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Einfari
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23 May 2015, 1:57 am

GiantHockeyFan wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
In that case it's a good thing I didn't break it off with gf. I came this close though. She's far from ideal but she's the only girl in recent times who expressed any interest in me. Hell, the last two girls before her stood me up. And this month two different girls say they'll go out with me and I'll probably never meet either one of them. If girls on dating sites typically act like this, standing me up, letting me down gently, etc, I have little chance of getting anyone else. It took me three and a half years to get into one relationship. If it takes that long again, I'll be in my 30s.


Man, you can be incredibly frustrating to deal with. I would have given up ages ago if not for the fact I've been in your shoes (and am an obsessive Retro Gamer myself). Yes, even eHarmony (far and away the best site) was full of flaky, ambivalent women. Get used to it because it's not going away. In my experience, only about 20% of the women I talked to on OKCupid even met me and NEVER went on a second date no matter how perfectly the date went. Again, on the surface I am quite attractive: work for one of my province's largest employers, tall, slim, athletic, etc and even I had no luck. Literally God himself would not be able to get a second date and you need to stop taking it so personally.

So what if you are in your 30s? My GF is almost 40 but her lack of experience never even crossed my mind. If I could go back in time, I would have loved to lose my virginity to her even at the ripe age of 32. I hate to be blunt but it may take 3 years or more but it's because of YOUR attitude: you sound like a whiny teenager at times not a 27 year old man. Do you really think you will be happy with someone who is 'good enough' since she is clinging to you (classic Borderline behavior) but causes you to go online and complain constantly? Give your head a shake. Again.

I've gone out with many women and one thing is obvious: they all want men to be men. In other words, those who are bold, lead, protect and be masculine. Even my feminist girlfriend who loves her independence and equality loves when I am assertive and dominating with her. Just from your writing, it sure seems like you are too scared of what others think. Stop that!


I was just going to post when I saw that you took the words out of my mouth. There is no point in dating someone that you are not attracted to just to have a girlfriend. It may be best to break up with your so called girlfriend and be single for while and grow up a bit. If you had not mentioned your age here, I would guess you were about 14-15 based on how you are handling this. A lot of teens (male and female), date just to date because they don't know how to be on their own. Be single for a while, find yourself, mature, and then meet people to casually date once you prove to yourself and them that you are mature enough to handle an adult relationship.



rdos
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23 May 2015, 2:07 am

Einfari wrote:
There is no point in dating someone that you are not attracted to just to have a girlfriend.


I'll agree to the latter but not the former. Too me, there is no point in limiting your pool of potential partners by requiring them to be physically attractive. Especially not when attractiveness is just a kind of "copy behavior" that works the same for everybody. IOW, it is not just girls that agree on what is attractive, this is also the case for guys. By giving in to the argument that you must have an attractive gf, you essentially accept the very behavior of NTs that they use to make you unattractive.



Aspie1
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23 May 2015, 2:50 am

Einfari wrote:
Be single for a while, find yourself, mature, and then meet people to casually date once you prove to yourself and them that you are mature enough to handle an adult relationship.

I think he's way ahead of you on that one. He's been single his whole life, and this particular girl was the first one who showed interest in him. Everybody has to start somewhere, and it's extremely unrealistic for an aspie man with poor social skills to expect his first girlfriend to be a supermodel. RetroGamer87 is being realistic and true to his abilities by staying with her.

My first girlfriend was unattractive too. Go ahead and rag me about it. I stayed with her. I did everything a good boyfriend is supposed to do. And I learned a lot from that relationship. Exponentially more than I ever would from "being single for a while".



RetroGamer87
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23 May 2015, 7:38 am

Einfari wrote:
A lot of teens (male and female), date just to date because they don't know how to be on their own.
I already know how to be on my own. I could be single for another decade but what would that teach me about relationships? I believe maturity is not your age but the sum of your life experiences.
Einfari wrote:
Be single for a while, find yourself, mature, and then meet people to casually date once you prove to yourself and them that you are mature enough to handle an adult relationship.
How would I prove to myself and them that I'm mature enough to handle an adult relationship while sitting alone? I find the criteria for your test to be a bit vague.


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Aspie1
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23 May 2015, 10:15 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I already know how to be on my own. I could be single for another decade but what would that teach me about relationships? I believe maturity is not your age but the sum of your life experiences.

How would I prove to myself and them that I'm mature enough to handle an adult relationship while sitting alone? I find the criteria for your test to be a bit vague.

I couldn't agree more. Relationships are not a spectator sport. You learn about them by doing. What Einfari is suggesting is no different than learning to play basketball or program in Visual C++ by not doing them at all. That will only work if you have an inborn talent, and even then, you still have to participate to get good at it. And just like you will not slam dunk like Michael Jordan or write the next Microsoft Office the first time you try those activities, you will not have the "perfect" girlfriend in your first relationship, either. You start where you can, then practice, practice, practice.

Einfari, if you were lucky enough to have a girlfriend in high school or even college, let others enjoy the benefit too!



