parents who can't live independently

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I don't think that people really have kids to get more money - people who are against taxes like to say that, but the reality is that the poorer you are, the less support you have to access more effective birth control.

League Girl, I think this is a really good assessment of what a person on the spectrum needs to be able to handle - you are doing all of this stuff even WITH the support of your Mom, right? I always appreciate what a good and thoughtful parent you are.

I am still waiting for parenting to ease up with my son, and he's fourteen. Yes, he can dress himself...and sometimes feed himself...and sometimes get himself where he needs to be - but I still need to be MANAGING all of that, and frankly it was in some ways easier when he was a baby and I just did it all myself. Granted, neither of us is NT, but I'm not seeing it be significantly easier for my NT friends and their kids.

Ettina, I think you want to hear something other than what we're saying, but it sound like the consensus is that if you want to have a kid, you need to find ways to build up the skills you don't have. You are young, and I think you are underestimating your ability to grow and learn.

When DS wants to do something I don't think he's ready for, I outline the skills I think he needs to develop and explain that he can do it when he can demonstrate XYZ skills. There are all kinds of work-arounds, strategies and accommodations that allow him to come up with a wide range of skills. The same was true for me: I'm not good at all kinds of stuff, but I did learn how to be independent by building skills in ways that were drastically different from my NT peers.

I have a friend who is significantly disabled (not sure how, but at least part of it is a cognitive disability.) She would certainly qualify to live in an institution, but she decided she wanted to marry her husband (also disabled in a similar way) and to work. They lived together in an apartment in a minimally supportive housing building...and her apartment is SIGNIFICANTLY more tidy than mine. The only support offered to her is that there are spot checks on the apartments to make sure they are clean enough to be safe (although hers is clean enough to be beautiful.)

I always think of her when I'm struggling with EF skills: if she can find a way to do it, then so can I.

I'm not young, I'm 26. If I wait too long, my fertility will go down, and I'll be forced to adopt when I'd rather have a biological child. I'm scared of the process adoptive parents have to go through. Just like you guys, an adoption agency might not be able to look past my disabilities to see that I have a support system in place to deal with them.

Anyway, I really wanted to hear from someone who's had a kid while not living independently, and instead I got a whole bunch of people saying it can't be done and calling me selfish for wanting a child. (Who isn't selfish in wanting a child? Only a small minority of adoptive parents, as far as I can tell.)

I believe League Girl doesn't live totally independently.

I would not worry about fertility: I know many of us here are "older" parents, I had DS when I was in my early 30s and had a baby at the time that I chose even though I had very poor reproductive health from the time I turned 20. If it is a real concern, you might consider having some of your eggs frozen.

I understand your frustration, and I'm sorry if nobody is saying what you want to hear...but I think you really should sit down and take it in.

The people who responded here have real insight into what you are asking: we are experienced parents, and many of us struggle with the same issues you do and have lived lives where our ability to be independent has varied (I lived at home, largely because I didn't have skills, until I was 22. I would not have made a good mother, even if my parents had been the sort to be supportive.)

An unwillingness to work on one's own skillls is in itself is an indication that parenting will be very difficult for you - and your child. Parenting is about constantly learning and changing and coming up with new strategies, and it's better to practice those skills on yourself than it is on a human being who is totally dependent on you.

I know those skills are frustrating, but I believe that with time and effort, you can come up with strategies and work-arounds.

Ettina, in terms of childbearing, you are young. And it is not unusual for people to be on the spectrum to have their developmental age be a few years behind their chronological age.

I seriously don't think anyone should have a baby until they are 30. And at 26, you have time.

Perhaps the reason you are not getting the feedback you had hoped for is because most people who cannot live independently do not opt to have children. There is a reason for that. And we are trying to help you understand that. It seems to me you are taking people's genuine and heartfelt feedback as a criticism of you as a person or as an attack. I encourage you, instead, to understand that parents...some of whom share many of the same challenges as you...are sharing their honest and candid feedback about what is perhaps the biggest decision a person can make. And I don't recall anyone telling you that you shouldn't have kids. Instead, we have told you that you should take some time to develop the skills you will need now.

I would never recommend that anyone, with or without disabilities, have their plan to be to have their parents take care of their children. Parents get sick. They die. They have devoted many years of their lives raising their own children. Most parents I know look forward to the day that they can go back to not being a "parent." I don't mean that to sound mean. Or that we don't love being parents or love our children. But, my gosh, what I wouldn't do sometimes to be able to do what I want to do. When I want to do it. I can't just go to a movie because I'd like to see it. I can't go to bed early. I can't wake up late. I can't take a trip to the country to unwind because my week felt like hell. I can't just decide I want to hop on a plane and see my family. EVERY decision I make involves an immediate assessment of how it impacts my kids and what additional plans I need to make to accommodate their needs. I am not complaining about this, and I would not change it. But I would be lying if I didn't say that I am looking forward to the day that I can do these things again. If my daughter ends up not being able to live independently, that would be taken away from me if she asked me to take care of a baby that she decided to have under my roof because she could not take care of it by herself.

