AI Gods,, Transhumanism, and Transcendence...

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Recently there's been a lot of speculation about the idea of super-intelligent AIs & the eventual emergence of so-called 'AI Gods' through the 'Singularity' (a level of intelligence that's so far above us that a being reaching such a level is completely incomprehensible to us), as well as ideas of transhumanism (evolving beyond the human state while still remaining human) & transcendence (leaving the human state behind entirely).

Examples include the movie Transcendence, the show Person of Interest, and the 'hard' sci-fi collaboration Orion's Arm.

I'm very interested what people on here think about the ideas of super-intelligent AIs, the Signularity, transhumanism, and transcendence.

Is it possible that humans and/or our machines will take one or all of these paths in the near future, or is it all just scientific fantasy?


Personally, I have some hopes that our species & its non-related children may achieve such things, but I'm not really sure how much of it I really believe is possible.

Certainly cyborgization which is a central feature of transhumanism has already begun, albeit only to help the disabled at this point, and nano-scale engineering & genetic engineering have both produced promising results which suggests that elements from these disciplines may soon enough become part of transhumanist tranformations.
So it seems to me that we've already started along the path of transhumanism, and that we're likely to continue futher down this path in the near future.

On the other hand a human intelligence equivalent strong AI has yet to be successfully created, nor has anyone proved that it is even potentially possible to create one, so I remain relatively skeptical about the possibility of super-intelligent AIs & AI Gods.

Likewise, no one has proven that it's even potentially possible to transfer either thoughts or memories from an organic brain to a digital format, so the idea of technological transcendence seems relatively far-fetched at this point to me.

The Singularity is one idea that I have to admit that I can't wrap my head around or get behind. It's not that I believe that it's impossible for there to be an intelligence which is incomprehensible, nor that massive increases in intelligence are impossible.
I just don't see how a massive increase in intelligence would necessarily ever reach a point at which a being became incomprehensible simply because they were so intelligent, and yet this seems to be almost an article of faith among people who talk about strong AI & super-intelligence.


In any case, I am very interested in these subjects and was hoping that some of you folks might have some insight into them.
What do you guys think about these ideas?

I believe the term for God-like AI's is artilects and I figure by the time we have computers and robots with far beyond our own brain's processing powers building computers and robots that stetch the limits of their own cogitating powers - we'll have the I Robot situation.

When you think about it - when it comes to doing what's logical with human culture, population, and how we do things we're very badly in arrears if measured by something superintelligent that's hyper-logical and not particularly empathetic. The result of that - it would likely set to work doing all the things we don't have the guts to do, like depopulating the planet or dabbling in genetic engineering, creating it's own utopia for us, etc..

I'd have to give that a very mixed review; it might save the future of humanity but it would SUCK to be alive while it's doing its work.

Good thread, Bodyles - I have a strong interest in the subject.

I'm assuming you're not in the UK, otherwise you'd have seen the movie Ex Machina - which is a stunning movie (you must see it)

I have lots of thoughts - do you have specific areas of interest, or just the general concept?

Maybe mankind is a form of AI - now there's a thought

As a starter for ten:

1) Look up Psychophysics
2) Read into the subject of Neural Correlates
3) Check out this site - http://www.humanconnectomeproject.org/


Fantastic/inspiring/beautiful - the history of mankind is the history of exploration - long may it continue.

Thanks.
Glad I'm not alone.



I'll download & watch it.



Good question.

I have many specific areas of interest & I'm also interested in the general concepts.

I'm very interested in AIs & the problems of consciousness, general intelligence, sentience, sapience, and sophonce as well as issues of sensory insufficiency/glut & sanity.

I'm also very interested in transhumanism including life-extension, self-augmentation & modification (physical, mental, and neural), genetic improvement, modification, and diversification, and symbioses (physical, mental, and neural).

I'm intrigued by the possibility of transcendence as a sort of merger of transhumanism & AI in that it involves human consciousness becoming AI consciousness, but it seems far-fetched & hugely problematic in that if one were to transcend the resulting entity would only be a copy of one's self & one's orginal self would either go on as it was or more likely be destroyed.
Therefore it seems like trancedence is a more like a way to create an AI copy of oneself rather than a way to actually become an AI.
If some way was found to provide continuity of consciousness throughout the process it would be a different story, but to do that it would seem that the exact nature of human consciousness would need to be understood, which seems unlikely to happen any time soon.
Still, the idea of having copies of oneself & backups & such is fairly interesting, even if it wouldn't be 'me', it would sort of be like 'me' having a second chance.

