This board needs a "Aliens Exist" Thread...!

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Yes it does... also, yes they exists, them aliens, man !

But aliens don't exist (and if they did, there would be no way to contact them, so their existence would make no difference to us anyway).

Now that's just silly given that aliens actually do exist and there is contact with them in those of higher-level security clearances. This thread now needs another "UFOs are disclosed by Governmental-Ministries of Defense" video...

Well, and just for argument's sake, let us assume that what you wrote about them existing is true, then a few - rather inconvenient - questions immediately arise. It was Arthur C. Clarke who made the highly relevant observation that real aliens, when they made contact with us, would transform our societies beyond all recognition within days of their arrival, and that no national government or international organisation, no matter how powerful it may be, would be able to keep something like this a secret for more than about five minutes. All of these conspiracy theories about aliens residing at 'Area 51', and that a saucer crashed in Roswell, is just so much bad science-fiction, because after all these decades there is still no concrete evidence for their existence (I don't accept dodgy, photo-shopped pictures on the internet).

Then of course you have to ask the question, 'Why are they here, and why are they so interested in us?' Are we really so important in the grand scheme of things? How did they get here? (I don't accept science-fictional concepts like 'warping space', or travelling via wormhole).

Perhaps there are microbes on Mars, and plant life on a planet around Epsilon Eridani (neither would surprise me), but the spacefaring variety are simply not there to be found, at least not within our galaxy, if only because our own appearance on the scene was nothing short of being miraculous. Just think of all of the things that could have gone wrong, the many events that could have prevented our own appearance (ex. the dinosaurs not being wiped out by an asteroid is an obvious one). Then of course there are the things that can still go wrong now (ex. nuclear war, a new dark age brought on by religious fanaticism). The odds stacked against the appearance of intelligent life of any kind (never mind spacefaring civilisations) are, quite literally, astronomical.

Yes, you people sure like to argue a lot, people like you.

What you have posited are a whole bunch of ridiculous assumptions. For starters, that is not a very highly relevant assumption, but an asinine assumption. A visitation by aliens wouldn't transform s**t due to humans being incredibly stupid on average. Any aliens that do visit for purposes of attempting to assist humans would probably more-likely get frustrated at human-stupidity then decide that it's a waste of time trying to get humans caught up to the rest of the inter-galactic society. Now for an "alien contact" clip that indeed describes contact with allegèd aliens by the efforts of the very Carl Sagan himself...



Uh-huh, considering that all of today's "science" was factually regarded as so-called "science-fiction" on a past day, and the fact that history does repeat, your statements clearly show a lack of homework. Now it is time for a quote from Tom Clancy...

I could go onto more book-volumes about this but I'll just limit response to this section of your response at this quote for now.

Why wouldn't they be here and why would space-warping or worm-holes be fiction ? (See above image-quote)
There are plenty of reasons as to why "aliens" would be here and plenty of other reasons as to why "aliens" may not be inter-acting with the human-species. The latter could be for reasons of not interrupting the natural evolutionary development of the human-species (because a direct-visitation could disrupt some of the earthly religious-beliefs or even result in these silly humans turning the visits into a religious belief where the humans write things about how the space-craft are recorded into writings as chariots and falsely praise the aliens as being angels or demons/etc). The former can be for reasons of study & research in the similar manner to how biologists may decide to go observing marine-life.

They could get here from Tesla-type technology rather than the "primitive" technology of "propulsion" systems. The ability to generate your own electro-magno-gravity would automatically remove any "viscocity" and therefore distance-issues would be irrelevant since there is no longer any friction to "propel" through and would thus allow for what would seem like massive distances to humans of the "propulsion is the only way to get from point A to point B" mentality. Not to mention the fact that time slows down as one approaches the speed-of-light (I'm not going to get into the detailed quantum-physics of this right now though).


