Why people don't believe in climate science

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The_Walrus
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21 Apr 2015, 5:13 am

eric76 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Obviously, I was not talking about the present day, but rather 11,500 years ago. However, I think you would be surprised how many species are considered threatened.


There are many species considered threatened, but I think that is overwhelmingly due to man's encroachment on their habitat, not to climate.

Yes, generally the big issues are habitat loss, invasive species, and pollution, but climate change is becoming an increasing problem.
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Take a look at history. Look at one example, Nazi Germany. Nazis and industry were pretty much arm and arm. When government and industry team up and merge into one entity, trouble is inevitable.

This is absolute balderdash. It's possibly the worst thing I've ever seen you post. The evils of Nazi Germany were not caused by Hitler's support for industry. Their support for Coca Cola didn't make them kill Jews.



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21 Apr 2015, 12:33 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
eric76 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Obviously, I was not talking about the present day, but rather 11,500 years ago. However, I think you would be surprised how many species are considered threatened.


There are many species considered threatened, but I think that is overwhelmingly due to man's encroachment on their habitat, not to climate.

Yes, generally the big issues are habitat loss, invasive species, and pollution, but climate change is becoming an increasing problem.
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Take a look at history. Look at one example, Nazi Germany. Nazis and industry were pretty much arm and arm. When government and industry team up and merge into one entity, trouble is inevitable.

This is absolute balderdash. It's possibly the worst thing I've ever seen you post. The evils of Nazi Germany were not caused by Hitler's support for industry. Their support for Coca Cola didn't make them kill Jews.

How can you deny it? Nazis and industry were hand in hand. It's corruption at it's worse and you see the result. They completely overrode the rights of people. You can deny it all you want but take a look at how many factories were owned by individuals who were also Nazis who exploited workers from KZ.

For you to flat out *deny* blatant facts is just astounding. Everyone knows about Shindler's List. Well, most of them didn't have lists. They just wanted to keep exploiting until death and then they wanted to go find others to exploit. One of the worst events in the industrial age. One of the worst examples of worker exploitation in existence, right up there with slavery in The USA.

So no. Don't you dare call me ridiculous and deny what I am typing because I KNOW based on the evidence Nazis and Industry were arm in arm and they BOTH committed atrocities against individuals. You need take the blinkers off regarding industry.



eric76
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21 Apr 2015, 1:37 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
eric76 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Obviously, I was not talking about the present day, but rather 11,500 years ago. However, I think you would be surprised how many species are considered threatened.


There are many species considered threatened, but I think that is overwhelmingly due to man's encroachment on their habitat, not to climate.

Yes, generally the big issues are habitat loss, invasive species, and pollution, but climate change is becoming an increasing problem.
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Take a look at history. Look at one example, Nazi Germany. Nazis and industry were pretty much arm and arm. When government and industry team up and merge into one entity, trouble is inevitable.

This is absolute balderdash. It's possibly the worst thing I've ever seen you post. The evils of Nazi Germany were not caused by Hitler's support for industry. Their support for Coca Cola didn't make them kill Jews.

How can you deny it? Nazis and industry were hand in hand. It's corruption at it's worse and you see the result. They completely overrode the rights of people. You can deny it all you want but take a look at how many factories were owned by individuals who were also Nazis who exploited workers from KZ.

For you to flat out *deny* blatant facts is just astounding. Everyone knows about Shindler's List. Well, most of them didn't have lists. They just wanted to keep exploiting until death and then they wanted to go find others to exploit. One of the worst events in the industrial age. One of the worst examples of worker exploitation in existence, right up there with slavery in The USA.


So if supporting industry such Coca Cola made the Nazis kill Jews, then since the US government supports industries such as Coca Cola, then there must be concentration camps in the US where Jews are being killed.

I, for one, have never heard of these US concentration camps and am not familiar with millions of Jews or any other people being loaded on railroad cars and other means of transportation and being hauled off to concentration camps from which they never return.

Perhaps you can tell us where they are.

After all, they must be out there somewhere if your logic is correct.

I'm extremely puzzled by your reference to Schindler's List. I readily admit that I have never seen the movie, but I understand that it was about saving Jews from Nazi concentration camps and extermination by providing them with employment that helps protect them from the Nazis. Wasn't he a hero to those he saved, not a villain? Where am I wrong?