The idea of super-intelligence & the Singularity & the AI Gods which lie beyond it is something that interests me, but it seems almost too fantastical to really contemplate outside the realm of speculative fiction until someone proves that a human-equivalent strong AI is actually feasible.
If they do however, that'll truly put the cat amongst the pigeons & no doubt.



Thanks, I'll check that stuff out.

Luciferism is just an escape from nihilism. I believe transhumanism is just a current form of luciferism and I reject that path out of nihilisms. I want to believe that we should live for ourself as the MORAL and not try to seek a falsehood of godhood. Transhumanism is a escape from death rather than the acceptances of it. It is for people who want to run from the abyss of death rather than fighting it. However, I still believe that AI is a great thing and I believe is the next step in human evolution. Before, you say it is not evolution, I believe it is as it is self evolution through our own will. If the AI destroy us, it is our fate as it is just Darwinism.

I do love exploring these ideas, though I doubt we'll see much of transhumanism (except via more advances in prosthetics), and we almost certainly won't see any trancendence in the next several thousand years. But it's fun to speculate and form fictional plot-lines.

Science is the walls of a zoo.

Human mind is a Universe unto itself.

The more humans become a systemizing zoo the less TRUE human potential is created in terms of freedom and not living AS a Zoo or prison.

And computers will never be advanced enough to understand what I just stated, as I created it and no one else other than me ever has.

I am not a parakeet or a computer as my mind blows both of those away to smithereens...

Freedom is not being a Zoo.

And AI knows no better than systemizing way...

I've already done and am in the process of continuing to do the transcendence thingy that is an all natural creative organic process of expanding a synergy of human 'intelligences' baffling 'science' along the way...

And as history shows some folks will and others will not...JUST do this transcendence thingy...

Bruce Lee is another clear example, documented in modern history, who has done this...

However, each human transcendence, as all truly human experience, is a unique and non-repeatable experience...as experiment...

Only the most fearful of creatures want or need to control the future or systemize the present...

Meanwhile others LIVE in CREATIVITY and for practical intents and purposes GOD IS Creation Activity...

Some PEOPLE reflect GOD and others 'better' reflect artificial intelligence, as a systemizing rather than creative way of life...

People living in robotic cognitive mind and body imbalance often perceive HUMan as bizarrely different.

That's how unique experiments WORK AKA the expression of a much fuller synergy of human intelligences, by way of 'Quantum' human mind AND BODY in balance UNLEASHED; YES, in DEED, bizarre to non-initiated minds and bodies, out of balance...

And to be 'clear', the leash on life is modern systemization, for those 'humans' who are RULED by 'IT', instead of 'those' HUMANS WHO take advantage of IT.

The development of moral concepts, at core, come from human affective empathy.

While AI can be programmed for human 'cognitive' empathy, neither 'psychopaths' or 'humans' can be programmed to actually experience affective empathy, to ACTUaLLy create a golden 'rule' of LOVING morality.

Some humans can neither define Love or give it, as they simply do not experience it.

Humans will do 'better' to REcreate humans, WHo, for most practical intents and purposes are beings being created as AI, by robotic mind and body, out of balance, leaning cultures...

I for one, am no longer RObot.. literAlly AND metaphoricAlly, TG, THE GOD THAT IS CreATion AcTivITy.

i NOT ROBOT.

Signed,

'NEO!'

One of the reasons i create a UNIQUE CREATIVE style of FREE verse nude POETRY..in adult restricted blog way..

IS:

I WANT TO REMIND THE 'WORLD' WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN..

AS before the 'Apple' when creativITy IS the way of life,
and systemization IS an overALL minor part of life.

SADLY enough, only 'HUMANS' CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.

i CAN ONLY

HOPE.. with my own
RELATIVE FREE WILL..

ONE DAY

'they' WILL.....'REMEMBER' 'THAT' AGAIN, TOO..

AND TO BE CLEAR,

HELL YES, I READILY ADMIT, I LIVED
DECADES, AS A FRIGGING ROBOT, AND
AM RECOGNIZED AS SUCH, BY THE REMAINING
'HUMANS'....then.. and those numbers are growing
ever present lower....NOW.

NOW, I AM RECOGNIZED AS BIZARRE..

MY MERIT OF HONOR
FOR
TRULY BEING, AT CORE, WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN,

PER DIFFERENT, STANDING OUT,

FROM

THE
CROWD OF 'other' robots.....and or sheep.....or and herd
of no longer heard.....

i'm just another 'Robin Williams' standing on a desk....



