Made the mistake of reading the parent's forum

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Fitzi
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17 Feb 2015, 11:49 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Yep...you seem to have an excellent attitude about this.

I think your son will thrive, after experiencing the usual slings and arrows of growing up.

With the help of you and his siblings, of course.

You have an enlightened view of people.


Thanks, kraftiekortie!



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17 Feb 2015, 12:06 pm

heavenlyabyss wrote:
I read through a lot of the replies here. I find the various responses and perspectives rather interesting (sometimes I like to take on an outsider's view).

I think it just boils down this: Everyone knows the world is cruel. Everyone knows this. Unfortunately, sometimes parents have to take an action that will not be pleasing to their child in order to prepare them for the world.

If it were up to me and I had a kid, I would just let them pee all over the place and poop wherever they wanted, you now, like the animals do. The reason parenting is so difficult is because of society. The whole entire world knows society is wrong and yet it is the most benevolent thing to teach them how to assimilate into it. Does this seem weird to anyone??

I don't know. It's just weird. Animals, they poop and pee wherever they want. Humans don't do this.

Lol.



But you sure teach them to go outside but I know some dogs who have refused to go outside, not because they don't know or because they are old and their brains don't work right anymore or because they have incontinence.


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InThisTogether
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17 Feb 2015, 12:59 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
InThisTogether wrote:
It is one thing to give your kids the skills they need to "pass" when they want/need to.

It is an entirely different thing to force them to "pass" because it is what you want for them.


I respectfully (and adamantly) disagree. It's the parent’s responsibility to prepare the child for coming adulthood. This involves guiding them and sometimes forcing them to do things they otherwise would not want to do. Unless of course the parent wants the child to be dependent upon them for the rest of their lives. Which, of course, isn't practical as the child will more than likely outlive both parents.

As such, it has nothing to do with what the child wants. It's what the parents believe is best for the child. This is the case, always. If the parent does not do what's best for the child in preparing the child for coming adulthood, the parent - in my opinion - is failing.



I don't think I am being clear in what I mean. By "passing" I mean, literally, learning to suppress the things that make you obviously atypical. I don't mean teaching people every day life skills. I agree with you that it is a parent's job to ensure that the kid gains whatever skills are possible for them in preparation for adulthood. I don't think there are many parents out there--if any--who would advocate for not guiding, and sometimes forcing, your kid to do things they don't want to do. All parents have to force their kid to do things sometimes. ASD or NT

Examples of what I meant: my son does not share some of his special interests with others because they are not "typical" for an 8th grade boy. Others, he tones down the amount he talks about it, because he is aware that although other kids his age might like it, they probably won't like it as much as he does. In 5th grade we spent a lot of time talking about "things that make me a target" because he knew he was seen as different by his peers, but he didn't understand why. So, I had to very painfully point it all out to him. He actually felt empowered by it, because he finally felt he had some degree of control over how others responded to him. For example, he had no idea that others would find it strange for him to randomly walk up to people, pull asphalt out of his pocket, and talk about asphalt. It is easy enough to leave your asphalt in your pocket to show your family when you get home and to not discuss it with anyone at school.

My daughter rarely flaps in public, but she will still flap and hop at home on occasion. She does not do many of her other stims in public, but she will sometimes do them at home. She has learned how to socially laugh at things other kids her age think are funny that she does not. Both of them "know how" to fake acceptable eye contact and mostly do it around others, but they don't always maintain eye contact at home.

Knowing how to "fake" NT traits and how to hide their neuro-atypical ones helps them "pass." I was wondering how others feel about parents--or me--teaching my kids how to do these things, while not expecting them to do any of it at home. That is what I was trying to suggest.


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cubedemon6073
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17 Feb 2015, 2:45 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
Rocket123 wrote:
InThisTogether wrote:
It is one thing to give your kids the skills they need to "pass" when they want/need to.

It is an entirely different thing to force them to "pass" because it is what you want for them.


I respectfully (and adamantly) disagree. It's the parent’s responsibility to prepare the child for coming adulthood. This involves guiding them and sometimes forcing them to do things they otherwise would not want to do. Unless of course the parent wants the child to be dependent upon them for the rest of their lives. Which, of course, isn't practical as the child will more than likely outlive both parents.

As such, it has nothing to do with what the child wants. It's what the parents believe is best for the child. This is the case, always. If the parent does not do what's best for the child in preparing the child for coming adulthood, the parent - in my opinion - is failing.