RetroGamer87
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23 May 2015, 5:11 pm

Aspie1 wrote:
Einfari, if you were lucky enough to have a girlfriend in high school or even college, let others enjoy the benefit too!
I think Einfari might actually be a girl. Perhaps the reason she suggests I take a more passive role is because for her, she can wait around and some guy will start a relationship. I'm sure Einfari would only have to go onto to Tinder and within a short time several guys would be asking her out. Such a passive approach won't work for me.


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Who_Am_I
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24 May 2015, 2:49 am

So what I'm getting is that you're only dating this girl so you can say you have a girlfriend?
End it. She deserves better than to be a prop for your ego.


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RetroGamer87
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24 May 2015, 5:23 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
So what I'm getting is that you're only dating this girl so you can say you have a girlfriend?
How did you know?


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JakJak
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24 May 2015, 5:33 am

If you are not in a committed relationship, then no, it isn't exactly unethical. But she does deserve to know that you are dating others, so that she can make decisions for herself, based on the truth, and not based on what you're leading her to believe.

I understand that you think that she isn't physically attractive. Physical attraction is nice, but it isn't the only type of attraction. If you can't find anything else in this girl that makes you attracted to her, then I don't see why you should waste her time, or yours. She isn't an experiment. She's a person. She might also have her own difficulties in relationships, which would make it even more unfair for you to use her.

Relationships haven't come easy for me, either. I have also learned the hard way, that when you try to force it, with someone you aren't compatible with, neither of you will be happy. It will just be a lot of stress that will make it that much harder to enter a relationship with someone who is better suited to you, in the future.

Something to consider..

You keep saying that you don't know how women think or what they want.. Stop trying to figure that out. You never will. They are all unique and individual, with their own wants and desires. Yes, a lot will expect you to treat them a certain way and "be a man". But you aren't that type of "man". You are simply you. Any woman with those standards just isn't going to be for you. I know this, because they aren't going to be for me, either. Believe it or not, there really are some women out there, who don't care about standard dating and social cues.. They really don't have those expectations. And sometimes, all it takes, is telling her upfront, that you don't understand these things, and that anything she wants, she's going to have to tell you, or you'll never figure it out. Again, most won't understand this or care to understand. And that's fine, because you only need one who will.

I personally am socially awkward, immature, lacking in experience, and completely stupid when it comes to understanding relationships and dating.. I got started later, too.. And I do get where you're coming from. But I can tell you that I went through two relationships, in 5 years time, that I would actually consider to be a terrible ordeal, rather than something that felt good and taught me things. In fact, these relationships just made me think less of myself, and want to give up even more.

I can tell you, that it actually does get easier, when you give up trying to figure out how to please others, and just try to please yourself. Look for what you want in a relationship, first... I never thought that anybody could love me for who I am.. I always thought that I had to bend over backwards trying to please the other person, at the expense of my own happiness.. And I think that lack of experience at younger ages, and wanting desperately to just experience any type of a relationship, tends to put us in this position. I'm telling you this now, because I wish that I'd considered years ago, before the other two relationships, that I can be wanted and loved, too... That I don't have to try so hard to please someone else.

Forcing relationships, or practicing on someone, is just generally a bad idea, no matter the circumstance. People always end up getting hurt. Everyone keeps telling you that she could get hurt by your actions, but you are at risk for getting hurt, too.

Your experience with one person, will also teach you nothing about the next. People are not that simple.

Back in September, I finally did end up in a relationship with someone who was willing to understand me, and work with me. She's not what people would consider to be physically attractive, but she's beautiful to me. She's also immature and socially awkward.. And enjoys doing a lot of the same things that I like to do. Relationships really don't have to be that complicated.. for any of us.

The last thing that I want to say.. And you might laugh at the suggestion.. But if you're not happy with online dating sites, and you're wanting something where it's easier for guys than it is for girls, try virtual chat. In these programs, the male to female ratio is severely unbalanced, in the male's favor. If you're looking to rush, in taking things to meeting in person, this probably won't be for you. But if you're wanting more experience in relating to women, this will provide that. And if you make a real connection to someone, it very much can lead to meeting in person. I've done this before, and I know a few others who have had successful relationships that way.

I know this was long, but I hope it helps, at least a little. I actually created an account, just to respond to this, because I've been in your position, and I get it. Do what you think will make you happy. But try to be careful with everyone, including yourself.



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24 May 2015, 5:51 am

I once dated a guy who was hurting over being dumped by a previous girlfriend. He could be fun sometimes but looking back I think that he was mainly interested in me as a way of making up for the rejection of his ex. He wasn't that attracted to me and after about a year he finally realized it and broke up with me.

It can really hurt a person's self-esteem to be in that position. Please don't do this.



