Nice Guys, nice guys, alpha males, nice girls, and feminists

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Gauldoth
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25 May 2015, 10:16 pm

rdos wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
rdos wrote:
I think the nice and alpha terms are just as useful as feminism. I'm for males and females having equal rights and opportunities, but I'm strongly against feminism.


That's feminism by definition, regardless of how some feminists act.


No, feminism is about favoring females at the expense of males. That's very different from giving both genders equal rights and opportunities.


It's not even that anymore though. I mean, women have always been favored over men in society in some ways, and now they're more so than ever. Modern feminism just seems to exist as a rod to beat down low-status men with. I mean, look at Gamergate for instance, and the utter fiasco that was.



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26 May 2015, 2:41 am

rdos wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
There are different branches of feminism. You have those who genuinely hate men, or blame the "patriarchy" for their own shortcomings, but 90% of all feminists I know are perfectly well-adjusted people.


Yes, I know, but still, the argument that the purpose of feminism is to favor females at the expense of males is valid for all of them. This argument can easily be proved by noticing that no male-specific problem is part of the agenda of any feminism branch unless it's solution favors females in some related way. That's why the purpose of feminism cannot be to achieve equal rights and opportunities.


Your argument of proof is flawed.

You argue that if an entity advocates for A, and not B, then that entity is against B.
This would be like saying that PETA is against human rights since they only advocate for non-human animals, or that Amnesty International is against non-human animal rights because they only advocate for humans. Or that these entities are against disabled rights because they do not advocate for the disabled.

I'm sure there is a name for such a fallacy if one cared to take the time to find it.

Also, I do not believe that your implicit view that women's rights advocates have a responsibility to incorporate men's rights into their mission statement is entirely reasonable, not because men's rights aren't important...they are, but because it would be no different than demanding PETA take on autism rights, or Autism Speaks take on animal rights, or the NAACP take on LGBT rights.

Further, as someone who does care about men's rights, I wish to point out that those within the movement who voice such logical fallacies as if they are valid points, only serve to invalidate the movement and detract from valid men's rights issues.

If you wish to discuss those, or continue this conversation, I recommend you start a threat on the subject outside of the love and dating forum.



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26 May 2015, 2:49 am

Gauldoth wrote:
rdos wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
rdos wrote:
I think the nice and alpha terms are just as useful as feminism. I'm for males and females having equal rights and opportunities, but I'm strongly against feminism.


That's feminism by definition, regardless of how some feminists act.


No, feminism is about favoring females at the expense of males. That's very different from giving both genders equal rights and opportunities.


It's not even that anymore though. I mean, women have always been favored over men in society in some ways, and now they're more so than ever. Modern feminism just seems to exist as a rod to beat down low-status men with. I mean, look at Gamergate for instance, and the utter fiasco that was.


And in some ways men are favored more. I'm sure we could both make our lists on the matter but why not just admit that both sexes have their struggles and who are we to say what someone else finds inconsequential or difficult? It often comes down to whether or not the person is up to the task of dealing with the difficulties. A low status woman might struggle just as much with womanhood as a low status man does with manhood.

In fact, there was a study very long ago that found that the brains of women with AS were more similar to that of NT males, and the brains of men with AS were less masculine than those of NT males, meaning (gender identity aside) that those with AS have brains that are not very well sexually differentiated, and probably explains why both men and women with AS have difficulty meeting gender norms, much less gender ideals.



rdos
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26 May 2015, 12:17 pm

Chronos wrote:
Your argument of proof is flawed.

You argue that if an entity advocates for A, and not B, then that entity is against B.
This would be like saying that PETA is against human rights since they only advocate for non-human animals, or that Amnesty International is against non-human animal rights because they only advocate for humans. Or that these entities are against disabled rights because they do not advocate for the disabled.


No, your counter-proof is flawed. :mrgreen:

That's because most issues that will favor women will disfavor men. If women get higher pay, this will disfavor men. If women get jobs that men are more qualified for (because of policy issues), this will disfavor men. If women are allowed to abuse men in the dating context because they can, this will disfavor men. If women almost always get custody of children because this is built-into the system (and feminism really don't want to do anything about this), then this disfavors men.

Thus, to want equal rights and opportunities is not part of feminism, because feminism only wants to deal with issues that favor women. For instance, they don't want half of the custody cases to be ruled in favor of men.



goldfish21
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26 May 2015, 12:22 pm

I suppose it's a nice notion to want to ignoring these labels... but IMO, the reality exists that all of these types of people exist & you may fall into one of these categories yourself, or have to compete with others in a "higher" social-dating label category. Such is life even if you want to ignore these labels.


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rdos
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26 May 2015, 12:23 pm

Chronos wrote:
In fact, there was a study very long ago that found that the brains of women with AS were more similar to that of NT males, and the brains of men with AS were less masculine than those of NT males, meaning (gender identity aside) that those with AS have brains that are not very well sexually differentiated, and probably explains why both men and women with AS have difficulty meeting gender norms, much less gender ideals.