Now more assumptions that are just so full of face-palming that it's difficult to believe that you've ever bothered to do any actual homework on these phenomenae. Let's assume that the commonly believed notion that the universe itself is 13.8 billion years old is correct. Regarding "modern-technology" and the "emergence of humans" we're looking at a span of around 200K years ago in regards to the earliest "evidence" of modern-humans. Have you even bothered to put the number 200K into a calculator and see how many times it can go into the number of 14 billion ?

Mathematically, and statistically speaking, the odds are absolutely and astoundingly over-whelming that there would not be any existence or emergence of "sentient" life anywhere else within the entire universe for that whole entire 14 billion years duration prior to the emergence of humans, and it's an absolutely arrogant assumption by humans for them to think that they're somehow already at the top of the food-chain and even more naïve that humans believe themselves to actually be smart creatures (humans are incredibly stupid). Basically the very existence of humans should actually be impossible if no other sentient-life/aliens had ever appeared anywhere for 13.8 billion years !

George Carlin had already revealed through his stand-up performances that humans are also actually being kept intentionally stupid (See: George Carlin - Why Education Sucks) and apparently it requires the efforts of "visiting aliens" like myself to try & reverse this self-perpetuating stupidity process...

Well, that's quite a response but, just as you accused me of indulging in pointless speculation, the same can be said about what you have written above. I didn't say that it was absolutely impossible that aliens have, or are, visiting us, but that it was extremely unlikely given the reasons I list.

Fine, you believe in them and I don't. My world would not end if everything you claim turned out to be true, but somehow I just don't think that I will ever live to see that day. People have over the centuries believed in all kinds of weird things, but just because we are now (apparently) living in a sophisticated, rational world where our beliefs have to be made to appear 'sciencey', does not mean that we are any less likely than our distant ancestors to fall for nonsense when it appears before us. People have basically remained the same for the last 30,000 or so years, even though so much else has been transformed well beyond anything that a human living back then would even recognise, so we still have the same wants, desires, delusions, needs, predispositions and all the rest that can make someone see a fairy whilst someone else interprets the illusion as a ghost or an alien.

All I ask for are good reasons to consider this idea, and a bit of evidence to back it up. There exist neither. Film clips where self-professed experts discuss the idea, or that laughably bad 'documentary' Ancient Aliens, or anything along similar lines like what you have linked to is simply not enough. Any advanced alien culture that could traverse the distances from the nearer stars would be so far ahead of us that the idea that, for example, we could 'reverse engineer' their technology is just absurd. We would be like monkeys trying to figure out how particle colliders work. Area 51, Roswell, technology based upon ideas discovered by Tesla - it's a joke, one that only conspiracy theorists subscribe to. During the Middle Ages people claimed to have met witches, but now people say aliens instead (in order to avoid ridicule, apparently). What's the difference? It's a delusion based upon the same psychological mechanism.

You're basically mimicking the exact behaviours of those not interested in ideas; rather, you're only interested in parroting the same-old ideologies of those who frequently call themselves Rationalists/Materialists (who ironically behave in the same Fundamentalist-manner as those whom they purport to be against).

Let us make something clear: I am the one who made states of how certain things could be for certain reasons. Your statements, contrasted, make claims that certain things would happen. BIG difference (you are therefore the one making the claims for things which you clearly have decided of which you are certain which is exactly that of fundamentalist/black-and-white mentalities).

I think we also need to go over the definition of a speculation, considering that it is an ambiguous word, relating to conclusions/theories/hypothesis/etc. Conclusion is regarded as a "final" type of decision. Hypothesis/theories relate to ideas based on gathered information but not necessarily conclusive until tested. Between our posts mine lean more towards the hypothesis/theories category whilst yours are mainly NON-agnostic conclusions (i.e.: you have decided that you already know the answers and that there's thus no need to personally go outside for yourself).

I have travelled around the world at least a dozen times and have lived in or visited just as many different countries and have certainly seen things that absolutely cannot be attributed to swamp-gas nor due to hallucination (considering that there had been others around who also saw the same phenomenon & the hallucination-hypothesis is ruled out as with all the other "conventional" exlpanations since hallucinations are a subjective/personal-experience that isn't shared by two or more people amongst other reasons that "debunk" the "conventional" explanations).