Quote:
So no. Don't you dare call me ridiculous and deny what I am typing because I KNOW based on the evidence Nazis and Industry were arm in arm and they BOTH committed atrocities against individuals. You need take the blinkers off regarding industry.


How do you KNOW this?



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21 Apr 2015, 5:46 pm

How do you not know?

Both Germany and Japan used slave labor.

Only the Comfort Women were used by the troops, the able bodied, POWs, were sent to factories and mines.

It was called Guest Worker, but a French mechanic could be sent to a German tank factory. Pay was not being shot and being fed sometimes.

All German industry was involved, and all had their wanted list. The unskilled went to farms and forestry.

In Eastern Europe Labor Battalions were used to build roads, dig trenches and mass graves. Skilled workers were shipped back to Germany.

What was seen in the camps was the picked over remains. Nobody wanted them, they were not worth feeding, and could not be released. Typhoid was epidemic in the camps.

Millions of slave laborers were in Germany when the war ended. Millions more were there because they wanted to be. With so many in the army, and booming defense work, Germany had a vast labor shortage, and many flooded in for the paid jobs.

It is nothing German. When Tamerlane marched to Egypt, he sent spies first, to locate the industry and craftsmen, then when he sacked a city and killed most, skilled crafts were spared, and they, their families, tools, workers, were sent back to Asia.

When Russia invaded Germany, whole factories, with workers, were sent back to Russia. They got as many scientist as we did. They relocated the BMW factory that made the motorcycle and side car, The R75. They are still made in Russia, the Ural and Dnieper, and in China, the CJ. Chang Jien?

Food, manpower, raw materials, land, the traditional spoils of war.

In Operation Paperclip, our NAZIs were exempted from war crimes trials. They had all worked slave labor to death. Werner Von Braun had first pick on slaves for the V2. It goes along with his view, "I was aiming for the moon, I hit London." In the end we did deport them, fifty years later, under a deal where they kept their Social Security.

Our industry hired known war criminals and the government protected them for fifty years. By then the Statute of Limitations had run out unless direct murder could be proven.

It was not just scientists and engineers, we brought over a lot of Gestopo. They had intelligence on eastern Europe, the Russians, and we only spoke English. They taught us how to question people. They had connections, like the Bandera in Ukraine, who were killing Jews and Russians after the war.

Those are the people we just supported in overthrowing the elected government.

We also went after Mengla's medical records, other experiments done on prisoners, in Germany, and the Japanese in Manchuria. We do have a Department of Chemical and Biological Warfare based on that information. We claim we do not, but when Anthrax was mailed a while back, it was traced to The Pennington Seed Company Research at LSU Baton Rouge. It was full weapons grade fine powder.

The plan to invade Japan involved Nerve Gas, Biological Weapons, that were in forward position when the atom bomb ended the war. We also killed all Japanese prisoners during the island fighting. If we had lost, those would be war crimes.

We really killed some Vietnamese for having a fishing boat in the Gulf of Tonkin. Millions, and in Iraq, used depleted Uranium shells in cities. We killed a million because Saddam used nerve gas on Kurds, that we had sold him to use on Iran, which has now fallen into the hands of ISIS. We have freed a quarter million Syrians.

The list of things to never be trusted, Government, Industry, Academia, Medicine, Religion, and the Media.



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21 Apr 2015, 7:30 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
How can you deny it? Nazis and industry were hand in hand. It's corruption at it's worse and you see the result. They completely overrode the rights of people. You can deny it all you want but take a look at how many factories were owned by individuals who were also Nazis who exploited workers from KZ.

For you to flat out *deny* blatant facts is just astounding. Everyone knows about Shindler's List. Well, most of them didn't have lists. They just wanted to keep exploiting until death and then they wanted to go find others to exploit. One of the worst events in the industrial age. One of the worst examples of worker exploitation in existence, right up there with slavery in The USA.

So no. Don't you dare call me ridiculous and deny what I am typing because I KNOW based on the evidence Nazis and Industry were arm in arm and they BOTH committed atrocities against individuals. You need take the blinkers off regarding industry.

I am not denying the fascist, corporatist nature of Nazi Germany. I am suggesting that to say "evil is inevitable" using the example of Nazi Germany is ridiculous.

I am not criticising the facts which form the basis of your argument, but rather the conclusions you leapt to.



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22 Apr 2015, 2:21 am

eric76 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
eric76 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Obviously, I was not talking about the present day, but rather 11,500 years ago. However, I think you would be surprised how many species are considered threatened.