I don't think I am being clear in what I mean. By "passing" I mean, literally, learning to suppress the things that make you obviously atypical. I don't mean teaching people every day life skills. I agree with you that it is a parent's job to ensure that the kid gains whatever skills are possible for them in preparation for adulthood. I don't think there are many parents out there--if any--who would advocate for not guiding, and sometimes forcing, your kid to do things they don't want to do. All parents have to force their kid to do things sometimes. ASD or NT

Examples of what I meant: my son does not share some of his special interests with others because they are not "typical" for an 8th grade boy. Others, he tones down the amount he talks about it, because he is aware that although other kids his age might like it, they probably won't like it as much as he does. In 5th grade we spent a lot of time talking about "things that make me a target" because he knew he was seen as different by his peers, but he didn't understand why. So, I had to very painfully point it all out to him. He actually felt empowered by it, because he finally felt he had some degree of control over how others responded to him. For example, he had no idea that others would find it strange for him to randomly walk up to people, pull asphalt out of his pocket, and talk about asphalt. It is easy enough to leave your asphalt in your pocket to show your family when you get home and to not discuss it with anyone at school.

My daughter rarely flaps in public, but she will still flap and hop at home on occasion. She does not do many of her other stims in public, but she will sometimes do them at home. She has learned how to socially laugh at things other kids her age think are funny that she does not. Both of them "know how" to fake acceptable eye contact and mostly do it around others, but they don't always maintain eye contact at home.

Knowing how to "fake" NT traits and how to hide their neuro-atypical ones helps them "pass." I was wondering how others feel about parents--or me--teaching my kids how to do these things, while not expecting them to do any of it at home. That is what I was trying to suggest.


Ahhh! I get it. In concrete terms, What you're saying is you want your children to have the tools in their tool box but you don't want to force your kids to use the tools in the toolbox or force them to get the toolbox off the shelf. You want them to have the tools available to them though. Is this what you're saying?



kraftiekortie
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17 Feb 2015, 2:49 pm

They certainly need the tools.

They need to know when to use them.

They need to know when they don't have to use them.



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17 Feb 2015, 3:43 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:

Ahhh! I get it. In concrete terms, What you're saying is you want your children to have the tools in their tool box but you don't want to force your kids to use the tools in the toolbox or force them to get the toolbox off the shelf. You want them to have the tools available to them though. Is this what you're saying?


Yes. Now, I think it is important to note that my kids are capable of doing these things without exerting extreme effort. By that, I mean that it takes more effort for them than for a typical kid, but it is not too difficult for them to do it for a defined period of time. I imagine there are some things that some kids may never be able to do and I think it would be unfair to try to "put those things in their toolbox" because the expectation in and of itself may not be reasonable (if that makes sense.)

Another important skill that I have had more success teaching my son than my daughter is the ability to laugh at oneself and just blow it off if someone else laughs at you. My son's literal language interpreter is set on "high" at all times. Sometimes it leads to really funny miscommunications and misinterpretations. He is able to recover from this by pretty much taking it in stride, and I think because he is able to laugh at himself, and sometimes even purposely exaggerates for comic effect, other kids see it as endearing. My daughter has a much harder time laughing at herself and an even harder time if she perceives anyone as having laughed at her. She takes things very seriously. She is getting maybe just a little bit better at this, but I don't think she will ever be able to master it the way her brother has, so I am going to have to figure out some other compensatory strategy for her to use when she makes a "mistake." Right now she either turns mute or starts crying really hard. Those are not things that encourage other kids to spend time with you.


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17 Feb 2015, 4:01 pm

I always point out behaviors/interests/clothing choices that are likely to get DS ridiculed. But I let him choose what to do with that information. Sometimes he chooses to modify, and sometimes not. I think it's important for him to learn how to "pick his battles", so to speak.



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17 Feb 2015, 4:48 pm

My mom was the one always telling me to not do things because she didn't want me to be picked on and have anyone think I am weird. Then when I got to a certain age, she gave up and decided to have it be my problem and if I get teased, my own darn problem. Let me figure it out. I have said before in the past on this forum, tell the kid the consequence and let them decide. I am sure some parents do it with their normal kids too and I am sure it can be hard for the parent to make that decision because no parent would want their kid to be teased and harassed or bullied or be singled out.


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17 Feb 2015, 5:19 pm

Teaching me to suppress atypical behaviors was something that my parents didn't do with me, and I am rather glad for it, because it is ackshuly harder in my opinion to suppress atypical behaviors than learn some typical social behaviors and apply them in functional or casual interactions. That is what I meant by my parents letting me be myself, that they didn't do this suppression thing at all, nor point out when I would get ridiculed, possibly because they themselves don't know this kind of thing well. They did teach me how to do non-social things of adult life, some of it they didn't eggsplicitly teach me, but they just pushed me into doing it myself, and I figured it out myself. They also pushed me into communication from a fairly young age about 10, shortly after I learned speaking fluently, so that helped a lot too. For some people, pushiness is good, because they do respond with more effort and results, I have seen this from some students, that they do much better when pushed simply due to putting in more effort.


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17 Feb 2015, 5:34 pm

In my experience this community has been very supportive. Over the years I have posted periodically with questions and issues because I like to get feedback from other parents and adults with ASD. I live in an area with very little awareness of ASD in general and I have no one to talk with about it. I adore my daughter (dx'd at 4 1/2 with Asperger's) and most of the other parents I have "met" on this forum seem to love and support their children as best they can. Several other posters to this thread have put it better then me - but I don't view myself as trying to change my daughter or not appreciating who she is. But I do try to give her the tools to succeed, the ability to make her own decisions (even if I don't agree with them), the goals being college, job, relationships and an independent life as she chooses. Sending my best :) :heart: to all!