To create ONE'S OWN 'voice' AND to ADD VERSE(S) to the UNIverse IS TO TRANSCEND THE MUNDANE OF SYSTEMIZING 'human' EXISTENCE.

PEOPLE WHO achieve this in ALL ARTS of GOD's Creativity are constantly FINDING NEW WAYS OF EXPRESSING TRUER FULLER REALITY TO THOSE who are lost in systemizing mechanical ways of life.....

'We' are not a flint stone..

'i' choose to
be
'FRED FLINTSTONE',

instead.....

'simply' 'cause i for one, HAVE THE RELATIVE FREE WILL, AND THE SELF EMPOWERING EMOTIONS OF FAITH, HOPE, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY
BELIEF, PER THE 'ORACLE', IN THE 'MATRIX' MOVIE TRILOGY IN THE ENDING SCENE



TO

'JUST DO IT'.....



And Michael Jordan is

like

GOD too....

Anyone who 'stands' OUT is


too.....

'NIHILISM' IS JUST THE SAME THING repeated over and over and over

again....

otherwise known as INSANITY, PER THE GREAT PHILOSOPHER
EINSTEIN...

To truly COME AGAIN..

IS

to

CREATE SOMETHING NEW.

That's pART of why tHere is no metaphorical life in the bible, when practiced as literal, and certainly NOT being

REBORN

AGAIN in the much greater human potential of CREATION ACTIVITY, IN BOTH INPUT AND OUTPUT OF 'DIGITAL AND ANALOG' LIFE, BALANCED AS SUCH IN REASON AND EMOTION WITH PHYSICAL INTELLIGENCE AS THE CORE DRIVING FORCE OF ALL OF THAT,

AS EVEN infanTile science shows now....

TO LIVE IS TO LITERaLLy CREATE..

ANYtHING ELSE
IS TO DiE

IN
METaphor
alive...

So-called bicameralism, suggesting that 'we' today, have 'some kind' of evolved mind over the folks who lived in so-called Homer's 'Iliad days', is ludicrous, as neither the human mind has truly evolved in several thousand of years in classical evolution nor has the human body truly devolved in classical evolution, in just 12 thousand years to a soft weak human being that can no longer do the incredible feats of strength, of some other primate cousins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

Humans, today, live in an overall, 'speaking' culture, rather than an interpreting culture, moreover, as humanity itself is becoming text instead of flesh and blood, in modern 'IT' ways.

First it is books, now it is texting that is literally killing more fuller ways of HUMAN nonverbal language, and other sensory and visually symbolic ways of interpreting the nature that exists all around an individual's perceptions of REALITY AS IS, simply NOW.

FIFTY PERCENT of individuals with Asperger's syndrome are assessed in science has having extreme difficulties in this area, per non-verbal learning disorder symptoms, also associated with damage to the right hemisphere of the brain that is the INTERPRETING RATHER THAN SPEAKING AREA OF THE BRAIN.

THROUGH the development of complex recorded written language and the proliferation of the use of this social sign language way of socially communicating, human being is increasingly becoming a functionally disabled animal through negative neuroplasticity and potentially negative epigenetics, as well.

One reason people are falling away from religion is 'they' no longer have the FUNCTIONAL ABILITY to understand the metaphorical meaning in the words of 'sacred text' that are simply meant to relay self-evident innate instinctually intuitive REALITIES ABOUT EXISTENCE, AKA human EXISTENTIAL INTELLIGENCE.

Physical intelligence driving emotional regulation, sensory integration, cognitive executive functioning (including focus and short term memory), is no longer even practiced the majority of the day of a human being evolved to JUST DO THIS EVERY DAY FOR SURVIVAL, NOW.

TO SIT STILL, TO LOOK FORWARD, TO FIXATE ON A SPOT OF LANDSCAPE 2 FEET AWAY, FOR HOURS ON END EVERYDAY, IS SIMPLY HUMAN INSANITY, PER THAT DEFINITION BY EINSTEIN OF WHAT INSANITY TRULY MEANS.

TO DO THIS, IS TO LOSE self awareness in fuller mindful awareness of what it even means to be HUMAN IN THE NOW OF PRACTICING HUMAN BEING IN THE FULLER POTENTIAL IT CAN BE, AS EVOLVED, AS SUCH, IN CLASSICAL EVOLUTION.

IT IS NOT 'HUMAN' THAT IS TRULY SMART.