...have a clip of the Mexican-government disclosing the "existence of UFOs" and I know you won't bother to watch nor listen to it of course...

...even if you did, you would probably make claims that images were blurry/distorted, etc. Well, I will tell you a bit about "alien-technology" that allows for hovering around without your primitive human-level "propulsion" systems, and that it's related to the fact that "gel"'ing the electro-magnetic-flux-field (i.e.: similar to a process of how water starts to solidify when being frozen or becomes "thicker" when mixed with certain substances), yes, your earthly human-cameras are certainly going to see fuzz/distortion (here is an experiment you can try: Take a glass of water, look through the glass, note that view is transparent, then grab an ice-cube or a bunch of crushed ice, see if you can "see through" that water any more with any level of visibility/clarity).

Water has viscocity, certainly much thicker than that of "air" within the earth's atmosphere, but the earth's atmosphere itself also has "viscocity" properties, and since your "human-logic" probably can't "see" the "link" between "viscocity" here and viscocity there, I will explain it to you, that when you increase viscocity of anything that has viscocity, you are thickening a substance/element that can or will result in a "bending of light rays" that prevents cameras from seeing what it would otherwise normally see (get your glass of water out & then freeze it or "gel" it whilst looking at it with a camera). You are also probably unfamiliar with "Quantum-Flux" technology so I'll let some of your human "Israeli-Scientists" actually demonstrate before your very eyes what that is for you in yet another video that I know you won't bother to watch but will probably make comments on it anyway...

The earth's electro-magnetic-field has its own type of viscocity (but primarily affects metals rather than other types of elements). Said field also has "current" lines which "wash metals away" that are within those currents unless the metals are "heavier" than the magnetic-current-forces (similarly to how a "river" will "wash debris/rocks/anything-physical" away unless those objects are too heavy for the "current" of said waters to "whisk" away [water-currents typically do not move as quickly as magnetic-currents due to being more "dense" in its particles/elements {viscocity, man, do you dig that word, because viscocitology could be its very own field-of-study !}]).
You also ironically make reference to 'self-professed experts' whilst yourself apparently self-deciding that you are an "expert". Do you know what pseudo-skepticism is ? Do you know who Marcello Truzzi was ? It's one of those types of behaviours where you clearly did not even bother to investigate the videos for yourself (and to equate them as being along the lines of 'Ancient Aliens' also shows a lack of honesty on your part since neither makes any reference to such things as Reverse-Engineering or Roswell [and you also decided to ignore making mention of Rendelsham]). You have made a claim (that such things do not exist), and as such, you are expected to back up your statements when making claims, and I'm not going to accept the "you can't prove a negative" mantra either (because negatives can most-certainly be proven: Elehants do not exist inside my lunch-box, and to prove that, the Lunch-Box only need be opened, showing that there are indeed no elephants inside, a negative proven).


Back to that image again by Tom Clancy (see image earlier in this post by Tom Clancy). Also, you have made yet another claim, and for your information, humans still do NOT know how particle-collidors work or even how computers work for that matter ! Even the worlds TOP scientists/physicists do NOT know "how" even our very own computers that we're using right now to type messages onto these forums work, BUT, they have made observations that allow them to know how to make it work, such as if you combine X component with Y component, when its behaviour is such that a blip is being repeated every 3 x, then it can be noted & accurately predicted that combinations of said components will have a multiple-of-threes effect.

Furthermore, reverse-engineering is not necessarily for the process of "understanding" how something works, but can simply be to get it TO work (I do this all the time with computer-repairs, switching components around as necessary if something gets damaged, but that does not necessarily mean that I know how each component works, just like a mechanic who repairs cars or even air-craft may not be able to explain the "science" behind "combustion/compression" systems, but they can still reverse-engineer something enough with sufficient testing to get results). The first time I took something completely apart & put it back together again was back when I was four (I did it with a radio & a telephone, re-assembled everything, got things to work, and so the parents I used to have at the time gave all of the broken electronics to me for tinkering since I would often manage to fix/repair them somehow even though I could not explain nor understand how or why I managed to get them repaired).

