Question About Republicans and Racism.
29 Jun 2015, 3:05 pm
Dox47 wrote:
Fugu wrote:
oh fun, more semantics. I think i'm done debating you on this.
And by "semantics", you mean "using words correctly according to their meanings".
Also, I'm not sure you "debated" anything, that would have required you to put forth an argument and defend it.
Kraichgauer
Veteran
Joined: 12 Apr 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 47,783
Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
29 Jun 2015, 3:07 pm
Inventor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inventor-
Seriously, if separate but equal was so great, why was it that southern blacks wanted to do away with it so badly?
And as a matter of fact, those schools for blacks were simply inferior - we know that from documentary work that had been done by film crews working for civil rights organizations.
Please, do not try to convince me that things were so great in the south for either blacks or poor whites, because they simple weren't.
Seriously, if separate but equal was so great, why was it that southern blacks wanted to do away with it so badly?
And as a matter of fact, those schools for blacks were simply inferior - we know that from documentary work that had been done by film crews working for civil rights organizations.
Please, do not try to convince me that things were so great in the south for either blacks or poor whites, because they simple weren't.
It was not Southern Blacks that made films, it was Northern Social Engineers.
We had several levels of education. Blacks were a few grade levels behind Whites. Both were rising.
Putting them together by Northern Court Order, Blacks were put in classes they were not prepared for, and Whites were in classes that had to be dumbed down to a lowest common denominator.
Blacks got frustrated, Whites got bored.
The destruction of public education did not benefit either party.
Scholastic Equality can only be mandated at the lowest level.
By ability, Blacks should have been demoted two grades.
What happened is they transferred from a Black Ninth Grade to a White Ninth Grade, where they were sure to fail.
Pre Civil Rights, Blacks stayed in school, graduated with a functional education near what white schools produced.
Post Civil Rights, Blacks dropped out, were pushed out, and were shown to be failures.
This is when we started producing an uneducated, unemployable underclass.
If it was possible to catch up two years, and pass on this years education, it would be part of the system.
All Fifth Graders would be put in Eighth Grade.
As people will commit crime to live if there is no other way, that is what Civil Rights produced.
Most education levels are flat to declining since, and compared to the rest of the world, we fell from the top to 47th.
The US has the highest percentage in jail, most of those for being Black. Russia under Stalin, South Africa, never reached our level of caged Citizens.
This is the result of a one size fits all education.
We also lost better students to boredom. No need to study if the tests could be passed from guesswork.
Magnet Schools, Gifted Programs, tried to educate the 30% who would go on to higher education.
I know it is Racist that less than a third get a University Degree, they should be given to everyone, for equality.
Educational testing is Racist, why should one person get Advanced Placement, we are all equal.
Also people who failed a grade should not be held back till they master the coursework, that is Racist!
The Road to Hell is Paved with Liberal Ideas, Union Teachers, producing a minimal product.
It does not seem possible that the US will ever again reach the top 25% in education, the system is broken.
It has become Day Care and Pre jail Screening.
Following the path of Social Education, downward, the same has held for Incomes, Business started, Patents Applied for, Doctorates granted, and the general functional education of the American Public.
Percentage of Population Employed is historic down.
Employment that would support a family, historic down.
Children born, lowest ever.
These are the future Tax Payers, and my Social Security, and it is a small and under educated group.
They also inherit the National Debt. They inherit a fully stocked Prison System, still in a growth phase.
They inherit a Military that takes half of all government spending, spends as much as the next twenty-five militaries combined, and lost Iraq, Afghanistan, Viet Nam, and a lot of small wars.
So I am Racist for thinking that if 10% of that was spent on Education, supporting the Black Community as a Community, and Native Americans, Hispanics, and whites, all cultures would have risen to much higher levels than we have?
All we got was a Federal Court Order backed up by Federal Marshalls and troops with fixed bayonets.
Blacks were sent to white schools, so we got overcrowding, and no money to build new schools.
