Abusers getting more sympathy?
13 Feb 2015, 8:13 pm
A lot of good points. I agree that sometimes the perception that one is being abused is actually more painful and intolerable than the actual behavior.... other times it may be useful to call it what it is. Let's say you've got some therapist who builds trust with their client. All of a sudden he flips the switch one session, slams the door and announces himself as "Mr. Mean Guy". Continues to assault the victim. I think this person deserves to be called an abusr. If you've ever seen VHS you know what I'm talking about.
Unfortunately, I have an overactive imagination so I sometimes I see bad intent where there is none. Not talking about the above example.
Of course, some people deserve it, but some people don't.
I still don't like the superhero role though, just to get back on topic.
13 Feb 2015, 8:17 pm
A lot of good points. I agree that sometimes the perception that one is being abused is actually more painful and intolerable than the actual behavior.... other times it may be useful to call it what it is. Let's say someone with schizophrenia thinks they are being gang-stalked. The perception is perhaps just as harmful as if it were actually happening to him/her.
Unfortunately, I have an overactive imagination so I sometimes I see bad intent where there is none. Not talking about the above example.
Of course, some people deserve it, but some people don't.
I still don't like the superhero role though, just to get back on topic.
13 Feb 2015, 8:31 pm
League_Girl wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Yelling at a child is not emotional abuse, spanking a child is not physical abuse, taking away privileges is not abuse of any kind. All of these things can be done to an extent and in a way that they can be abuse. That does not mean that these things in and of themselves are abusive in any way. Parents usually find the best ways of discipline that works with their child. Sometimes they use one of the methods, somethings two of them and sometimes all three of them. Sometimes they simply lecture the kids. I've seen kids who have been hollered at a normal amount by normal parents, kids who have been spanked a normal amount by normal parents and kids who have been grounded and had things taken away a normal amount by normal parents and I haven't seen any of them be damaged by that. I've seen kids lectured, and only lectured as discipline a normal amount by normal parents and I've seen some serious damage in the instance of my husbands family from it. It kept those kids under their thumb and afraid of them to this day.
Every parent takes anger out on a child at one time or another. We notice when we do it, apologize for it and try not to do it again. Thats just something that happens to every human being, taking anger out on the wrong person. A parent has to try and make sure the don't do that because kids can drive you nuts.
Of course you don't yell at a kid for peeing in their pants or pooping in them. They can't help it. Unless there is some rare instance of the child refusing to use the bathroom because they simply refuse to, yelling at a child for bathroom mistakes doesn't help anyone at all. Yelling a kid who is refusing to for whatever reason won't help either because the kid has deeper problems than simply not minding the parents like he might not mind them when they say no tv after 9pm or something.
Every parent is human, and every parent makes at least one mistake raising their children. Usually it's not a big deal and nobody worries about it afterward. You can't hold a parent to impossible standards simply because their child is autistic or because someone else feels that their child should have a parent who is perfect. I see people on this forum many times label an entire action as abuse because their parents did something completely normal that they didn't like so they decide it's abusive to all kids. I've actually seen someone insist that their parents were abusive for taking away their computer. These aren't 13 year olds reacting like 13 year olds normally do, these are adults who still talk about and obsess over the time their mom took away the laptop years ago. Just because the child doesn't like it does not make it abuse. Any punishment that you give a child should be something he doesn't like. Otherwise it's a reward. Parents can be less than perfect, and less than the pushovers who constantly hand the child everything he wants and give in to every wish and who sometimes put their needs before their childs needs without being abusive. Abuse isn't just something unpleasant, it's much more than that, but I've seen so many people here lump things that are simply unpleasant in with horrific abuse, which some here have undoubtably suffered, and that mindset is something that those people who can't see the difference between regular parenting and absuive parenting really need to address.
Every parent takes anger out on a child at one time or another. We notice when we do it, apologize for it and try not to do it again. Thats just something that happens to every human being, taking anger out on the wrong person. A parent has to try and make sure the don't do that because kids can drive you nuts.
Of course you don't yell at a kid for peeing in their pants or pooping in them. They can't help it. Unless there is some rare instance of the child refusing to use the bathroom because they simply refuse to, yelling at a child for bathroom mistakes doesn't help anyone at all. Yelling a kid who is refusing to for whatever reason won't help either because the kid has deeper problems than simply not minding the parents like he might not mind them when they say no tv after 9pm or something.