Pseudo-skeptics are a joke, and they waste a lot of time with conjecture, and engage in very ironic rhetorics (and instead of coming up with any good argument you decide to go with ad-hominems as-IF it were somehow a decent argument [hint: it's not]). Let's dissect this a bit further just for the sake of scrutiny: Midieval times certainly had people who made claims that others were witches but they also claimed that anything outside of their paradigm were due to demons, and in case you haven't noticed, them same kinds of people still exist even to this very day, not to mention the fact that there are certainly a number of girls who today either like to call themselves witches or simply call themselves witches due to being Wiccan (more to do with their religious-beliefs in Wiccanism than from being able to hop onto brooms that fly around in the air). Now if you'll excuse me I have more "Quantum-Woo-Woo" that I need to "purvey/promote" elsewhere (actually it's late in this location & so I'm just going to nap). I should also make it clear that I am most-certainly not "trying to avoid ridicule" but rather that I will gladly accept the label of being called a: "Crazy Tin-Foil Hat Lunatic Conspiracy-Theorist"™ !

Thing is, UFO doesn't = Extraterrestrial spacecraft. Just unidentified flying object.
New secret military aircraft: Likely
Extraterrestrial spacecraft: Unlikely

When something actually exists, the likelihood of its existence is inarguable.

Extraterrestrial Aliens visiting Earth
Bigfoot
Loch Ness Monster

Maybe they exist, maybe they don't. But like with God, believing in their existence requires faith based on what most consider to be anecdotal evidence.

There is one chance alien life does not exist, and several hundred billion chances it does, just in this galaxy.

As for coming here, up to WWII we made those new Areoplanes from wood, canvas, and paint. Since then, all metal, jets, composite materials, and we went into space. Technology is proof of evolution.

We are still using V2 technology. It works for surface to orbit, and a slow trip to the Moon, Mars, and the rest.

Once we get out into space, we may build an Electron Ship, that orbits the Sun, and quickly reaches near the speed of light. Reverse the magnetic field, and be flung across the universe, to slow down around another star. It is still a long trip. Stars would provide the fuel, the ship could be all life support.

Maybe in twenty years, maybe fifty, even us could cross the stars.

Now imagine being just a thousand years older. As soon as we can we will be sending probes to other stars. In another five hundred years we will have detailed reports, and may have learned to hibernate.

We can send a crew of sleepers, they will awake on arrival, with a planet with liquid water, some life signs, to explore. They can come back, but to two hundred years in the future. They can stay, grow Earth crops, and own a planet. Just sending a message back takes a hundred years.

Working a shuttle craft, go to work, go to sleep, wake up at another world, a day to you where a hundred years have passed, then back to see your home world two hundred years in the future, and making ten round trips in a lifetime. Go seed a likely planet, return to a two hundred year old forest.

If life formed once, and spread, life on other worlds would be Earth like. All of us Mammals have four legs and a head. Our own species took millions of years to get past chipping rocks. We have been civilized and intelligent for fifty years. Odds on, we will be the smarter of any life form we meet.

More intelligent, we will be arrested when pulling into their Solar System, and put in a zoo. Star Hoppers carry disease.

I can see why they would come here, why they would not be seen, and we have a lack of attractions. Send some Grad Students to do a report, it is grim, because population crash is coming. How The Hairless Ground Apes Poisoned Themselves.

I think we should do some landscaping and irrigation to dress this world up, we may be on Galactic TV.