Blacks were underperforming at grade level, but we did not get money for remedial staff.
Our view, the intent was playing, let's you and him fight, started by people who did not live in the south.
A proven hundred years of educational advancement was stopped, and has never recovered.
I seem to recall that southern blacks despised the inferior quality of education they received, as well as the inferior school buildings, and inferior text books.
Now are you seriously trying to convince me that this second rate education given to blacks was actually for their benefit? That racism didn't play any part in the inferior status they were given in education?
And are you seriously telling me that blacks had received substandard education because they weren't up intellectually to the same levels as whites? What is this, the old myth that blacks have smaller brains than whites?
_________________
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
29 Jun 2015, 3:48 pm
Inventor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Inventor-
Seriously, if separate but equal was so great, why was it that southern blacks wanted to do away with it so badly?
And as a matter of fact, those schools for blacks were simply inferior - we know that from documentary work that had been done by film crews working for civil rights organizations.
Please, do not try to convince me that things were so great in the south for either blacks or poor whites, because they simple weren't.
Seriously, if separate but equal was so great, why was it that southern blacks wanted to do away with it so badly?
And as a matter of fact, those schools for blacks were simply inferior - we know that from documentary work that had been done by film crews working for civil rights organizations.
Please, do not try to convince me that things were so great in the south for either blacks or poor whites, because they simple weren't.
It was not Southern Blacks that made films, it was Northern Social Engineers.
We had several levels of education. Blacks were a few grade levels behind Whites. Both were rising.
Putting them together by Northern Court Order, Blacks were put in classes they were not prepared for, and Whites were in classes that had to be dumbed down to a lowest common denominator.
Blacks got frustrated, Whites got bored.
The destruction of public education did not benefit either party.
Scholastic Equality can only be mandated at the lowest level.
By ability, Blacks should have been demoted two grades.
What happened is they transferred from a Black Ninth Grade to a White Ninth Grade, where they were sure to fail.
Pre Civil Rights, Blacks stayed in school, graduated with a functional education near what white schools produced.
Post Civil Rights, Blacks dropped out, were pushed out, and were shown to be failures.
This is when we started producing an uneducated, unemployable underclass.
If it was possible to catch up two years, and pass on this years education, it would be part of the system.
All Fifth Graders would be put in Eighth Grade.
As people will commit crime to live if there is no other way, that is what Civil Rights produced.
Most education levels are flat to declining since, and compared to the rest of the world, we fell from the top to 47th.
The US has the highest percentage in jail, most of those for being Black. Russia under Stalin, South Africa, never reached our level of caged Citizens.
This is the result of a one size fits all education.
We also lost better students to boredom. No need to study if the tests could be passed from guesswork.
Magnet Schools, Gifted Programs, tried to educate the 30% who would go on to higher education.
I know it is Racist that less than a third get a University Degree, they should be given to everyone, for equality.
Educational testing is Racist, why should one person get Advanced Placement, we are all equal.
Also people who failed a grade should not be held back till they master the coursework, that is Racist!
The Road to Hell is Paved with Liberal Ideas, Union Teachers, producing a minimal product.
It does not seem possible that the US will ever again reach the top 25% in education, the system is broken.
It has become Day Care and Pre jail Screening.
Following the path of Social Education, downward, the same has held for Incomes, Business started, Patents Applied for, Doctorates granted, and the general functional education of the American Public.
Percentage of Population Employed is historic down.
Employment that would support a family, historic down.
Children born, lowest ever.
These are the future Tax Payers, and my Social Security, and it is a small and under educated group.
They also inherit the National Debt. They inherit a fully stocked Prison System, still in a growth phase.
They inherit a Military that takes half of all government spending, spends as much as the next twenty-five militaries combined, and lost Iraq, Afghanistan, Viet Nam, and a lot of small wars.
So I am Racist for thinking that if 10% of that was spent on Education, supporting the Black Community as a Community, and Native Americans, Hispanics, and whites, all cultures would have risen to much higher levels than we have?