There are many species considered threatened, but I think that is overwhelmingly due to man's encroachment on their habitat, not to climate.

Yes, generally the big issues are habitat loss, invasive species, and pollution, but climate change is becoming an increasing problem.
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:

Take a look at history. Look at one example, Nazi Germany. Nazis and industry were pretty much arm and arm. When government and industry team up and merge into one entity, trouble is inevitable.

This is absolute balderdash. It's possibly the worst thing I've ever seen you post. The evils of Nazi Germany were not caused by Hitler's support for industry. Their support for Coca Cola didn't make them kill Jews.

How can you deny it? Nazis and industry were hand in hand. It's corruption at it's worse and you see the result. They completely overrode the rights of people. You can deny it all you want but take a look at how many factories were owned by individuals who were also Nazis who exploited workers from KZ.

For you to flat out *deny* blatant facts is just astounding. Everyone knows about Shindler's List. Well, most of them didn't have lists. They just wanted to keep exploiting until death and then they wanted to go find others to exploit. One of the worst events in the industrial age. One of the worst examples of worker exploitation in existence, right up there with slavery in The USA.


So if supporting industry such Coca Cola made the Nazis kill Jews, then since the US government supports industries such as Coca Cola, then there must be concentration camps in the US where Jews are being killed.

I, for one, have never heard of these US concentration camps and am not familiar with millions of Jews or any other people being loaded on railroad cars and other means of transportation and being hauled off to concentration camps from which they never return.

Perhaps you can tell us where they are.

After all, they must be out there somewhere if your logic is correct.

I'm extremely puzzled by your reference to Schindler's List. I readily admit that I have never seen the movie, but I understand that it was about saving Jews from Nazi concentration camps and extermination by providing them with employment that helps protect them from the Nazis. Wasn't he a hero to those he saved, not a villain? Where am I wrong?

Quote:
So no. Don't you dare call me ridiculous and deny what I am typing because I KNOW based on the evidence Nazis and Industry were arm in arm and they BOTH committed atrocities against individuals. You need take the blinkers off regarding industry.


How do you KNOW this?


Where are you getting Coca Cola from???? That's not even German. You need to look at companies such as Bayer and Volkswagon. I have no idea why you put Coca Cola into this equation but we all know how bad for health Coca Cola is, so imagine if they were in cahoots with Uncle Sam? We would most likely be a lot chunkier than we are now.



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22 Apr 2015, 2:26 am

The_Walrus wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
How can you deny it? Nazis and industry were hand in hand. It's corruption at it's worse and you see the result. They completely overrode the rights of people. You can deny it all you want but take a look at how many factories were owned by individuals who were also Nazis who exploited workers from KZ.

For you to flat out *deny* blatant facts is just astounding. Everyone knows about Shindler's List. Well, most of them didn't have lists. They just wanted to keep exploiting until death and then they wanted to go find others to exploit. One of the worst events in the industrial age. One of the worst examples of worker exploitation in existence, right up there with slavery in The USA.

So no. Don't you dare call me ridiculous and deny what I am typing because I KNOW based on the evidence Nazis and Industry were arm in arm and they BOTH committed atrocities against individuals. You need take the blinkers off regarding industry.

I am not denying the fascist, corporatist nature of Nazi Germany. I am suggesting that to say "evil is inevitable" using the example of Nazi Germany is ridiculous.

I am not criticising the facts which form the basis of your argument, but rather the conclusions you leapt to.



You can look at other examples such as Tar Creek, which was pretty much a partnership between the US government and Tri State Mining since the military wanted to use a lot of the material for ammunition to fight World Wars I and II.
Much of the area is no longer habitable so yeah I'd say went overboard. Another example are these private juvenile prisons in the US that are under fire for paying judges to send more inmates their way:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kids_for_cash_scandal



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22 Apr 2015, 11:29 am

0_equals_true wrote:
Raptor wrote:
I can't believe you took the bait.
Well, I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.....
:P


Or you are simply trying to imply you didn't confuse ozone with greenhouse effect, as bait.

I like to be thought of as too much of an unlettered churl to know or care about either.

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See Raptor, I don't care what you get your rocks off to, or whatever gets it up for you. If this is it, I'm happy to oblige, it doesn't bother me. So sure knock yourself out.

Well you're no fun. :(


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