Actually modern science accepts the probability of intelligent alien life existing is > not existing

The Drake equation (and modern versions of it) based on the number of habitable planets in the universe with the right ratio of temperature, oxygen and water etc. makes it very highly unlikely that intelligent life could only arise once in the entire known universe

If you read Stanton Friedman's thesis on Project Blue Book (the only US government sponsored study on UFOs) you'll find that the government's own data indicates that 21% of UFO sightings are classified as unknown based on the reputable reliability of witnesses and clarity of their sightings. In modern cases there are a range of prominent individuals including the late US President Ronald Reagan, the governor of Arizona, a former UN secretary general, air-force pilots, astronauts, soldiers, police, doctors, priests. Many of the military reporting UFOs work in high security nuclear facilities with relatively high security clearance. Could all of these people mistake a test aircraft for flying saucers? I seriously doubt it...

Many of the objects seen in Arizona for instance by thousands of witnesses (including the governor) are supposed to be a mile in length or the size of a football field. In a court of law it would be irrefutable evidence of a UFO rather than swamp gas or planet Venus.

So the $64,000 question is are they black operation secret test craft? if so then they operate on a level of technology that far surpasses anything science fiction writer could dream up. For instance the argument that remote controlled drones 1 mile in length can fly over cities in the US without making a sound and then vanish in a blink of an eye defies human logic. I have posed this question before that either we are dealing with ETs or our governments are hiding technology that could solve all the world energy problems and are criminal in not sharing these.

The fact that 21% of UFO sightings remain mysterious only means that we still don't know what they were. That's all. One cannot make the assumption that because we could not account for these sightings, that because we couldn't find a mundane explanation for them that they must, therefore, have been alien craft. This is a non sequitur. It was Jimmy Carter, not Ronald Reagan, who claimed to have seen a UFO.



In a court of law one would need more than just the testimony of witnesses, because it is a well-known fact that witnesses end up disagreeing with each other more often than not. In a court of law one would also need physical evidence, motive and opportunity to establish someone's guilt in, for example, a murder trial. Assuming we are indeed being visited by aliens, the question we then need to ask is why. Why are they here? Are we really so important? I don't think we are.



It doesn't just defy logic, but the laws of physics as well, and that's the problem. The people who report such things don't even understand the conservation laws, for example. Objects can't vanish into thin air the way this "craft" was reported to have done. It isn't physically possible.

Yes, most scientists regard the probability that aliens exist to be greater than their non-existence, but that still doesn't mean they actually do. Even if we accept their existence, this in turn does not mean they are actually visiting us.

We need to identify what precisely is under discussion.
Are we discussing "do aliens exist", or "have aliens visited earth."??

The first question can be answered with any number of probabilities, from vastly high to vastly low. But most people find that question to be boring. Imagine that on a planet one hundred light years away from us, there exist a race of highly intelligent dolphin-with-opposable-thumbs people. They have their own arts and philosophies. Their own technology, and vast undersea architecture. But they don't care to explore the above sea portion of their own planet. Or outer space. The chances of our two races ever meeting up is vanishingly small. So we really have no method, except for outright guessing, to tell whether there are aliens out there in space.

Now, "have aliens ever visited earth", that's the really amusing question ! !

Yes, first we would have to establish whether or not they were even out there to begin with, and we have thus far not done this. We simply don't know. If - if - they don't, then all talk about 'close encounters' and such is completely meaningless. The Drake Equation (which someone mentions above), when first formulated, was based upon pure conjecture, and the only thing that has changed since then is that now we have a much better understanding of how likely it is that planets will form. It has nothing to say, however, about how likely it is that aliens will visit us, or even if they will advance far enough to develop space travel.

Valid points



I'm speaking here about otherwise normal people getting slandered as "kooky" for claiming to have seen a UFO. The issue is they have seen a flying object they cant explain. I don't think they are claiming what they saw are ETs. Many skeptics automatically assume they are either delusional or seeking attention without actually examining the cases.



If people "believe" UFOs aren't supposed to exist then ins't that just thinking by consensus? I'm all for applying occam's razor but there seems to be a lot of assumptions made about what it is people are seeing.