That's totally bogus. Neurodiverse people are just as sex-differentiated as NTs, but the difference lies in different traits.



Gauldoth
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26 May 2015, 1:42 pm

rdos wrote:
Chronos wrote:
In fact, there was a study very long ago that found that the brains of women with AS were more similar to that of NT males, and the brains of men with AS were less masculine than those of NT males, meaning (gender identity aside) that those with AS have brains that are not very well sexually differentiated, and probably explains why both men and women with AS have difficulty meeting gender norms, much less gender ideals.


That's totally bogus. Neurodiverse people are just as sex-differentiated as NTs, but the difference lies in different traits.


It was probably one of those half-assed studies which considers stuff like shyness and introversion to be feminine traits. :roll:



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26 May 2015, 1:56 pm

Gauldoth wrote:
rdos wrote:
Chronos wrote:
In fact, there was a study very long ago that found that the brains of women with AS were more similar to that of NT males, and the brains of men with AS were less masculine than those of NT males, meaning (gender identity aside) that those with AS have brains that are not very well sexually differentiated, and probably explains why both men and women with AS have difficulty meeting gender norms, much less gender ideals.


That's totally bogus. Neurodiverse people are just as sex-differentiated as NTs, but the difference lies in different traits.


It was probably one of those half-assed studies which considers stuff like shyness and introversion to be feminine traits. :roll:


Yeah, and that regards females taking any kind of initiative in a relationship as maleness. :roll:



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26 May 2015, 2:12 pm

rdos wrote:
Gauldoth wrote:
rdos wrote:
Chronos wrote:
In fact, there was a study very long ago that found that the brains of women with AS were more similar to that of NT males, and the brains of men with AS were less masculine than those of NT males, meaning (gender identity aside) that those with AS have brains that are not very well sexually differentiated, and probably explains why both men and women with AS have difficulty meeting gender norms, much less gender ideals.


That's totally bogus. Neurodiverse people are just as sex-differentiated as NTs, but the difference lies in different traits.


It was probably one of those half-assed studies which considers stuff like shyness and introversion to be feminine traits. :roll:


Yeah, and that regards females taking any kind of initiative in a relationship as maleness. :roll:


That's another thing. Being active or passive when it comes to relationships has nothing do with being male or female. By in large, males are active in the dating game because they HAVE TO. And women are passive because they CAN.

If you think the majority of men take an active role in the dating game because they like to, or because it comes naturally to them, you are very much mistaken. I don't like it, and neither do most of the men I know. We do it because we have no other choice. :roll:



rdos
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26 May 2015, 3:48 pm

Gauldoth wrote:
That's another thing. Being active or passive when it comes to relationships has nothing do with being male or female. By in large, males are active in the dating game because they HAVE TO. And women are passive because they CAN.

If you think the majority of men take an active role in the dating game because they like to, or because it comes naturally to them, you are very much mistaken. I don't like it, and neither do most of the men I know. We do it because we have no other choice. :roll:


I'm not sure if I agree to that. I'm passive in dating because I'm blocked and thus CANNOT make contact. NTs have a choice, they may HAVE TO but that is easier than CANNOT.



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26 May 2015, 9:51 pm

rdos wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Chronos wrote:
Your argument of proof is flawed.

You argue that if an entity advocates for A, and not B, then that entity is against B.
This would be like saying that PETA is against human rights since they only advocate for non-human animals, or that Amnesty International is against non-human animal rights because they only advocate for humans. Or that these entities are against disabled rights because they do not advocate for the disabled.



No, your counter-proof is flawed. :mrgreen:

That's because most issues that will favor women will disfavor men. If women get higher pay, this will disfavor men. If women get jobs that men are more qualified for (because of policy issues), this will disfavor men. If women are allowed to abuse men in the dating context because they can, this will disfavor men. If women almost always get custody of children because this is built-into the system (and feminism really don't want to do anything about this), then this disfavors men.

Thus, to want equal rights and opportunities is not part of feminism, because feminism only wants to deal with issues that favor women. For instance, they don't want half of the custody cases to be ruled in favor of men.


Chronos wrote:
In fact, there was a study very long ago that found that the brains of women with AS were more similar to that of NT males, and the brains of men with AS were less masculine than those of NT males, meaning (gender identity aside) that those with AS have brains that are not very well sexually differentiated, and probably explains why both men and women with AS have difficulty meeting gender norms, much less gender ideals.


That's totally bogus. Neurodiverse people are just as sex-differentiated as NTs, but the difference lies in different traits.


rdos: I'm concerned because your responses indicate a weak grasp of the comprehension of logic as applicable to debates and discussions, and while your goal in a debate or discussion might be to silence the other party, rather than to reach a mutual concensus built on a sound logical foundation, such a goal, if that indeed is what your goal is, and the use of logical fallacies, reflects negatively on you as a debator and does not further your point in the mind of those with whom you are debating or conversing.

Additionally, I'm concerned that you are so quick to dismiss my claim concerning the study I cited, and refute it without any evidence to back up your speculations. Such snap judgments on what is truth and what isn't can lead a person to distorted perceptions of the world around them.