Every parent is human, and every parent makes at least one mistake raising their children. Usually it's not a big deal and nobody worries about it afterward. You can't hold a parent to impossible standards simply because their child is autistic or because someone else feels that their child should have a parent who is perfect. I see people on this forum many times label an entire action as abuse because their parents did something completely normal that they didn't like so they decide it's abusive to all kids. I've actually seen someone insist that their parents were abusive for taking away their computer. These aren't 13 year olds reacting like 13 year olds normally do, these are adults who still talk about and obsess over the time their mom took away the laptop years ago. Just because the child doesn't like it does not make it abuse. Any punishment that you give a child should be something he doesn't like. Otherwise it's a reward. Parents can be less than perfect, and less than the pushovers who constantly hand the child everything he wants and give in to every wish and who sometimes put their needs before their childs needs without being abusive. Abuse isn't just something unpleasant, it's much more than that, but I've seen so many people here lump things that are simply unpleasant in with horrific abuse, which some here have undoubtably suffered, and that mindset is something that those people who can't see the difference between regular parenting and absuive parenting really need to address.
I read a book called Why Me? by Sarah Burleton and it's a kindle book she wrote and it was about her life being abused by her mother growing up and she told me she can't count how many times she has gotten emails from teens telling her how her book improved their relationship with their parents and learned to appreciate them more.
It reminds me of that Full House episode where Stephanie finds out about her annoying classmate being abused by his father and she appreciates her dad more and gets mad at Michelle for saying their dad is mean for taking away the TV for a few days because she was caught making phone calls she shouldn't have made to a joke line and being dishonsest about it. So she tells her big deal and gets upset about her calling their dad mean. Stephanie sure learned something about her father that day.
I think the word abuse gets thrown around too easily and I find it offensive because it trivializes it for everyone else who was actually being abused. People will just roll their eyes and think "yeah right" when someone says they were abused.
I think any child who thinks their mom is so mean to them should give them a copy of A Child Called it or any other book that is about child abuse. Then they will appreciate them more like I have. My mom may have made mistakes but she didn't know any better and I wouldn't call it abuse. She just didn't know my mind worked different and didn't know about AS then but she was still figuring it out before the diagnoses. She didn't know any different because I was her first child and every kid is different so she didn't know any different with what she had to do to teach me. But because she didn't know, I think it taught me to control my condition better so there was a benefit to no early diagnoses but it also taught me to hold in my feelings which is not very healthy and the affects of holding it all in came back and bit me in the ass in 6th grade and boy did my parents have a lot of problems to face and handle and my brothers had to suffer from it too and I was very resentful towards my mother and I was always hitting her. She was my enemy. But I forgave her and we have a good relationship now.
I was not disagreeing with the fact that the words abuse and bullying are used way, way too liberally in modern times. That said, as far as abuse goes, the idea that abusive parents make kids appreciate their own more seems too sentimental to be accurate. I mean, we know about the horrific poverty suffered by tens of millions around the world; that doesn't stop us from feeling bitter when we can't afford the latest technologies and it doesn't consistently make us thankful for what we do have. I am sure that even reading a Child Called It will not suddenly make teenagers or even a majority of them suddenly start to see their parents as wonderful, particularly if they are under the impression that their parents are acting in their own self interest. Often, when kids feel that way, pointing out severe cases of abuse can show them perhaps that they should not call themselves child abuse victims but it won't suddenly make them see their own parents as pure goodness and light. Generally, pointing out that other people have it worse is not effective in consistently getting people to stop feeling bitter and angry.
As for yelling, I was not saying that yelling is automatically child abuse. I was merely saying yelling CAN be considered a form of severe emotional and psychological abuse. Of course yelling at a child for doing something wrong is not necessarily child abuse. Of course spanking, administering discipline and consequences is not automatically child abuse. I do not think anyone was arguing otherwise. But the issue is when we talk of a child being screamed at by parents and assuming it's not child abuse. Screaming at a child, depending particularly on the tone and what exactly is being said to the kid, can be very much abusive especially if it is done consistently.