All we got was a Federal Court Order backed up by Federal Marshalls and troops with fixed bayonets.
Blacks were sent to white schools, so we got overcrowding, and no money to build new schools.
Blacks were underperforming at grade level, but we did not get money for remedial staff.
Our view, the intent was playing, let's you and him fight, started by people who did not live in the south.
A proven hundred years of educational advancement was stopped, and has never recovered.
You do realize you are trying to defend outright deep seated racism in the South...
30 Jun 2015, 1:25 am
Do you realize you are trying to defend the destruction of America by failed Social Engineering?
The main predictor of educational outcome is the educational level of the parents.
Both Black and White show this. Parents with a Forth grade education cannot help with Sixth Grade homework.
The use of language is defined by the first six years before school.
For many education in standard English is the first time they heard it, and they have to learn in an alien language.
The little good of TV was replacing thousands of isolated regional dialects with Standard English. In 1963 TV was small, black and white, and expensive, it also took electric power to the house.
Poor whites and blacks living miles out of town on a dirt road with few neighbors, grew up in a world of less than ten people. Hand pump wells, outhouses, wood stoves were common.
The school bus was the first vehicle many had ridden in, and school was the first exposure to the outer world.
As for wanting something better than you have, I want a Hover Board, Better Batteries, a Flying Car, and a Domestic Robot. I am still waiting.
Recently I have been told by early education teachers of children who start school with a very small vocabulary, and do not know any numbers, colors, and other things we take for granted. Teaching them things most learn by three gives education a slow start.
Low education households think that all education comes from school. Head Start was not an extra, it was a needed prep for First Grade.
There was a lot of the culture of poverty, an adult asking a child a question was a threat. Asking a child what 2+2= could cause them to pee their pants, because being singled out in their world often meant being slapped up side the head.
The early education teacher taught Blacks in New Orleans, before she taught Whites in West Virginia, she said both were the same. Small vocabulary, lack of basic words, numbers, letters, colors, and a cultural isolation. City kids did not have words for chicken, cow, pig. She had field trips, raised in the city they had never been to a Park or the Zoo.
Well spoken young children had educated parents, and went to private schools. They were not gifted, they were normal. Public Schools lacked child role models for the others to learn from.
We are still dealing with the dropout problem, social promotion, low standards, that produced the parents. Children starting First Grade are three years behind, Head Start kids only 1 1/2 to 2.
We now have a fixed National Curriculum, in the old days we spent several years bringing them up to speed, with Forth Grade being able to do First Grade work. It worked, once they got started learning progressed. They were several years behind, but we had Black and White Slow Learner Classes, a gentle path to knowledge.
Cramming them all together under Court Mandate cost the slow learners their only chance to learn.
We had been doing this for a while. A hundred years, before school was required. To start with almost all parents were illiterate. Having children who could read stories from the Bible was a miracle. Parents could not help, but they did want a better life for their children. Sometimes most of the school had to go work the farms, in my area six weeks picking strawberries, was their main cash income. Some only went part time, coming back a year or two later to finish the Third Grade.
It was generations, illiterate to Fourth Grade, the next generation to Eighth Grade, and the next to finish High School. It took sixty years, but that family was now educated, and would continue educating their children.
What we did worked. What has happened since 1963 has failed the People and the Country.
Education is the main support of Culture and Economics. America has lost it's place in the world due to lack of an educated population. We did not develop, jobs left, incomes dropped, because of it.
AS Pogo said, "We has met the enemy and they is us."
30 Jun 2015, 8:30 am
Inventor wrote:
Do you realize you are trying to defend the destruction of America by failed Social Engineering?
The main predictor of educational outcome is the educational level of the parents.
Both Black and White show this. Parents with a Forth grade education cannot help with Sixth Grade homework.
The use of language is defined by the first six years before school.