I do not think you are selfish. But I do think you do not fully understand how this decision would impact you, your parents, and your child if you had one.

Why are you resistant to the idea of working on gaining the skills you need to live independently? I think you should do some soul searching about that because understanding it may help you figure out how to move forward.

My Mom gave birth to me when she was 26.



But what if I don't develop those skills?



You may feel that way. My parents have told me they don't. I would not expect them to help me with this if they were not willing to do so.

And I'm not planning for them to take care of my child or children. I'm just thinking of having them help out. I will be the primary caregiver - I'd only need their help making sure we have a habitable house to live in and maybe some help with transportation and scheduling. I'll be the one feeding the kids, changing their diapers, teaching them new skills (with the exception of peeing standing up if I have a son), comforting them when they're upset, and so forth. They might babysit from time to time, but I will be the primary caregiver.



I'm not resistant to it at all! I'd love to be able to live independently. I just don't know if it's actually possible for me, and I don't want whether I can keep my house clean and the bills paid to be the gatekeeper to whether I have a child.

And even if I do gain those skills, they might still take a lot of effort - effort that I could instead devote to being the best parent I can be.

I don't think it's practical to count on me learning a set of skills I find extremely difficult, and then somehow getting them to be automatic enough to actually be able to do it everyday and still do other stuff, without having some sort of back-up plan.

My mom gave birth to me when she was 18. I had my son when I was 35. The two facts are not related in any way.



What if you do? How do you know you can't? If you have a goal that means so much to you, you may be able to do way more than you give yourself credit for.



I do not know your parents. I do know, however, that if my daughter ends up in your shoes one day, and has the same desire you do, I would likely tell her that I didn't mind helping her. Because I love her and her happiness is more important to me than my own.

But you are missing the main point and focusing on a minor one...your parents could get sick. They could die. What if that happens? What would you do? If your mom had you when she was 26 and you are 26, it doesn't take a mathematician to calculate that your mom is no longer "young." I am assuming your father is of a similar age or older. This is the age where health issues start kicking in. The main point is that your "plan" may end up, sadly, being a temporary or short-lived one. If you truly do not believe you can take care of a child on your own, then you need to consider what would happen if Plan A doesn't work. Do you think you will magically develop the skills you need? What if your parents become ill and actually need you to take care of them? How would that be remotely possible if you have a child that you cannot care for? These are critical decisions, Ettina, because they are permanent ones with longterm consequences. There are plenty of people out there who have kids who have no business having them (I am not saying you are one). That doesn't make it right. That makes it tragic. And the kid is the one who pays.



Ettina, I so totally understand where you are coming from. I can hear your desperation and desire. It makes my heart hurt and I don't even know you. If you cannot manage to live independently, then your parents will be doing more than "helping out." They will be supporting you, and your kid. I have many friends who are fortunate enough to have their moms "help out" with their kids. But they are only helping. If they were to die tomorrow, my friends would be able to survive without them and their kids would be able to continue to thrive.

What is your plan if your parents die or become disabled? My brother-in-law had a stroke when he was younger than your mother and he requires total care. And I mean total care. What would happen to you and your child/children if that happened in your situation? These are things you need to seriously consider.



Ettina, being independent is so much more than keeping your house clean and paying bills. I know you know that and that was just an example.

I have a question...have you ever tried living independently? Are you certain you can't do it? I was a much bigger slob when I lived in my parent's house. I was still pretty much a slob before I had kids, but now that I have kids, I have become better. I also was not good at paying bills when I was living with my husband. But when we got separated, somehow I was able to do it. I don't know how, because I have the same EF deficits. But somehow I did it. I did a lot of things in those 2 years of separation that I did not think I could do.



Now you are kind of talking my language...what is your back-up plan? If your plan is your parents, what is your back-up plan?

What would happen if you set yourself 1 concrete goal to reach per month that had to do with lifeskills/independence. See what you can do. Your biological clock is not ticking yet, though I understand your emotional one is. Why not spend the next year or two focusing, in earnest, in trying to establish yourself as an independent person? You may surprise yourself!