Here is the study, if you are interested.

Autism Attenuates Sex Differences in Brain Structure: A Combined Voxel-Based Morphometry and Diffusion Tensor Imaging Study F.D. Beachera,b, L. Minatia,c, S. Baron-Cohend, M.V. Lombardod, M.-C. Laid, M.A. Graya,e, N.A. Harrisona,f,g and H.D. Critchleya,f,g



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26 May 2015, 10:01 pm

rdos wrote:
I think the nice and alpha terms are just as useful as feminism. I'm for males and females having equal rights and opportunities, but I'm strongly against feminism.


males and females having equal rights IS feminism. you are a feminist.



Gauldoth
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27 May 2015, 12:11 am

cathylynn wrote:
rdos wrote:
I think the nice and alpha terms are just as useful as feminism. I'm for males and females having equal rights and opportunities, but I'm strongly against feminism.


males and females having equal rights IS feminism. you are a feminist.


Again, that is true in theory. In practice though, feminism, at least nowadays, exists pretty much only to hound low-status men and little else. The rest is just pointless semantics.



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27 May 2015, 1:32 am

Chronos wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:


I don't understand what posing as a stripper/porn star on a sex oriented chat site has to do with my original post.


Do I sound like a nice guy there? Let me explain you why it is very relevant to your thread.

A porn actor (or stripper or escort) is perceived as an alpha male, a male who is sexually experienced and perceived as hot in society and physically highly desired, check their responses and their reactions.
In many species, this is a way ofhow females determine an alpha, when they see a male surrounded by females, they will go for this one, it is called copycat mating.


And you see that a lot in my thread - "You surely f**k a lot of women :$" - "Wow you must be desired :$" , I get a lot of those while doing this prank. Women in general, respect men who are desired by a lot of women, even if these men are actually sluts.


Such social experiments, where you see genuine female responses rather than playing the ideal pesona....like the way we see it in outdoor life, and on forums :lol: , they are way more reflective of the truth of women behind the door than what all WP ladies claim combined.

It is the desires behind the door that really matter, and not the "I am a good lady seeking for a nice guy" facade mask that at lot of women feel pressured to wear for many reasons.

The Stud/Slut double standard (and as you can see, most women see the slut equivalent of man as stud) has a lot to do with the attraction of women toward the alpha and the copycat thing, in my thread you see the general female response to the Stud/Slut-man.

And you will see even more in my next wave of screenshots.

I am the Boo and I am gonna expose the general true fantasies of women and the true female instincts away from the idealization bullcrap act, women of earth. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:



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27 May 2015, 2:10 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Chronos wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:


I don't understand what posing as a stripper/porn star on a sex oriented chat site has to do with my original post.


Do I sound like a nice guy there? Let me explain you why it is very relevant to your thread.

A porn actor (or stripper or escort) is perceived as an alpha male, a male who is sexually experienced and perceived as hot in society and physically highly desired, check their responses and their reactions.
In many species, this how females determine an alpha, when they see a male surrounded by females, they will go for this one, it is called copycat mating.


And you see that a lot in my thread - "You surely f**k a lot of women :$" - "Wow you must be desired :$" , I get a lot of those while doing this prank. Women in general, respect men who are desired by a lot of women, even if these men are actually sluts.


Such social experiments, where you see genuine female responses rather than playing the ideal pesona....like the way we see it on forums :lol: , they are way more reflective of the truth of women behind the door than what all WP ladies claim combined.

The Stud/Slut double standard (and as you can see, most women see the slut equivalent of man as stud) has a lot to do with the attraction of women toward the alpha and the copycat thing, in my thread you see the general female response to the Stud/Slut-man.

And you will see even more in my next wave of screenshots.

I am gonna expose your true fantasies, females of earth. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


I believe though that your experiment suffers from a phenomena known as "sample bias". You are posing as a stripper on an adult (sexually) oriented chat site, so one would expect the individuals on that website to be more inclined to see a male stripper or porn star as a positive thing.

The problem with focusing on notions such as "alpha male" is two fold. One, these notions, in their envisioned form, often represent an extreme of a spectrum, and this extreme is misrepresented as normal in the mind of the individual envisioning it. In the case of the concept of "alpha male", the want of this "normal", and the inability to meet is, as it is actually an extreme, and is in all likelihood, an unrealistic endeavor, can result in feelings of inadequacy, depression, resentment, hopelessness, bitterness, and hostility, and is not conducive to positive social growth.

An equivalent scenario would be an unsuccessful individual with web development skills thinking he or she should be as successful as Mark Zuckerberg, when Mark Zuckerberg is the exception and most web site successes are not epitomized by Facebook, but by websites with niche followings such as Wrong Planet.

Two, the normal male is not an alpha male by any definition of the word. He is normal. He can't get any girl he wants and he's not entirely socially inept. He will have a few bad relationships, and a few good ones, and will likely eventually get married. Normal is a much more obtainable goal to meet.