The discord in the American political climate

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Ban-Dodger
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25 Apr 2015, 4:02 pm

Only a limited amount of time for quote-editing ? Well I have something to add with comments to quote from...

Top comment to Wesley Clark's presentation is as follows...

nero nero wrote:
Iraq: done
Somalia: ongoing
Sudan:done
Libya: done
Syria: ongoing
Lebannon: planned.
Iran: planned.
War in Afghanistan did slow down the process a bit. Now Russia is derailing the whole damn thing. No wonder Putin is hated so, in the criminal west.


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25 Apr 2015, 4:55 pm

luan78zao wrote:
equestriatola wrote:
Up until sometime in the 1990s, it used to be that both parties would work for the betterment of the people of the country.


:lmao:


First of all, Equestriola, I wonder how aware you are that your "history-starts-with-me" view is rather typical for kids and teenagers? Or whether it has ever come to your mind that your understanding of history might be hampered by your ASD deficits in cognitive empathy?

As for your question: No, American and Western world politics used to be rather more polarized than nowadays (all the movements for civil rights, the big strikes, the eugenic movement, the Great Depression, McCarthyism, the Kennedys/Hoover/mafia).

I agree with others here that there are some kind of cycles. I think the main problem is that anxious people are more prone to go into politics and more eager to play a dominant role there than less anxious ones; the latter then feel repelled by the irrationality, scheming and lack of understanding of the former, and withdraw or stay out of politics, unless things have turned pretty bad.

What the US faces now is quite big a struggle though, as it requires a constitutional change (for a more functional multiparty system), the acknowledgement that a better social infrastructure is needed (for raising the nation s quality of life, and its availability for the economic change to come), and a more reasonable foreign policy. For someone outside of the system like us Europeans who like to compare political and social systems with one another this is very obvious, but it seems to be less clear for some Americans, and in particular for the anxious ones.



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25 Apr 2015, 9:39 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
But one U.S. senator of the 1850's took a cane, and beat another senator to death in the halls of Congress!

I believe he survived.


So what?

The fact that Sumner survived being beaten by Brooks (though he was put out of action as a legislator for three years) changes my point how?



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25 Apr 2015, 10:47 pm

Ban-Dodger wrote:
This is really a karmic/spiritual-consequence in action. A lot of it comes from "infiltration" into American-society. Not a lot can be done right now other than to try to convince everybody to be willing to just bite the bullet try & promote peace & to stop funding punitive-government (details of biting the bullet & promoting peace & the reasons as to why NOT to pay taxes can be read at http://www.the-testament-of-truth.co.uk/).

The fact that taxes go towards punitive-measures in an extortionist-system means negative spiritual-consequences.

Various mind-control systems are set up throughout the land-mass of America, but those who are in control of this technology have greedy and sinister-motives, who don't care about the collateral-suffering the results to the public.

Currently, sinister private International-Bankers are in control of America's government, and presidents are merely puppets of the real leaders who direct control, even though you will never see their faces or hear their names or even know whether they're even human or not (although some have come to light like the Rothchild's & Bilderbergs). The History of The Federal Reserve reveals that is layered in deceptions, and although very detailed and well-researched two and three-hour documentaries exist, I will just include something shorter of a 30-minute duration to help those not yet in the know to get up-to-speed (but for those who do have more time on their hands see here... http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-I ... 91298645X/)
equestriatola wrote:
First, a stern warning: Please REFRAIN from posting anything negative or sensitive in this thread. With that said.....
----
It has occurred me that since the turn of the century, there is just too much vitriol in the American political climate. Up until sometime in the 1990s, it used to be that both parties would work for the betterment of the people of the country.

Unfortunately, it seems like that both parties want to undermine each other's efforts, or even fight between parties or within their own. What happened? It's just so sad and sickening that there is so much discord and vitriol in the political climate.

“They say the definition of insanity is repeating the same action, and expecting a different result." - Sadly, while I have voted in every election since 2008 (when I was first eligible) this is what the elections come to; a war of the words.

What are we to do?


There is one obvious element you don't seem to consider, your posts are not censored and neither are the books and videos you are posting link off. If you lived in China your comments would likelly be censored for "subversive" opinions and you could end in a prison that would sell your organs. But it's not the case, beside the so called vast powers of the "illuminati" or "alien reptillian overlord" or whatever, peoples in the US and many western democracies are free to post in various forums about crazy theories about government conspiracies or even sell books or video about those theories in mainstream websites like Amazon and Youtube. It's almost sound like they have more freedom of speech that in any prior period in history ruled by monarchies, who would have thought!? :roll:
Maybe we should thank the illuminati for allowing us to expose to the world their world-scale millenials old all-reaching conspiracy on easy to access websites and medias.



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25 Apr 2015, 10:58 pm

History likes to repeat itself or rather people seem to have a habit of repeating history...

Tollorin wrote:
-snip-

...have some "uncesored" content regarding "skepticism" here...


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26 Apr 2015, 5:49 pm

The irony of that video is that it uses several ad hominems itself - "fake skeptic", "herd", "sheep", "religion", and so forth.

