Can a person be both autistic and a narcissist?

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B19
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04 Apr 2015, 3:46 pm

One pattern often seen in the family with an NPD parent with more than one child is very different treatment of the children - one child is typically chosen as the "Golden Child" who can do no wrong, whom the narcissist grooms, bribes, indulges relentlessly to shape the child in the parent's own 'golden image'. The other child or children are treated very very differently - the Scapegoat has a terrible time in these families, growing up (though they usually emerge into adulthood as the ones who can see what happened, the Golden Children generally go on just the same as the older narcissist/s in the family, to recreate the scenario and damage a lot of lives along the way).

So, Dianthus, your question is can a person be both autistic and a narcissist? Given the intense and obsessive shaping that NPDs do on a Golden Child, (often the first born, not always though), the answer is theoretically yes; however in real life, narcissists don't want children whom others might view as flawed in any way - the world outside the family has to be shown a show of a perfect child to feed the parent's need for narcissistic supply. The parent uses the child's "perfection" as a self-reflection, much more than just the run of the mill parent likes to take pride in their children's achievements. Possibly a very HFA child chosen and cast and moulded in the classic Golden Child role could be both autistic and narcissistic.

But NPDs are actors, dissemblers, liars, relentlessly calculating and performing, creating and acting out a false persona to the world.. not many people on the spectrum can do that for any length of time.

So to your question, personally I think it is possible, yes, but so rare as to be unrepresentative. That's my answer, anyway.



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05 Apr 2015, 3:51 am

Co-morbidity of several psychological conditions are possible yes.

That is one of the reasons why some have a problem getting a proper diagnosis.



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06 Apr 2015, 4:13 pm

Amity wrote:
dianthus wrote:
Can autism and narcissism be co-morbid?

I dont know the answer, but why not?
NPD is developed, an environmentally conditioned disorder.
Why would people with ASD be impervious to the environmental conditions required to develop this disorder?
My thoughts on it as an ASD comorbid, is that I think it is more likely for an undiagnosed Autist to develop symptoms as a survival mechanism, than someone diagnosed in childhood. If a person becomes fixated on the outward image as a method of fitting in, could the survival based importance of being an effective chameleon 24/7 distort a persons priorities?
Can a person have ASD and a PD diagnosis?



Oh, geez..... I was just gonna start a thread asking if Narcissism was innate, or learned----then I saw THIS thread, and I think this post is pretty friggin' perfect!! It seems I have never met a narcissist that wasn't ALSO a spoiled-rotten BRAT----which would suggest it is a "learned" behavior----like, narcissism is spoiled-rotten, on steroids, maybe. (I don't think EVERY brat is narcissistic.) Also, the question of "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?", comes to mind----did the "spoiled-rotten" spawn the narcissism, or vice-versa?

Anyway----in answer to the OP: I don't know the answer, EITHER----but, I would truly LOVE to know, because I had often thought my sister was an ASDer----but, something didn't "fit", just right----maybe it was because she has this what I call "sidecar" (co-morbidity). She says she's been diagnosed with ADHD, but I don't believe her----something tells me she's just saying it cuz it's the "happening" thing to proclaim.





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06 Apr 2015, 5:05 pm

Narcissists are stuck in a childhood phase, basically about the mindset of a 6 year old.

I think my mom's father is probably autistic. And her mother was probably a narcissist.

What happens when a narcissist pairs up with an autistic partner? What kind of dynamic is most likely to play out with the children?

My mom is the middle child. I think her older sister was basically the scapegoat (that is, within their family unit, up until they decided to make my dad the scapegoat of mom's entire side of the family). My aunt was the free-spirited one who butted heads most with my grandmother and got out of her clutches. My mom on the other hand was always the good, quiet, perfect, helpful child. But she says that her older sister and younger brother got all the attention growing up, and she was ignored, invisible.

Since my grandmother died, now my mother acts just like my grandmother used to...cold, domineering, bullying. Well, except when she's putting on the innocent act around other people, and garnering praise for herself.



