can't expect them to act like little well behaved adults at all time. I'm not saying tolerate things we shoulldn't but lets not fly off the handle about things and decide that middle school kids are guilty of sexual harrassment when it's simply them being bad because they are still kids. High school kids doing it is a different story, but saying that it's sexual harrassment when a middle school kid says "Now thats what a woman should look like" is going pretty far overboard, in my opinion.


_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com


nerdygirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.

26 Jan 2015, 7:35 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
I was bullied horribly and constantly all through school. I've been pantsed, been teased because I liked certain boys who would never have liked me, had a lot of things done like that. It was bullying and horrible. It was embarrassing. I consider it bullying and not sexual harrassment. Of course nowdays it's sexual harrassment to tell a slightly off color joke at work, so I wouldn't be surprised what all is called that now.

As for other girls, my best friend in school was developed way before anybody else and guys were always trying to grab her and snap her bra etc. She would hit them when they did it so she handled herself pretty well. Teachers would make them stop if they saw it, but she didn't run tell on them she handled her business. I would call that kid stuff as well and it didn't upset her and make her cry or traumatize her or anything, it just made her mad and she made sure they knew it. Thats just kids. No, it's not OK and kids should be taught not to do that and they are taught to do that, but kids are still kids and push limits and some are basically assholes and have to learn not to be. I don't think we should hold them to the same standards as adults who completely understand standards of behavior. We can't expect them to act like little well behaved adults at all time. I'm not saying tolerate things we shoulldn't but lets not fly off the handle about things and decide that middle school kids are guilty of sexual harrassment when it's simply them being bad because they are still kids. High school kids doing it is a different story, but saying that it's sexual harrassment when a middle school kid says "Now thats what a woman should look like" is going pretty far overboard, in my opinion.


I'm glad your friend was able to hit the boys. For various reasons, I couldn't hit the boy who snapped my bra.

As far as feeling traumatized by my experiences, I guess that means there was/is something wrong with me...



OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,897
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

26 Jan 2015, 8:05 am

nerdygirl wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I was bullied horribly and constantly all through school. I've been pantsed, been teased because I liked certain boys who would never have liked me, had a lot of things done like that. It was bullying and horrible. It was embarrassing. I consider it bullying and not sexual harrassment. Of course nowdays it's sexual harrassment to tell a slightly off color joke at work, so I wouldn't be surprised what all is called that now.

As for other girls, my best friend in school was developed way before anybody else and guys were always trying to grab her and snap her bra etc. She would hit them when they did it so she handled herself pretty well. Teachers would make them stop if they saw it, but she didn't run tell on them she handled her business. I would call that kid stuff as well and it didn't upset her and make her cry or traumatize her or anything, it just made her mad and she made sure they knew it. Thats just kids. No, it's not OK and kids should be taught not to do that and they are taught to do that, but kids are still kids and push limits and some are basically assholes and have to learn not to be. I don't think we should hold them to the same standards as adults who completely understand standards of behavior. We can't expect them to act like little well behaved adults at all time. I'm not saying tolerate things we shoulldn't but lets not fly off the handle about things and decide that middle school kids are guilty of sexual harrassment when it's simply them being bad because they are still kids. High school kids doing it is a different story, but saying that it's sexual harrassment when a middle school kid says "Now thats what a woman should look like" is going pretty far overboard, in my opinion.


I'm glad your friend was able to hit the boys. For various reasons, I couldn't hit the boy who snapped my bra.

As far as feeling traumatized by my experiences, I guess that means there was/is something wrong with me...


No, it doesn't mean something was or is wrong with you because you felt traumatized by it. I simply stated that my friend wasn't traumatized by what happened to her. I think defending herself went a long way to prevent that. Even when she couldn't hit them she would say something mean to them or call them a name so she never just took it and waited on someone in authority to step in. I think that is a big part of the reason that she wasn't traumatized. I know that when I started speaking up and defending myself from the bullying it was much less traumatizing for me and I over time I was able to get some perspective on it and it wasn't the worst thing that ever happened to me anymore. I was able to let it go a whole lot after I stopped feeling so helpless from it.

