Something that shouldn't work may work...

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Tollorin
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30 Apr 2015, 3:43 pm

At least that's the results suggested by a NASA Eagle Laboratory experiment. http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/04/evaluating-nasas-futuristic-em-drive/
Something that should literally be impossible!! !
Of course with such claims further experiments is needed.



ASS-P
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30 Apr 2015, 3:49 pm

...That sounds like the old adage about " A bumblebee , suposedly , cant aerodynamically fly , but........." .



naturalplastic
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01 May 2015, 8:15 pm

A microwave rocket?

It would be as if you stood a flashlight on the ground, business end down, flicked on the switch, and then watched the flashlight fly off into outer space (pushed off the ground by the light beam it puts out)!

Thats what micro wave propulsion is, in essence. Like radio, and visible light, and X rays, and gamma rays, its electromagnetic radiation.

Sounds crazy. You gotta have mass ejecting out the back to push the vehicle forward. Which means you have to have matter moving fast: expanding, or exploding gas from ignited fuel. Light can't push anything. Or can it?

Do light photons have mass?

If gravitational lensing happens then photons are effected by gravity therefore photons must have SOME mass.

So if you had a focused beam of photons moving in one direction- and since they all go high velocity (the fastest speed there is-that of light) maybe you would get thrust?



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05 May 2015, 10:14 pm

This is weak thrust. It can be run for extended time.

Our knowledge is speculation. This includes that particles are always coming into and out of being.

The non destruction of matter rule means they have to come from somewhere and go to somewhere.

Giving them a whack with the old Microwave as they pop up is whack a mole thrust.

If it works, fuel is everywhere, it will be possible to start in low earth orbit, gain speed and a higher and higher orbit, then cut loose for Mars. With unlimited fuel, faster passage, lighter craft, some thrust based gravity, and better shielding.

The Moon and Mars are not people friendly, there is nothing to bring back, and robots can do much more than humans.

Live from Alpha Centari in 140 years would be good. 130 to get there, 10 for the signal to reach Earth, but then a live feed, 10 year delay, exploring and launching probes.

Like the rest of the space program I expect the thrill of finding dead rock, and that Comets have water.

The chances of humans in any form surviving hundreds of years in space, as frozen, embryos, breeding stock, or extended life, are all remote. Even the ship, at 10% of light speed, there are dust, rocks, gas, impacts at that speed would convert to energy, as they moved through you. Explosive energy.

It would be good for the next Space Station, something larger, large enough to park ships inside. Orbits decay, it takes a lot of energy to keep mass in stable orbit. Any real space ship would be built in space, would take a small town of people, and more materials and supplies than we have launched so far.

A planet plan, lets work together to put up something in case someone else shows up. Only Star trek can just shuttle down to the planet and score hot green babes with out spreading disease. Also they seem to breath the air everywhere. We should plan to keep visitors at a distance, with their choice of air mix.

Better to build a Quarantine Station, than to need one and not have it.

We might not have guests, but if we have the Space Motel, at least we will not look like hicks.



ruveyn
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06 May 2015, 9:00 am

naturalplastic wrote:

Do light photons have mass?

If gravitational lensing happens then photons are effected by gravity therefore photons must have SOME mass.

So if you had a focused beam of photons moving in one direction- and since they all go high velocity (the fastest speed there is-that of light) maybe you would get thrust?


The gravitational mass of photon is h x frequency/c^2, where h is Planck's constant.

And yes, light can be used for propulsion. Consider a vessel with a very large lo mass sail pushed by sunlight.

ruveyn



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06 May 2015, 9:23 pm

Everything is possible now. Maybe someone is hacking physics.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/there- ... e=vicefbus



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07 May 2015, 2:45 pm

I heard somebody on "coast to coast" say that it is probably that mankind needs another 1000 or so years of uninterrupted progress to become a truly space-faring civilization. IOW we'd have to progress to a type I [technological] civilization at least, in that time. I'm not holding my breath until that happens.