For many education in standard English is the first time they heard it, and they have to learn in an alien language.
The little good of TV was replacing thousands of isolated regional dialects with Standard English. In 1963 TV was small, black and white, and expensive, it also took electric power to the house.
Poor whites and blacks living miles out of town on a dirt road with few neighbors, grew up in a world of less than ten people. Hand pump wells, outhouses, wood stoves were common.
The school bus was the first vehicle many had ridden in, and school was the first exposure to the outer world.
As for wanting something better than you have, I want a Hover Board, Better Batteries, a Flying Car, and a Domestic Robot. I am still waiting.
Recently I have been told by early education teachers of children who start school with a very small vocabulary, and do not know any numbers, colors, and other things we take for granted. Teaching them things most learn by three gives education a slow start.
Low education households think that all education comes from school. Head Start was not an extra, it was a needed prep for First Grade.
There was a lot of the culture of poverty, an adult asking a child a question was a threat. Asking a child what 2+2= could cause them to pee their pants, because being singled out in their world often meant being slapped up side the head.
The early education teacher taught Blacks in New Orleans, before she taught Whites in West Virginia, she said both were the same. Small vocabulary, lack of basic words, numbers, letters, colors, and a cultural isolation. City kids did not have words for chicken, cow, pig. She had field trips, raised in the city they had never been to a Park or the Zoo.
Well spoken young children had educated parents, and went to private schools. They were not gifted, they were normal. Public Schools lacked child role models for the others to learn from.
We are still dealing with the dropout problem, social promotion, low standards, that produced the parents. Children starting First Grade are three years behind, Head Start kids only 1 1/2 to 2.
We now have a fixed National Curriculum, in the old days we spent several years bringing them up to speed, with Forth Grade being able to do First Grade work. It worked, once they got started learning progressed. They were several years behind, but we had Black and White Slow Learner Classes, a gentle path to knowledge.
Cramming them all together under Court Mandate cost the slow learners their only chance to learn.
We had been doing this for a while. A hundred years, before school was required. To start with almost all parents were illiterate. Having children who could read stories from the Bible was a miracle. Parents could not help, but they did want a better life for their children. Sometimes most of the school had to go work the farms, in my area six weeks picking strawberries, was their main cash income. Some only went part time, coming back a year or two later to finish the Third Grade.
It was generations, illiterate to Fourth Grade, the next generation to Eighth Grade, and the next to finish High School. It took sixty years, but that family was now educated, and would continue educating their children.
What we did worked. What has happened since 1963 has failed the People and the Country.
Education is the main support of Culture and Economics. America has lost it's place in the world due to lack of an educated population. We did not develop, jobs left, incomes dropped, because of it.
AS Pogo said, "We has met the enemy and they is us."
The main predictor of educational outcome is the educational level of the parents.
Both Black and White show this. Parents with a Forth grade education cannot help with Sixth Grade homework.
The use of language is defined by the first six years before school.
For many education in standard English is the first time they heard it, and they have to learn in an alien language.
The little good of TV was replacing thousands of isolated regional dialects with Standard English. In 1963 TV was small, black and white, and expensive, it also took electric power to the house.
Poor whites and blacks living miles out of town on a dirt road with few neighbors, grew up in a world of less than ten people. Hand pump wells, outhouses, wood stoves were common.
The school bus was the first vehicle many had ridden in, and school was the first exposure to the outer world.
As for wanting something better than you have, I want a Hover Board, Better Batteries, a Flying Car, and a Domestic Robot. I am still waiting.
Recently I have been told by early education teachers of children who start school with a very small vocabulary, and do not know any numbers, colors, and other things we take for granted. Teaching them things most learn by three gives education a slow start.
Low education households think that all education comes from school. Head Start was not an extra, it was a needed prep for First Grade.
There was a lot of the culture of poverty, an adult asking a child a question was a threat. Asking a child what 2+2= could cause them to pee their pants, because being singled out in their world often meant being slapped up side the head.