Thats one reason I'm a huge advocate of speaking up for yourself. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, to make myself go completely against my nature and speak up and do something back. I didn't always get the results I wanted every time either and it was very, very discouraging at times but over time it really helped.

I'm not implying that anyone who feels traumatized has something wrong with them.


_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com


nerdygirl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,645
Location: In the land of abstractions and ideas.

26 Jan 2015, 8:08 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
nerdygirl wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I was bullied horribly and constantly all through school. I've been pantsed, been teased because I liked certain boys who would never have liked me, had a lot of things done like that. It was bullying and horrible. It was embarrassing. I consider it bullying and not sexual harrassment. Of course nowdays it's sexual harrassment to tell a slightly off color joke at work, so I wouldn't be surprised what all is called that now.

As for other girls, my best friend in school was developed way before anybody else and guys were always trying to grab her and snap her bra etc. She would hit them when they did it so she handled herself pretty well. Teachers would make them stop if they saw it, but she didn't run tell on them she handled her business. I would call that kid stuff as well and it didn't upset her and make her cry or traumatize her or anything, it just made her mad and she made sure they knew it. Thats just kids. No, it's not OK and kids should be taught not to do that and they are taught to do that, but kids are still kids and push limits and some are basically assholes and have to learn not to be. I don't think we should hold them to the same standards as adults who completely understand standards of behavior. We can't expect them to act like little well behaved adults at all time. I'm not saying tolerate things we shoulldn't but lets not fly off the handle about things and decide that middle school kids are guilty of sexual harrassment when it's simply them being bad because they are still kids. High school kids doing it is a different story, but saying that it's sexual harrassment when a middle school kid says "Now thats what a woman should look like" is going pretty far overboard, in my opinion.


I'm glad your friend was able to hit the boys. For various reasons, I couldn't hit the boy who snapped my bra.

As far as feeling traumatized by my experiences, I guess that means there was/is something wrong with me...


No, it doesn't mean something was or is wrong with you because you felt traumatized by it. I simply stated that my friend wasn't traumatized by what happened to her. I think defending herself went a long way to prevent that. Even when she couldn't hit them she would say something mean to them or call them a name so she never just took it and waited on someone in authority to step in. I think that is a big part of the reason that she wasn't traumatized. I know that when I started speaking up and defending myself from the bullying it was much less traumatizing for me and I over time I was able to get some perspective on it and it wasn't the worst thing that ever happened to me anymore. I was able to let it go a whole lot after I stopped feeling so helpless from it.

Thats one reason I'm a huge advocate of speaking up for yourself. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, to make myself go completely against my nature and speak up and do something back. I didn't always get the results I wanted every time either and it was very, very discouraging at times but over time it really helped.

I'm not implying that anyone who feels traumatized has something wrong with them.


I was specifically taught to "ignore it." My husband was also given the same advice when he was young, in response to bullying. I think I would have liked to have been taught "stick up for yourself" skills, but I wasn't.



OliveOilMom
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Age: 55
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,897
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere

26 Jan 2015, 8:40 am

I always told my kids to either ignore a bully when they could or if they couldn't then to stand up for themselves, and to always stand up for themselves if the other kid did something physical to them. I was and am a big proponent of hitting back. My mother of course told me to ignore it and to tell on them, which I did for about the first 8 years and that just made things worse. It was some friends I had who forced me to stand up for myself and I'm so grateful to them for that. They also taught me how to act right and spent a lot of time teaching me stuff that was obvious to other people. My mother didn't like it because she was batshit crazy anyway (diagnosed borderline personality disorder when I was in my teens) and she loved the attention she got when I was sickly or bullied or anything like that. If it wasn't for my friends back then I can't imagine what kind of life I would have ended up with. I shudder to think how I would have turned out if I had only my mother to believe and depend on.