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28 Jul 2015, 4:12 pm

ASS-P wrote:
...That sounds like the old adage about " A bumblebee , suposedly , cant aerodynamically fly , but........." .


As an insect enthusiast, I must resurrect this thread to adress this, or else it'll bug me... :)

The misconception that a bumblebee should be unable to get off the ground is something like a century old, and has unclear origins. The gist however, is that some scientist at this time, possibly a french entomologist, got very drunk one night before deciding to do some science. On whatever scrap of paper was available to him, he scribbled his formulas and no doubt gasped a "Sacrebleu!" when after crunching the numbers he had proven beyond a doubt that a bumblebees wings have nowhere near the necessary surface area to lift a body of the insects own mass. The seed of this myth was sown somewhere between that night and the next morning or so, when a probably equally hung-over colleague pointed out that, in his drunken stupor, he had used the formula for fixed-wing aerodynamics.

Bumblebees fly in a manner similar to helicopters: the rapid movements of their (very un-fixed) wings create a low-pressure vortex above them, which provides the necessary lift for them to fly.

I'll go lecture elsewhere now, carry on... :oops:


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auntblabby
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28 Jul 2015, 4:29 pm

^^^
:study:



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29 Jul 2015, 12:40 am

auntblabby wrote:
I heard somebody on "coast to coast" say that it is probably that mankind needs another 1000 or so years of uninterrupted progress to become a truly space-faring civilization. IOW we'd have to progress to a type I [technological] civilization at least, in that time. I'm not holding my breath until that happens.



Mankind is hopeless. The latest on EM Drive was a story on getting to the Moon in four hours. No people could survive that, maybe a solid block of Titanium. EM Drive has passed another test, it fits within the laws of Physics.

A further description of the technology, a chamber where microwaves are excited, with a hole where they can escape in one direction. Fifty years ago we called this a Microwave Laser, a Maser. Back then it was known to provide weak thrust, not enough to kill a commie, but fully enclosed, it would reheat leftover food.

The Department of Defense DARPA, funded a means of destroying roadside bombs, a Maser mounted on a Humvee. It did project a beam, but the confinement field turned the Humvee into a microwave toaster.

The same problem with space drive, lack of radiation shielding. Any space drive will have to have radiation and particle shielding. Star Trek defied Physics with shields that would stop an Atomic Bomb, that was a solid wall close to the ship, and did not turn everything inside the field to a fork in the microwave.

Just shielding from Cosmic Radiation, would take a miles wide magnetic field, which if anything would attract any random space rock. The Earth's magnetic field has created the Van Allen Radiation Belts. A shield is a collector.

All EM Fields are subject to induction, being projected through something like the Earth's fields, it will gain energy. EM Drive could turn into a heating element. In Space, there is no Ground, to dispose of unwanted over current.

The ship should be named Lightning Rod.



ZenDen
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29 Jul 2015, 11:52 am

naturalplastic wrote:
A microwave rocket?

It would be as if you stood a flashlight on the ground, business end down, flicked on the switch, and then watched the flashlight fly off into outer space (pushed off the ground by the light beam it puts out)!

Thats what micro wave propulsion is, in essence. Like radio, and visible light, and X rays, and gamma rays, its electromagnetic radiation.

Sounds crazy. You gotta have mass ejecting out the back to push the vehicle forward. Which means you have to have matter moving fast: expanding, or exploding gas from ignited fuel. Light can't push anything. Or can it?

Do light photons have mass?

If gravitational lensing happens then photons are effected by gravity therefore photons must have SOME mass.

So if you had a focused beam of photons moving in one direction- and since they all go high velocity (the fastest speed there is-that of light) maybe you would get thrust?


"Do light photons have mass?

If gravitational lensing happens then photons are effected by gravity therefore photons must have SOME mass."

I'm pretty sure we've now been shown it's the "space" being traveled through by the photons, that gets bent by large gravity fields, that makes it appear the photon's path is bent.