The early education teacher taught Blacks in New Orleans, before she taught Whites in West Virginia, she said both were the same. Small vocabulary, lack of basic words, numbers, letters, colors, and a cultural isolation. City kids did not have words for chicken, cow, pig. She had field trips, raised in the city they had never been to a Park or the Zoo.
Well spoken young children had educated parents, and went to private schools. They were not gifted, they were normal. Public Schools lacked child role models for the others to learn from.
We are still dealing with the dropout problem, social promotion, low standards, that produced the parents. Children starting First Grade are three years behind, Head Start kids only 1 1/2 to 2.
We now have a fixed National Curriculum, in the old days we spent several years bringing them up to speed, with Forth Grade being able to do First Grade work. It worked, once they got started learning progressed. They were several years behind, but we had Black and White Slow Learner Classes, a gentle path to knowledge.
Cramming them all together under Court Mandate cost the slow learners their only chance to learn.
We had been doing this for a while. A hundred years, before school was required. To start with almost all parents were illiterate. Having children who could read stories from the Bible was a miracle. Parents could not help, but they did want a better life for their children. Sometimes most of the school had to go work the farms, in my area six weeks picking strawberries, was their main cash income. Some only went part time, coming back a year or two later to finish the Third Grade.
It was generations, illiterate to Fourth Grade, the next generation to Eighth Grade, and the next to finish High School. It took sixty years, but that family was now educated, and would continue educating their children.
What we did worked. What has happened since 1963 has failed the People and the Country.
Education is the main support of Culture and Economics. America has lost it's place in the world due to lack of an educated population. We did not develop, jobs left, incomes dropped, because of it.
AS Pogo said, "We has met the enemy and they is us."
Well Pogo, you have met the enemy and it is you...
30 Jun 2015, 10:42 am
Inventor wrote:
Do you realize you are trying to defend the destruction of America by failed Social Engineering?
The main predictor of educational outcome is the educational level of the parents.
Both Black and White show this. Parents with a Forth grade education cannot help with Sixth Grade homework.
The use of language is defined by the first six years before school.
For many education in standard English is the first time they heard it, and they have to learn in an alien language.
The little good of TV was replacing thousands of isolated regional dialects with Standard English. In 1963 TV was small, black and white, and expensive, it also took electric power to the house.
Poor whites and blacks living miles out of town on a dirt road with few neighbors, grew up in a world of less than ten people. Hand pump wells, outhouses, wood stoves were common.
The school bus was the first vehicle many had ridden in, and school was the first exposure to the outer world.
As for wanting something better than you have, I want a Hover Board, Better Batteries, a Flying Car, and a Domestic Robot. I am still waiting.
Recently I have been told by early education teachers of children who start school with a very small vocabulary, and do not know any numbers, colors, and other things we take for granted. Teaching them things most learn by three gives education a slow start.
Low education households think that all education comes from school. Head Start was not an extra, it was a needed prep for First Grade.
There was a lot of the culture of poverty, an adult asking a child a question was a threat. Asking a child what 2+2= could cause them to pee their pants, because being singled out in their world often meant being slapped up side the head.
The early education teacher taught Blacks in New Orleans, before she taught Whites in West Virginia, she said both were the same. Small vocabulary, lack of basic words, numbers, letters, colors, and a cultural isolation. City kids did not have words for chicken, cow, pig. She had field trips, raised in the city they had never been to a Park or the Zoo.
Well spoken young children had educated parents, and went to private schools. They were not gifted, they were normal. Public Schools lacked child role models for the others to learn from.
We are still dealing with the dropout problem, social promotion, low standards, that produced the parents. Children starting First Grade are three years behind, Head Start kids only 1 1/2 to 2.
We now have a fixed National Curriculum, in the old days we spent several years bringing them up to speed, with Forth Grade being able to do First Grade work. It worked, once they got started learning progressed. They were several years behind, but we had Black and White Slow Learner Classes, a gentle path to knowledge.