As far as your mother not knowing about Autism, that is unfortunate. I think that autistics learning to put forth their best effort to control their behavior is a very good thing. But of course your story should be considered an example of how vital awareness is. Parents with kids who are genuinely autistic who expect that simply yelling at them to not stim or mutter out loud or tic or not "act autistic" or think that smacking that kid will solve it are going to face some very severe problems. Awareness should include techniques for how to assist autistic kids in controlling behavior, since we all know that simply telling them to "STOP IT" does not work anymore then yelling at a kid with cerebral palsy to walk properly can get them to do so.
13 Feb 2015, 8:47 pm
League_Girl wrote:
OliveOilMom wrote:
Yelling at a child is not emotional abuse, spanking a child is not physical abuse, taking away privileges is not abuse of any kind. All of these things can be done to an extent and in a way that they can be abuse. That does not mean that these things in and of themselves are abusive in any way. Parents usually find the best ways of discipline that works with their child. Sometimes they use one of the methods, somethings two of them and sometimes all three of them. Sometimes they simply lecture the kids. I've seen kids who have been hollered at a normal amount by normal parents, kids who have been spanked a normal amount by normal parents and kids who have been grounded and had things taken away a normal amount by normal parents and I haven't seen any of them be damaged by that. I've seen kids lectured, and only lectured as discipline a normal amount by normal parents and I've seen some serious damage in the instance of my husbands family from it. It kept those kids under their thumb and afraid of them to this day.
Every parent takes anger out on a child at one time or another. We notice when we do it, apologize for it and try not to do it again. Thats just something that happens to every human being, taking anger out on the wrong person. A parent has to try and make sure the don't do that because kids can drive you nuts.
Of course you don't yell at a kid for peeing in their pants or pooping in them. They can't help it. Unless there is some rare instance of the child refusing to use the bathroom because they simply refuse to, yelling at a child for bathroom mistakes doesn't help anyone at all. Yelling a kid who is refusing to for whatever reason won't help either because the kid has deeper problems than simply not minding the parents like he might not mind them when they say no tv after 9pm or something.
Every parent is human, and every parent makes at least one mistake raising their children. Usually it's not a big deal and nobody worries about it afterward. You can't hold a parent to impossible standards simply because their child is autistic or because someone else feels that their child should have a parent who is perfect. I see people on this forum many times label an entire action as abuse because their parents did something completely normal that they didn't like so they decide it's abusive to all kids. I've actually seen someone insist that their parents were abusive for taking away their computer. These aren't 13 year olds reacting like 13 year olds normally do, these are adults who still talk about and obsess over the time their mom took away the laptop years ago. Just because the child doesn't like it does not make it abuse. Any punishment that you give a child should be something he doesn't like. Otherwise it's a reward. Parents can be less than perfect, and less than the pushovers who constantly hand the child everything he wants and give in to every wish and who sometimes put their needs before their childs needs without being abusive. Abuse isn't just something unpleasant, it's much more than that, but I've seen so many people here lump things that are simply unpleasant in with horrific abuse, which some here have undoubtably suffered, and that mindset is something that those people who can't see the difference between regular parenting and absuive parenting really need to address.
Every parent takes anger out on a child at one time or another. We notice when we do it, apologize for it and try not to do it again. Thats just something that happens to every human being, taking anger out on the wrong person. A parent has to try and make sure the don't do that because kids can drive you nuts.
Of course you don't yell at a kid for peeing in their pants or pooping in them. They can't help it. Unless there is some rare instance of the child refusing to use the bathroom because they simply refuse to, yelling at a child for bathroom mistakes doesn't help anyone at all. Yelling a kid who is refusing to for whatever reason won't help either because the kid has deeper problems than simply not minding the parents like he might not mind them when they say no tv after 9pm or something.
