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Wolfram87
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14 Jun 2015, 3:35 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Wolfram87, the rational arguments you present about conservation are convincing to me. I have seen a local nature preserve devastated with an overpopulation of deer, then recover after a series of annual culls.

Culling isn't even just about maintaining balance with regards to other species. It's entirely possible for a population to get so large as to die of starvation once food supply vanes, or of infectious disease in a very short timespan. I'm glad the culling was carried out in time, and the preserve recovered. I know killing an animal to aid the same animal seems counter-intuitive to some, but the difference lies in considering the health of the population vs. the health of the individual animal killed. The resulting meat is a welcome bonus.


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Unfortunately, the argument against this is entirely emotional and easily shakes off logic and rational thinking.

Indeed. Few movies have been so detrimental to actual nature enthusiasts as have "Bambi" and "the Fox and the Hound". Also, what kind of mutant is Bambi, anyway? A roe deer that grows up into a whitettail deer? I call shenanigans.


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OliveOilMom
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20 Jun 2015, 6:08 am

Adamantium wrote:
Thanks for the replies.

The most unexpected and delightful answer has to be OOM's:
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I've killed chickens before. Not for eating but for spells.

What an great example of the diversity of thinking and ways of relating to things among us.

I put this in "general autism" because I was thinking about two things that I have seen posted about autism on WP:
1) the idea that all autistic people have some deep emotional connection with animals that will tend to make them vegetarian/vegan and generally aligned with the PETA idea.
2) the idea that autistic people are either Neanderthals or the next step in evolution and have sensory and cognitive characteristics that would make them.

But I also posted this because I am in the early stages of a new special interest: archery. I have been ignoring other things and devouring all information I can possibly get about archery. Naturally, bow hunting comes up as part of this, and I found myself thinking about how I might feel about it.

One of my cats was playing with a partially disemboweled baby rabbit the other day and the poor thing was screaming like a baby. I felt I had to put it out of it's misery and I took a sharp knife and cut it's spine. I felt I was doing it a favor in ending the pain and terror. Honestly, it didn't have much impact on me emotionally, very like catching a fish and I thought that I wouldn't have a problem hunting rabbits to eat, if I needed to. I thought I would be squeamish, because I find medical images disturbing, but it turns out that I am not, at least not in that context.

I would appreciate additional comments from anyone who has experience with hunting. Thanks for sharing your experiences!



I've never been called delightful, but thank you. Was it the chicken thing, really?

As for you, you can probably find a bow hunters group through your county extension. Also, you might want to read the book "We Need To Talk About Kevin". It's not about archery per se, but its about a kid who goes on a murder ranpage in his high school with a bow and arrow. It was made into a movie, but that wasn't very good. Try the county and find some bow hunter groups, I think you'll like it. You ever try muzzle loaders? Thats another old school thing you might like.


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kamiyu910
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20 Jun 2015, 12:47 pm

I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere where we would hunt rabbits and birds. We respect animals, and I do feel bad taking their lives, but nature itself is brutal. We only took what we needed and didn't waste, and made sure the animals died a nice quick and clean death, no suffering.
Same for the animals on our farm that we raised for food. Made sure their life was good, and that they didn't suffer.

It is possible that if I didn't have such severe restrictions on my diet, I would be tempted to go vegetarian. I do love animals, but I do also understand the cycle of life and that death must happen to ensure life, even when talking about plants. Plants are alive, perhaps not the same way we see animals as being alive, but we still say that when a plant wilts and dries up that it has died. There have been studies that show plants react, and some plants even eat insects. Death must occur for life to continue. We just need to not be wasteful and flippant about it, I think


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Adamantium
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29 Jun 2015, 10:19 am

OliveOilMom wrote:
I've never been called delightful, but thank you. Was it the chicken thing, really?


Yes! I really enjoyed the idea of you practicing some sort of ritual magic with a chicken. It's very different from anything that would come up in my habitual frame of reference and I enjoy that kind of thing.

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As for you, you can probably find a bow hunters group through your county extension.

I suppose this may happen if I turn out to be any good at archery.
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Also, you might want to read the book "We Need To Talk About Kevin". It's not about archery per se, but its about a kid who goes on a murder ranpage in his high school with a bow and arrow. It was made into a movie, but that wasn't very good.
I looked this up on amazon and it didn't sound like a tale I would want to get into, but I guess it describes archery in detail in an interesting way? The blurbs were all about the murderous kid and the parent's feelings.

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Try the county and find some bow hunter groups, I think you'll like it. You ever try muzzle loaders? Thats another old school thing you might like.
I have had a little experience with a flintlock pistol and a replica 19th century black powder revolver (Colt model 1860) when I had a room mate who was into guns. I found it to be an enjoyable experience, but not one that would be easy to pursue or inexpensive in my New York City area context. NJ has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, so it's not really something I am considering at the moment.

But target shooting with almost any kind of firearm is certainly fun. I think I understand the pleasure that is exhibited in the youtube videos of Hicock45. I had briefly looked at the possibility of indoor ranges, but around here they tend not to have adequate air filtration systems and represent a pretty significant lead toxicity threat--not from stray bullets, but inhaled lead particles. Nasty, nasty toxic effects from that.



Marky9
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29 Jun 2015, 10:45 am

As a boy, my family took fishing trips; a few times I went squirrel and rabbit hunting with my .22; I once went bird hunting with my Dad.

The fishing and bird hunting were boring. I lacked experience to lead flying birds, and even with a successful shot finding where they landed was almost impossible. (Even today, I sometimes have the same trouble in finding downed foes in video games. :D )

Rabbit and squirrel hunting were fun, but then I enjoy most rifle activities. And oh, my grandmother once sent me outside at her farm to chase-down a chicken for dinner. I never did catch one; those suckers can be fast.

I never did any dressing or butchering; I was just too squeamish.



lostonearth35
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03 Jul 2015, 9:32 pm

Just over a week ago my parents took a trip to St. John in New Brunswick and there was this massive hunting store. My dad loved it. He said he would just stay there while mom could go to whatever stores or places she wanted to go. The store was so big, in fact, that it would be hard to see all of it in one day.

Of course, hearing about that just reminds me how sucky most of the shops where I live are, and the ones that weren't closed down years ago. :(