Cramming them all together under Court Mandate cost the slow learners their only chance to learn.
We had been doing this for a while. A hundred years, before school was required. To start with almost all parents were illiterate. Having children who could read stories from the Bible was a miracle. Parents could not help, but they did want a better life for their children. Sometimes most of the school had to go work the farms, in my area six weeks picking strawberries, was their main cash income. Some only went part time, coming back a year or two later to finish the Third Grade.
It was generations, illiterate to Fourth Grade, the next generation to Eighth Grade, and the next to finish High School. It took sixty years, but that family was now educated, and would continue educating their children.
What we did worked. What has happened since 1963 has failed the People and the Country.
Education is the main support of Culture and Economics. America has lost it's place in the world due to lack of an educated population. We did not develop, jobs left, incomes dropped, because of it.
AS Pogo said, "We has met the enemy and they is us."
is this why education has been frequently gutted by conservative interests over the past ~40 years? because something something social engineers?
The main predictor of educational outcome is the educational level of the parents.
Both Black and White show this. Parents with a Forth grade education cannot help with Sixth Grade homework.
The use of language is defined by the first six years before school.
For many education in standard English is the first time they heard it, and they have to learn in an alien language.
The little good of TV was replacing thousands of isolated regional dialects with Standard English. In 1963 TV was small, black and white, and expensive, it also took electric power to the house.
Poor whites and blacks living miles out of town on a dirt road with few neighbors, grew up in a world of less than ten people. Hand pump wells, outhouses, wood stoves were common.
The school bus was the first vehicle many had ridden in, and school was the first exposure to the outer world.
As for wanting something better than you have, I want a Hover Board, Better Batteries, a Flying Car, and a Domestic Robot. I am still waiting.
Recently I have been told by early education teachers of children who start school with a very small vocabulary, and do not know any numbers, colors, and other things we take for granted. Teaching them things most learn by three gives education a slow start.
Low education households think that all education comes from school. Head Start was not an extra, it was a needed prep for First Grade.
There was a lot of the culture of poverty, an adult asking a child a question was a threat. Asking a child what 2+2= could cause them to pee their pants, because being singled out in their world often meant being slapped up side the head.
The early education teacher taught Blacks in New Orleans, before she taught Whites in West Virginia, she said both were the same. Small vocabulary, lack of basic words, numbers, letters, colors, and a cultural isolation. City kids did not have words for chicken, cow, pig. She had field trips, raised in the city they had never been to a Park or the Zoo.
Well spoken young children had educated parents, and went to private schools. They were not gifted, they were normal. Public Schools lacked child role models for the others to learn from.
We are still dealing with the dropout problem, social promotion, low standards, that produced the parents. Children starting First Grade are three years behind, Head Start kids only 1 1/2 to 2.
We now have a fixed National Curriculum, in the old days we spent several years bringing them up to speed, with Forth Grade being able to do First Grade work. It worked, once they got started learning progressed. They were several years behind, but we had Black and White Slow Learner Classes, a gentle path to knowledge.
Cramming them all together under Court Mandate cost the slow learners their only chance to learn.
We had been doing this for a while. A hundred years, before school was required. To start with almost all parents were illiterate. Having children who could read stories from the Bible was a miracle. Parents could not help, but they did want a better life for their children. Sometimes most of the school had to go work the farms, in my area six weeks picking strawberries, was their main cash income. Some only went part time, coming back a year or two later to finish the Third Grade.
It was generations, illiterate to Fourth Grade, the next generation to Eighth Grade, and the next to finish High School. It took sixty years, but that family was now educated, and would continue educating their children.
What we did worked. What has happened since 1963 has failed the People and the Country.
Education is the main support of Culture and Economics. America has lost it's place in the world due to lack of an educated population. We did not develop, jobs left, incomes dropped, because of it.
AS Pogo said, "We has met the enemy and they is us."
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