RetroGamer87
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24 May 2015, 7:05 am

JakJak wrote:
I understand that you think that she isn't physically attractive. Physical attraction is nice, but it isn't the only type of attraction.
That is very true. I am attracted to her in other ways. I enjoy spending time with her for reasons other than telling people I've got a girlfriend. She's fun, she's cuddly, she's caring, she enjoys playing video games, is a good conversationalist, etc.
JakJak wrote:
She might also have her own difficulties in relationships, which would make it even more unfair for you to use her.
Yes she has and if I stay with her long term I want to help her come to terms with that. I do care about her and I want to help alleviate her depression.
JakJak wrote:
I have also learned the hard way, that when you try to force it, with someone you aren't compatible with, neither of you will be happy. It will just be a lot of stress that will make it that much harder to enter a relationship with someone who is better suited to you, in the future.
O_o
JakJak wrote:
in 5 years time, that I would actually consider to be a terrible ordeal, rather than something that felt good and taught me things. In fact, these relationships just made me think less of myself, and want to give up even more.
Some days it feels like that.

Some days when the girls from OkC disappear into the ether it feels like there'll never be anyone else. I just have to figure out the probability of finding someone better suited.

(One in Graham's Number? /sarcasm)


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RetroGamer87
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24 May 2015, 7:31 am

JakJak wrote:
Everyone keeps telling you that she could get hurt by your actions, but you are at risk for getting hurt, too.
O_o
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Your experience with one person, will also teach you nothing about the next. People are not that simple.
Drat. That was one of my plans.

You make a good point though. Different women are different. Though I still think it will at least help my confidence with subsequent women.
JakJak wrote:
Back in September, I finally did end up in a relationship with someone who was willing to understand me, and work with me. She's not what people would consider to be physically attractive, but she's beautiful to me. She's also immature and socially awkward.. And enjoys doing a lot of the same things that I like to do. Relationships really don't have to be that complicated.. for any of us.
I'm glad you've found such a nice girl, it makes me think there may be hope even for me.
JakJak wrote:
The last thing that I want to say.. And you might laugh at the suggestion.. But if you're not happy with online dating sites, and you're wanting something where it's easier for guys than it is for girls, try virtual chat. In these programs, the male to female ratio is severely unbalanced, in the male's favor. If you're looking to rush, in taking things to meeting in person, this probably won't be for you. But if you're wanting more experience in relating to women, this will provide that. And if you make a real connection to someone, it very much can lead to meeting in person. I've done this before, and I know a few others who have had successful relationships that way.
That sounds like an excellent suggestion! Where are these virtual chat programs? What are they called? Are you talking those programs where you walk around in a sort of metaverse but it's not an actual game?
JakJak wrote:
I know this was long, but I hope it helps, at least a little. I actually created an account, just to respond to this, because I've been in your position, and I get it. Do what you think will make you happy. But try to be careful with everyone, including yourself.
I don't mind long responses. I've been known to write quite a few myself. I'm a details oriented guy. Thank you for writing such a detailed and helpful response.


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AngelRho
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24 May 2015, 1:18 pm

Virtual chat? Back in the day I met a couple of women through IRC and had a lovely time. I did learn one quasi-unfortunate lesson, though. Back then, a lot of the kinds of women cruising IRC channels and other chat rooms who were up for meeting me were hiding behind the internet for a reason. After getting to know these girls a little bit IRL it didn't take long to realize there would not be a second date.

If I were going to get back into that, I'd go with something like Second Life or Inworlds, which is just relay chat with 3D graphics.



JakJak
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24 May 2015, 3:18 pm

It will only help with your confidence, if the relationship is good. For me, I slipped further behind, got more down on myself.. I felt like I couldn't do anything right, and shouldn't even bother. I was questioning my own words and actions more than I had before my first relationship. One thing that people like us have to look out for, that I never considered, is that there are others who actually want relationships with us, because they feel that they can boss us around and treat us bad, and we won't leave, because they see us as that desperate. Which was actually the standard for my first relationship. And sadly, she was right. I wasn't going anywhere. I was in my late 20's and believed this was my one chance. I also thought that if I just tried harder, I could make her happy, and she'd love me, too. I know now that I didn't love her. But I didn't know that, at the time. Yes, I am aware how pathetic I sound. But, I did it to myself, so I don't really have anyone to blame but me.

Virtual chat would be things like Second Life or IMVU. There's others out there, but those are the two big ones that I know of. Just dress your avatar up nice, or get someone to help you dress it up, if you don't feel confident to do it yourself. The idea is to be attracted to the ladies. The male to female ratio is so unbalanced, you should have women wanting to talk to you almost immediately. I do caution to take your time and get to know them. Do not assume that because someone is in a female avatar, that they are female in real life. Just like anywhere else online, you have people who have fake pics, or claim they are single when they are married.. That sort of thing. So yes.. Just take it slow and keep your options open, until you really know you have a strong connection with someone.



Stargazer43
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24 May 2015, 7:06 pm

Based on your recent posts, I think that you have a lot to learn about how to develop a meaningful relationship.



RetroGamer87
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25 May 2015, 12:59 am

JakJak going on second life or IMVU sounds like an excellent idea for me (when I have the time, I know people say there's always time for dating but I'm doing a double paced TAFE class and a 3/4 full time job. My rest time is literally for resting. I'm not a quick study and the only remedy is to study longer).

If I could ask more questions about it, is it voice chat or text chat? Is there a way to narrow the search down to girls from Adelaide, not the other side of the world?


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