The collapse of WTC7 has been explained to death by the "establishment" and also by independent experts, but conspiracy theorists have no explanation as to how or why it would fall down in their version of events. As the video mentions, nobody was harmed and nobody talks about it, so what motivation would anyone have for destroying it?

The BBC reporting from the other side of the city that a burning building had fallen down is just as easily explained by incompetence within the established timeline as it is in any alternative timeline.



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26 Apr 2015, 5:56 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
I believe he survived.


So what?

The fact that Sumner survived being beaten by Brooks (though he was put out of action as a legislator for three years) changes my point how?[/quote]

Err I was just pointing out a historical fact, that is all.



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26 Apr 2015, 6:28 pm

Ironies are a hell of a lot of fun to witness though... have more of them...

The_Walrus wrote:
The irony of that video is that it uses several ad hominems itself - "fake skeptic", "herd", "sheep", "religion", and so forth.



The_Walrus wrote:
The collapse of WTC7 has been explained to death by the "establishment" and also by independent experts, but conspiracy theorists have no explanation as to how or why it would fall down in their version of events.

You have made a claim. I am now going to look for evidence that either supports or refutes (or both) your claims. Something of interest that has come up would be this...

Apparently, for what-ever questions that "establishment" has given to the people, the people are apparently not satisfied with the answers that have been provided, and in fact, I might have to conclude that the people/public/callers feel like their questions simply haven't actually been answered by said establishment.
The_Walrus wrote:
As the video mentions, nobody was harmed and nobody talks about it, so what motivation would anyone have for destroying it?

The BBC reporting from the other side of the city that a burning building had fallen down is just as easily explained by incompetence within the established timeline as it is in any alternative timeline.

I am just going to commend you for being meticulous enough to bother reviewing the video for yourself, and as for motivations for even destroying anything at all, I have found that "following the money" frequently gets logical answers/results. I don't really believe that we even have a government any more, and that it in fact, has not existed for many years now, largely due legal-evidence as to the U.S. being a corporation (not to be confused with the U.S.A.).

Following the Money Trails always seems to lead me back to The Federal Reserve. I don't know if you're an avid book-reader or not or if you bother to take the time to read the reviews to books that are cited as well-documented references (you did look at the video at least), but if you are, I would certainly be interested in your responses to publications such as http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-I ... 91298645X/ or how you would respond to the reviews that people have left or comments that have been made to said reviews.


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26 Apr 2015, 6:45 pm

Oh yes, that whole "USA/US/whatever is a corporation thing." It's an old conspiracy theory, but one without actual basis:

http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ulti ... 000161;p=0


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26 Apr 2015, 6:46 pm

There is nothing more harebrained and patronising than people who call others "sheeple", and tell then to "wake up", when they focus on the same over-simplistic world view conspiracies.

It is all to easy to blame every bad thing on a single evil entity. It is a total cop-out. A way of absolving yourself of responsibility in human nature, and making out you are one of the good guys.

It is schizotypal mindset manifested, full of assumption chaining, not even remotely empirical or grounded in reality.

As Walrus points out there is no real point to these alleged actions. They would involved so many people, to plan and carry out, yet these people would have to act with no apparent self-interest themselves, to prop up an evil organization, with no reason for doing so. The chance of this not breaking down, and someone coming forward or messing things up is slim.

There is absolutely no point for such a powerful organization to play these games. It doesn't need to, it could be overt and just take over. It is completely pointless leaving obscure clues to the true believers. What for?

Also the obsession with the Rothschild family is just recycled BS. Yes they are wealthy, but they are hardly the most wealthy influential people these days. How about Carlos Slim, Warren Buffet, the Mexican drug cartels, Russian Oligarchs, the Asian Tycoons?

The irony is that the origin of this Rothschild conspiracy could have been due old fashioned philanthropy, which may have caused jealously. It is also just general antisemitism.

Of the top ten largest businesses not one is Jewish owned or run. Of the top ten largest Banks not one is Jewish in origin or run. Of the top ten wealthiest people only one is Jewish (sort of), Larry Ellison.

His mother was Jewish, although she was unwed at the time and his father Italian American. He was given up for adoption. His adopted parent were Jewish, but he remains skeptical, "While I think I am religious in one sense, the particular dogmas of Judaism are not dogmas I subscribe to. I don't believe that they are real. They're interesting stories. They're interesting mythology, and I certainly respect people who believe these are literally true, but I don't. I see no evidence for this stuff."

Liliane Bettencourt's family had connections to the Nazi sympathizing activity. It take all sorts.

Conspiracy theorist are just focus on that they want to believe, their topical knowledge of the world and understanding of geopolitics, isn't better than Joe Blogs.



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26 Apr 2015, 6:50 pm

Also, I do notice that by calling people "sheeples" and crap, it seems to be a way for conspiracy theorists to themselves feel "superior" to "normal people," as they have all this "forbidden knowledge" that just goes over the stupid, doomed, and damned "sheeples'" heads.