The very act of not standing up for yourself sort of implies to yourself that it's somehow justified. I think ignoring it is only good in certain situations, like where doing something back would create a situation that is worse than ignoring it - like when we were in chapel at school and had to be quiet - or situations where you truly don't even think enough of the person bothering you to care at all what they think or say about you. I do think that speaking up, even though it's hard at first, is important because even if it doesn't stop the bullying, it at least reinforces to yourself that you are worth a lot more than the bully says you are.


_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA. ;-)

The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com


Therese04
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2013
Age: 50
Gender: Female
Posts: 74
Location: United States

26 Jan 2015, 7:59 pm

nerdygirl wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
I was bullied horribly and constantly all through school. I've been pantsed, been teased because I liked certain boys who would never have liked me, had a lot of things done like that. It was bullying and horrible. It was embarrassing. I consider it bullying and not sexual harrassment. Of course nowdays it's sexual harrassment to tell a slightly off color joke at work, so I wouldn't be surprised what all is called that now.

As for other girls, my best friend in school was developed way before anybody else and guys were always trying to grab her and snap her bra etc. She would hit them when they did it so she handled herself pretty well. Teachers would make them stop if they saw it, but she didn't run tell on them she handled her business. I would call that kid stuff as well and it didn't upset her and make her cry or traumatize her or anything, it just made her mad and she made sure they knew it. Thats just kids. No, it's not OK and kids should be taught not to do that and they are taught to do that, but kids are still kids and push limits and some are basically assholes and have to learn not to be. I don't think we should hold them to the same standards as adults who completely understand standards of behavior. We can't expect them to act like little well behaved adults at all time. I'm not saying tolerate things we shoulldn't but lets not fly off the handle about things and decide that middle school kids are guilty of sexual harrassment when it's simply them being bad because they are still kids. High school kids doing it is a different story, but saying that it's sexual harrassment when a middle school kid says "Now thats what a woman should look like" is going pretty far overboard, in my opinion.


I'm glad your friend was able to hit the boys. For various reasons, I couldn't hit the boy who snapped my bra.

As far as feeling traumatized by my experiences, I guess that means there was/is something wrong with me...


I have to agree with Nerdygirl. I am an educator and all of what you described is absolutely 100% sexual harassment right down to someone whistling at you while you are walking down the street. A boy snapping a girl's bra is morally degrading and should not be tolerated at any time or at any level. I grew up with 7 brothers, and never once did they ever do something like that to me. My parents would never tolerate it
under any circumstances whatsoever.

I understand your friend was able to stick up for herself, but that is precisely the reason why having AS can be so debilitating, and dangerous at times. Those with AS have difficulty with judgement especially in social situations. This is due to the underdevelopment of the cerebellum which is responsible for social judgement.

They also lack coordination and have poor gross motor skills, which is also controlled by the cerebellum.

Henceforth? If they were to be in a compromising situation and recognized it as such they would have difficulty getting out of it.

They would not be able to think fast enough to knee someone in the balls, and if they did they would lack the coordination to so quickly enough for it to be effective. They would panic and become completely overwhelmed, and freeze up.

Their brain is wired differently. It's not as simple as easy as just making a decision to stick up for oneself. By the time they even realize they are being harassed, the damage has already been done.

It's not a question of having "courage." Aspies are some of the most courageous people I know so if that we the case we wouldn't even be having this conversation. They so not know what to so because this is an impairment in the brain they have little or ok control over.

This is why those with AS are most prone to bullying, and the reason why social skills need to be explicitly taught in schools.

It's the kids around those who are being bullied that need to speak up. The instances of bullying that have been effectively stopped are not the ones where the victim has taken a stand, but when those in the background took a stand rather than just standing around and watching and allowing it to happen.

One book that might be helpful in understanding AS at a deeper level is called, Pretending to be Normal. She talks about a situation she was in where a gentleman came into her college classroom where she taught as a professor and assaulted her, by the time she realized she was in danger it was too late. The only thing that saved her was one of her students who was smart enough to intervene. Had it not been for him, she would have been raped.

People with AS do not have that trigger that most people have in their brains that signifies danger in certain situations. This is why it is so important for those of us who work with and support those with AS to educate ourselves.

Do not question your judgement Nerdygirl. You are spot on!! !