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06 Apr 2015, 5:14 pm

I've seen examples of ASD women married to NPD (NT) men, close up. What happens is that the health and well-being of the non-NPD partner is progressively undermined, and the victim shows typical symptoms of abused partners. The NPD partner however sets the scene outside the privacy of the relationship so that roles are seen in reverse: he is the victim of this "mentally ill" partner, (poor thing, she can't help it, poor me, I do everything to help her) and garners support, sympathy and admiration - another source of narcissistic supply. These marriages don't last forever because NPDs dump people after they are sucked dry/deliberately destroyed.

This post is just one drop in a much bigger ocean about what those marriages are like, not intended as a comprehensive answer at all.



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07 Apr 2015, 8:44 am

Something else I have wondered about is; can the parent of a non NT child develop more symptoms of narcissism as result of the child's inability to gel and thrive in society? Or does the predisposition exist and the experience of the 'imperfect child' intensifies the symptoms?



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07 Apr 2015, 10:55 pm

League_Girl wrote:
The excuse part that is and it looked clear to me she seemed blind to her actions so of course she couldn't take responsibility. She was always right in her view. But yet she knowledge one time she has problems but then said it was too late for her to fix them.


Whatever is going on with her, that's really sad. I can't imagine giving up on myself like that. I can always do better!

Anyway, I think (and I could be wrong here, obviously), that folks on the spectrum are much more willing to see themselves dispassionately and to see problems with how we interact with others. We may take longer to understand the patterns than an NT would, but I think we have the ability to get a deeper sense of our own flaws and how we can improve ourselves.

I'm reading _The Speed of Dark_ right now, so I'm on a bit on an autism-power trip right now, so...feel free to say I'm totally wrong here. ;)


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07 Dec 2021, 10:59 am

Very unlikely. Although it maybe difficult to distinguish between the two conditions, they are almost polar opposites. Narcissists are great social manipulators who can change their behavior to meet the social context. Studies show that they are more financially successful, get more job promotions and have more sexual partners than their peers (though they also have a high divorce rate). They are also great liars. In contrast, Autistics have difficulty changing their behavior to meet the social context. A recent study showed that adult Autistics had an unemployment rate of 85%, while the unemployment rate was 4.5%. Despite that, autistics are harder workers, more loyal and more innovative than their peers. Studies also indicate that they lie less often than their peers.

Narcissists also find autistic people their perfect scapegoats.



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08 Dec 2021, 7:02 am

zzyzzy wrote:
Very unlikely. Although it maybe difficult to distinguish between the two conditions, they are almost polar opposites. Narcissists are great social manipulators who can change their behavior to meet the social context. Studies show that they are more financially successful, get more job promotions and have more sexual partners than their peers (though they also have a high divorce rate). They are also great liars. In contrast, Autistics have difficulty changing their behavior to meet the social context. A recent study showed that adult Autistics had an unemployment rate of 85%, while the unemployment rate was 4.5%. Despite that, autistics are harder workers, more loyal and more innovative than their peers. Studies also indicate that they lie less often than their peers.

Narcissists also find autistic people their perfect scapegoats.


Couldn't have put it better myself. I've met many aspies, but only two or three narcissists. Never again. If I see any sign of manipulation or attempted domination nowadays that person is dead to me.



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08 Dec 2021, 8:06 am

Yeah, its just like any other co-morbid disorder with autism, you can be autistic & NPD, NPD is a way the brain developed due to trauma (just like any other personality disorder), and autistic people can respond to trauma differently, NPD doesnt automatically make you a bad person, it just means that your brain developed differently due to trauma.


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08 Dec 2021, 8:16 am

There was one person in one forum who was diagnosed with both.


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08 Dec 2021, 8:19 am

Amity wrote:
Something else I have wondered about is; can the parent of a non NT child develop more symptoms of narcissism as result of the child's inability to gel and thrive in society? Or does the predisposition exist and the experience of the 'imperfect child' intensifies the symptoms?

This can happen to any parent of a teenager. They can become abusive, controlling and restrain the development of the teen. Such are the cases where the kid doesn't call when he grows up. You get what you give. Anger, lack of warmth, ignorance.


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08 Dec 2021, 8:27 am

Autistic folks are people, too.

Of course you can be both autistic and a narcissist.

It's probable, though, that the "rate" of narcissism is lower within the autistic population.