Every parent is human, and every parent makes at least one mistake raising their children. Usually it's not a big deal and nobody worries about it afterward. You can't hold a parent to impossible standards simply because their child is autistic or because someone else feels that their child should have a parent who is perfect. I see people on this forum many times label an entire action as abuse because their parents did something completely normal that they didn't like so they decide it's abusive to all kids. I've actually seen someone insist that their parents were abusive for taking away their computer. These aren't 13 year olds reacting like 13 year olds normally do, these are adults who still talk about and obsess over the time their mom took away the laptop years ago. Just because the child doesn't like it does not make it abuse. Any punishment that you give a child should be something he doesn't like. Otherwise it's a reward. Parents can be less than perfect, and less than the pushovers who constantly hand the child everything he wants and give in to every wish and who sometimes put their needs before their childs needs without being abusive. Abuse isn't just something unpleasant, it's much more than that, but I've seen so many people here lump things that are simply unpleasant in with horrific abuse, which some here have undoubtably suffered, and that mindset is something that those people who can't see the difference between regular parenting and absuive parenting really need to address.
I read a book called Why Me? by Sarah Burleton and it's a kindle book she wrote and it was about her life being abused by her mother growing up and she told me she can't count how many times she has gotten emails from teens telling her how her book improved their relationship with their parents and learned to appreciate them more.
It reminds me of that Full House episode where Stephanie finds out about her annoying classmate being abused by his father and she appreciates her dad more and gets mad at Michelle for saying their dad is mean for taking away the TV for a few days because she was caught making phone calls she shouldn't have made to a joke line and being dishonsest about it. So she tells her big deal and gets upset about her calling their dad mean. Stephanie sure learned something about her father that day.
I think the word abuse gets thrown around too easily and I find it offensive because it trivializes it for everyone else who was actually being abused. People will just roll their eyes and think "yeah right" when someone says they were abused.
I think any child who thinks their mom is so mean to them should give them a copy of A Child Called it or any other book that is about child abuse. Then they will appreciate them more like I have. My mom may have made mistakes but she didn't know any better and I wouldn't call it abuse. She just didn't know my mind worked different and didn't know about AS then but she was still figuring it out before the diagnoses. She didn't know any different because I was her first child and every kid is different so she didn't know any different with what she had to do to teach me. But because she didn't know, I think it taught me to control my condition better so there was a benefit to no early diagnoses but it also taught me to hold in my feelings which is not very healthy and the affects of holding it all in came back and bit me in the ass in 6th grade and boy did my parents have a lot of problems to face and handle and my brothers had to suffer from it too and I was very resentful towards my mother and I was always hitting her. She was my enemy. But I forgave her and we have a good relationship now.
I was not disagreeing with the fact that the words abuse and bullying are used way, way too liberally in modern times. That said, as far as abuse goes, the idea that abusive parents make kids appreciate their own more seems too sentimental to be accurate. I mean, we know about the horrific poverty suffered by tens of millions around the world; that doesn't stop us from feeling bitter when we can't afford the latest technologies and it doesn't consistently make us thankful for what we do have. I am sure that even reading a Child Called It will not suddenly make teenagers or even a majority of them suddenly start to see their parents as wonderful, particularly if they are under the impression that their parents are acting in their own self interest. Often, when kids feel that way, pointing out severe cases of abuse can show them perhaps that they should not call themselves child abuse victims but it won't suddenly make them see their own parents as pure goodness and light. Generally, pointing out that other people have it worse is not effective in consistently getting people to stop feeling bitter and angry.
As for yelling, I was not saying that yelling is automatically child abuse. I was merely saying yelling CAN be considered a form of severe emotional and psychological abuse. Of course yelling at a child for doing something wrong is not necessarily child abuse. Of course spanking, administering discipline and consequences is not automatically child abuse. I do not think anyone was arguing otherwise. But the issue is when we talk of a child being screamed at by parents and assuming it's not child abuse. Screaming at a child, depending particularly on the tone and what exactly is being said to the kid, can be very much abusive especially if it is done consistently.
As far as your mother not knowing about Autism, that is unfortunate. I think that autistics learning to put forth their best effort to control their behavior is a very good thing. But of course your story should be considered an example of how vital awareness is. Parents with kids who are genuinely autistic who expect that simply yelling at them to not stim or mutter out loud or tic or not "act autistic" or think that smacking that kid will solve it are going to face some very severe problems. Awareness should include techniques for how to assist autistic kids in controlling behavior, since we all know that simply telling them to "STOP IT" does not work anymore then yelling at a kid with cerebral palsy to walk properly can get them to do so.