IT IS APE
THAT IS STRONG AT CORE
OF WHAT THAT MEANS

TO EVEN BE

A HUMAN BEING....IN MIND AND BODY EMOTIONAL, SENSORY, AND COGNITIVE EXECUTIVE FUNCTIONING FOCUS/SHORT TERM WORKING MEMORY BALANCE.. AS MORE FULLY SELF-AWARE (A 'RIGHT-BRAIN' FUNCTION) IN MINDFUL AWARENESS OF EVEN LIVING

NOW.

MOST PEOPLE, NOW, in our modern cultures live an illusion of 'time', overall, in a long term memory of the past through the device of written complex language or a fantasy of the future, from remembering the similar.

Truly this is a limiting way

of
just living

THE TRUE reality that

both our ancestors

and other

animals live..

THaT IS

NOW.

Culture, THE TRUE VIRUS, in all its abstract language and OTHER complex cultural illusory ways is responsible for literal human hell..

IN many ways manifest of 'that' now, including one-third of school age children assessed as type-two pre-diabetic; close to 50% of the population on some kind of pain killer for chronic pain; and skyrocketing rates of prescriptions for anti-depressants and other psycho-tropic drugs to 'cure' human misery.

Sure, tHere is a WELL DOCUMENTED transcendence to a human singularity

'WELL' in progress..

'ALL READY'.. AND CONTINUING TO EXPAND TO..

The singularity of THE CULTURAL

VIRUS PRODUCING

METAPHORICAL
AND
LITERAL

HUMAN

HELL..

IN A NOT
SO
BRAVE
NEW
WORLD....

Oh and by A way,

IN case anyone is wondering
why i include 'Shepherd of Fire', as theme music
to this last part..

THAT SHEPHERD is simply yOur
'right-brain' attempting to

BREAK FREE
and
SAVE

yoUR
heArt Soul

and

spirIT

tRuly


ALiVE..

And the previous song named 'Breakdown', by the Alan Parson's Project
is truly a satire on the so-called 'breakdown' of the
Bicameral mind.

One might ask, how I figure that out..

It IS NOT so-called school that takes me


tHere..

IT is the 'Quantum' human mind and body
balanced, unleashed, and released

at least,

in my

case....

that brings
me
heRe..

too...daTe..NOW.

I find it interesting, and I hope to breach the first toposophic at some point in the next several centuries, but I don't agree with the singularity cloud who think everything is going to change beyond all recognition in the next few decades. Exponential growth before has always stopped, I don't see why it won't in the case of computer power, and I'm not convinced software is growing at anything close to the rate hardware is (which means if it does happen, we probably will see a hard takeoff...).

What I *do* see happening in the plausible near future (<20 years in the future) is (1) the transition to an abundance based economy with far fewer working hours, (2) the abolition of extreme global poverty, (3) the development and widespread adoption of AI assistants which will be capable of providing education and healthcare (i.e. largely replacing GPs), (4) the adoption of augmented reality, leading to LARPing becoming a major form of gaming, (5) genetic engineering and stem cells allowing the healing of genetic diseases, possibly enabling the Humanity 1.1 project to debug the human genome, and allowing us to grow replacement organs in the lab; these will lead to a signficant extension in health human lifespan.

In the plausible mid future (20<t<200 years in the future), I predict the abolition of ageing, cancer, dementia etc, extensive cyborgisation among certain individuals, the Humanity 1.2 (H1.2) project that will lead to humans being able to regenerate, the first known launch of (fast) starships, possibly the first upload of a human mind, probably the development of von Neumann machines. The Solar System will be extensively colonised, including the Oort cloud. Some cyborg clades will attempt substantial intelligence augmentation. The average sophont will be a near-baseline H1.2 who will carry around with them a cache of a significant amount of human knowledge and culture. The total sophont population will measure somewhere in the region of 50-500 billion, with trillions of non-sophont AI agents serving them.

If interested in the general concepts, a good grounding is studying existentialism/phenomenology.



The main hurdle will possibly be moral - primarily religious i.e. the concept of the soul.

The sooner we begin successful human head transplants, the better. We'll then find out if the soul is in the body, or is generated by the mind into the host body - or exists at all.

The main issue for the layman (as seen even in responses to this subject/thread) appears to be the one outlined above, plus what it means to 'be'/to have a sense of individuality.

In the meantime, the scientists will keep working away in their respective fields i.e. quantum computation, informatics, neuroscience etc - and we'll all reap the benefits of their work.