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26 Apr 2015, 6:57 pm

And regarding "Jewish conspiracies" and crap about things like the "Elders of Zion" is that they were caught way by surprise when the Nazis implemented the Holocaust, which was surprisingly well-organized. Nearly all Jews in some central and eastern European countries were wiped out. They were almost completely defenseless, which is surprising for such a supposedly "powerful" group.

My understanding is that they were taken by surprise because they thought that the Nazi brand of antisemitism was just one of many waves of antisemitism. In those waves, it was often just best for Jews to keep their heads down and ride it out. Because of that, many did not realize until too late that this time was different.


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26 Apr 2015, 7:05 pm

Do you even know how the Legal-System works ? U.S. is a corporation. U.S.A. is the actual country/government.

beneficii wrote:
Oh yes, that whole "USA/US/whatever is a corporation thing." It's an old conspiracy theory, but one without actual basis:

http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ulti ... 000161;p=0

Do you even speak Legalese ? The U.S. being a Corporation is NOT a Theory but FACTUAL, and furthermore, there are TWO constitutions in operation, ONE of them being the Legitimate American-Government, and the OTHER being the CORPORATE-Government, and whilst I'm not going to "transcribe" verbatim the contents of this reference, I will quote one of the commenters who responded to the video...

jan tetstone wrote:
I took the time to write every thing on this video down.......Everything on it is true..... There are two US Constitutions! I hope people wake up before its to late.


0_equals_true wrote:
They would involved so many people, to plan and carry out, yet these people would have to act with no apparent self-interest themselves, to prop up an evil organization, with no reason for doing so. The chance of this not breaking down, and someone coming forward or messing things up is slim.

This is why "compartmentalisation" exists. The right hand basically doesn't even know what the left hand is doing. People are just following orders (because that's what's expected out of government-workers).

0_equals_true wrote:
Conspiracy theorist are just focus on that they want to believe, their topical knowledge of the world and understanding of geopolitics, isn't better than Joe Blogs.


Here, read this guy's story of why he went from "main-stream" into joining the "conspiracy" crowd, and when I make comparisons, I will even quote a part of his page... http://www.ebtx.com/wtc/911solve.htm
EBTX wrote:
911 Documentaries

Hitherto, I had thought that all such conspiracy theories where the work of fruitcakes and paid them no mind. But I decided to watch a few to get the point of their madness. Instead of madness I have found complete rationality in most of the docs I've seen. There is the occasional screaming, in your face, thing ... but for the most part, the evidence is gathered and presented impartially for all to see and individuals are encouraged to judge for themselves the value of that evidence. These people also encourage the viewer to check out the facts for themselves in their original form. They use the evidence presented by others in official capacities, eyewitness testimony, real time TV footage, newspaper reports, etc. They don't make things up. The only original thing they offer is their own interpretation of those facts.

The hallmark of a rational presentation is calmness of demeanor, display of indisputable facts (what was seen by cameras), presentation of the opposition viewpoint, and invitation to the viewer to make his own interpretation. This is what you will generally find in these half hour to two hour documentaries. And ... there are no commercials ... and ... they are free to watch if you have a reasonably high bandwidth connection.

Having viewed a dozen or so of these conspiracy documentaries related to the 911 disaster, Murrah building event and a few other terrorist stories, I have come to the conclusion that ...

* The facts presented are compelling and warrant full investigation
* Those presenting the arguments are responsible, concerned citizens
* The government has evaded an impartial investigation of the facts
* The mainstream media is also guilty of willful evasion
* The fact finders are falsely portrayed as irresponsible people


beneficii wrote:
And regarding "Jewish conspiracies" and crap about things like the "Elders of Zion" is that they were caught way by surprise when the Nazis implemented the Holocaust, which was surprisingly well-organized. Nearly all Jews in some central and eastern European countries were wiped out. They were almost completely defenseless, which is surprising for such a supposedly "powerful" group.

My understanding is that they were taken by surprise because they thought that the Nazi brand of antisemitism was just one of many waves of antisemitism. In those waves, it was often just best for Jews to keep their heads down and ride it out. Because of that, many did not realize until too late that this time was different.

The "idea/conspiracy" that so many Jews were murdered during the so-called holocaust is easily refuted by the fact that the numbers often cited by fanatical-Jews, who are frequently just trying to force prophecies to be fulfilled, happens to exceed the total numbers of the world's populations or at least the total amount of population within those regions. How-ever, I have not personally lived during those times in those locations, therefore I cannot claim for first-hand experience as to the validity of the death-counts regarding such things like pogroms, inquisitions, witch-hunts (actually this number is allegèdly something like 50K), crusades, and holocausts (over two-million seems like a stretch since even Stalin's reign was supposèdly only 1.5 million although I'm probably going to have to double-check all of these numbers since I haven't really gone over this part of history for a while now).


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26 Apr 2015, 7:18 pm

Actually, a former SS officer himself confirmed these details. He was in disbelief that what he thought were these "super-powerful" Jews were just so easy to destroy.

Anyway, Holocaust denier and Antisemite? I'll keep that in mind.


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26 Apr 2015, 7:20 pm

Also, regarding going from the mainstream to conspiracy theorist, I actually went in the opposite direction as I got older.


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