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20 Feb 2015, 2:17 pm

For "passing", I feel like that's probably something that comes somewhat organically for each individual... and based on their ability and interest in observing other humans and copying their behavior, they are going to figure out how to "pass", if that's something that's useful or desirable. And how the person feels about that may change over time. Like one of the other posters here, I know I worked really hard to "pass" as a kid and a young adult, but it was exhausting. In fact I "passed" so well that I didn't really see my own ASD, because I compared myself to my brother, who didn't try to "pass" at all. Now, as an adult, I've realized that the effort to "pass" is too exhausting and I don't get enough out of it to really justify all that effort. I'd prefer to just be alone more. Luckily I'm able to work at home, so I can get away with that. If I had to work in an office, I'd probably have to start some kind of medication to cope.

I think about this with my son, and that's when I start to wonder how much it's my role to push for more than that "organic" process of each individual's instinct/interest to learn to "pass"-- how to prepare him to live in an NT world, and to have as many options as possible. Based on my son's interests and his personality (he's much more extroverted than me), I think he will probably head towards a career that won't be possible as a shut-in at home, like I pretty much am. And so that means learning how to be around other people, not alienate everyone, and not be miserable and exhausted all the time from being around other people who have a different way of behaving. But at the same time, it's always been made clear that this isn't about him being "wrong" and we're teaching him to be "right". It's more like... if you were a native English-speaker, and you got a job in France, then it would behoove you to learn French. But that doesn't mean you're going to stop speaking English, when you're with your English-speaking friends and family. Or that your native language is "wrong" and French is "right", just because you start using French at your job. It's just a tool.

When there are behaviors that are truly frustrating (for HIM) or which are causing HIM unhappiness, then we address it differently. And not from a standpoint of "you are broken and need a remedy", but more like, okay, this situation exists and it's frustrating you. What can we do to make it better?

The biggest problem I have is when I disagree with, say, school staff about what is a "problem". If his differences aren't hurting anything, and he is learning and having a good time, then I don't see a problem. Whereas they are more like a clear graph where their happiness goes up in a direct line with how "normal" he can be. And that's a problem. So much so that I'm always teetering on the edge of pulling him out. And I have to advocate for him constantly, which is very difficult for ME (since I don't want to deal with other people at all, because of my OWN issues.)

It was very striking how, before he began school, life was all wonderful. He had no need to "pass" and therefore there was no "disability". There was no question of teaching him to "pass" because we didn't see anything "wrong" with him. We knew he was different, but "different" was not synonymous with "bad" or "wrong" or "defective". He was delightful.

As soon as he starts school, that changes. His behavior is problematic for everyone in that environment (not so much because he was being disruptive or dangerous, but really because he wasn't doing what he was "supposed" to be doing like everyone else, and they didn't know what to do about that) and therefore he was suddenly "disabled". And I had to gradually come around to agree that, on some level, yes, he was "disabled" in that environment (even though I don't like that word, because it's so judgy for so many people-- comes along with a nice big helping of condescension and a massive underestimation of his intelligence and potential.) And I had to admit that while I *personally* don't feel that his "differences" are bad, wrong, embarrassing, "diseased", or whatever someone else wants to call them, most of the outside world seems to think so. And so to mitigate all of that, yes, learning to "pass" can be helpful-- so that people will get off his back, let him do his thing, exist, learn, make friends, etc.... SHOULD he have to? No. But it's the reality.



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01 Mar 2015, 10:37 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
ominous wrote:
Well there's my thread trying to meet like-minded parents gone to $5ht before it started. Thanks for making it about you. If anyone is interested in parenting discussions like I mentioned please PM me.



It certainly wasnt about me at all. It was about how you came across.

"I made a mistake come here, most of you people are crap! I hate the way you think and your opinions and I just want to meet people who think the correct way like I do! I had hope there would be decent people here and while I doubt there are I'd like to extend an invitation to any decent people to contact me so we can be friends."

Thats exactly how your post came across. It has absolutely nothing to do with me, and I didn't get offended because I have no desire to be considered worthy by strangers on the internet. I simply pointed out, and am pointing out, how you came across. My calling you out on it only caused you to accuse me of making it about me.

Sorry, but thats not how it is. You can blame me and make up stuff about what I did and am doing all day long. It doesn't change how you came across and come across a lot.

Not my bad.


So, now we're supposed to be PC now and watch our words and our tone. You keep leading the charge and beating the drums about people being offended about things?

Which is it? Are we supposed to be PC or are we not? Are people supposed to take offense at things and be professional victims or are they not? Your standards make no sense because they're inconsistent. You bash people for PC yet you demand some PC yourself. Why?