OK, then again - what's your hurry? Even if your Mom had you at 26, that doesn't mean you can't wait for a while. Your skillset in all likelihood (and the consensus of the older BAP posters here) is going to improve, but even if it doesn't, you've lost nothing at all by waiting, and have gained the ability to plan your family. I think it's very possible that building independent living skills and building parenting skills are one and the same, and definitely not at odds with each other.

For instance, you could try being a foster parent in the meantime, which will give you a much better idea of what it looks like, and you can do it with the support of your parents so they know what it looks like, but it will be temporary (some adoption agencies actually have specific short-term foster programs for newborn babies who are going to be placed for adoption) We had actually considered this for a while ourselves...and still think about it as DS gets older.

Taking some time to really explore what parenting will actually mean will make you significantly more prepared to be a parent than you are now, and thus you will be a better parent to your own child.

Ok, look I was barely able to live independently. As in totally by myself. I had a very hard time making it to appointments, making appointments, taking care of my apartment, laundry, work, getting to class, taxes... etc.

Getting married actually simplified some of this and made it easier. He took care of the lawn and taxes, I take care of drs appointments. SO ok, things got simpler and seemed ok.

Then we had kids.

Not ok. I'm handling it. I'm providing what they need because I HAVE to but if I had to make a grand admission here *I* am not ok. I have to force myself, every day, to learn and do these tasks for my kids and it leaves nothing for me and very little of me for my husband.

It's not a race. My grandmother had my mother when she was 42 and my aunt when she was 45. You have time.



If you don't, then bluntly, you should not have kids.


This is not a puppy and you are grossly underestimating how much work feeding, changing diapers, and learning new skills is. And, to be totally honest, I've found kids are more work as they get older, not less. I long for the days of changing diapers! Unless you plan to stick your kid in a bubble, there will be activities like soccer or dance to take them to, play dates, birthday parties, trips to the park, trips to the museum, the zoo, field trips, camps etc.. etc.. also as a parent you are generally expected to contribute your time to the school. Often for many of these sorts of activities like soccer or scouting, the parents are also expected to participate and contribute.

The suppose your kids are on the spectrum like mine? Now I've got to take them to umpteen million OT, PT etc..etc.. appointments. Most days I'm out the door at 5:30 to go to work, pick the kiddo up at 3 from school and then off to PT or counseling or girl scouts or grabbing her little sis and heading to OT, soccer, or whatever. Then on top of that feeding them, making sure homework is done, and then get them both into bed by 8pm. It is re-do-diculous and it is all about them all the time and when I hit an area of weakness where I'm lacking in skills? Holy ***t storm. It blows up because it's like a tooth pick holding up a suspension bridge.

Kids don't stay babies for ever and when they do get older they are not expressionless little marionettes. They have wants/needs/desires of their own.




You are putting the cart way way way before the horse. If you know you cannot keep a clean house or have bills paid on time with ONE person living in it, what do you think it will be like with another small person who does not really clean up after themselves or pay any bills of their own accord. Further if you cannot pay bills on time, how can you ever even manage to get this kid to do their homework on time? Get to school on time? Get signed up for activities like softball or choir on time and show up at those activities?

Kids are a lot of work beyond basic needs. It's not 1) eat, 2) poop), 3) sleep like a cat or a dog. It's so much more.

Consider this. Suppose you go ahead and have a baby. Suppose something happens and your parents aren't able to help you as much as you had hoped for whatever reason. Suppose you aren't able to also learn these skills. Now your house is half hoarded, you missed paying your bills and the electric is turned of and CPS shows up and takes your kid away.

Do yourself a favor and wait. You can easily wait 5 years minimum with no impact to health. This is not a puppy, this is a person.

I had my son when I was 40. He is now 10 and I am 50, so I am probably close to your parents age. My son is on the spectrum, and I pray every day that I will live long enough to get him into adulthood. I am in good health, but honestly, parenting is exhausting, and I only have one child. I guess I am telling you this to let you know that the older your parents get, the harder it will be for them to help out. But, you are saying that they are on board with it, so maybe they are more energetic than I am. I also have a husband to help out as well.

I can completely understand your desires, and I don't want to say it is not possible, but I think you have to be realistic. I think foster parenting with your parents would be a great idea. They could actually sign up to be the foster parents and you could just help out with it, and if it doesn't work, then you won't have to commit. You would be surprised at how easily you could fall in love with another child that isn't your biological child.

I am just curious, and you don't have to answer if you don't want to, but how do you know that it is not possible to find a partner? Maybe you will meet someone that you click with, and it will work out. I am with the other posters in that you have time, you are not ancient by any means!

As far as your biological clock ticking, you've got at least 10 years. Statistically speaking, female fertility doesn't start to seriously decline until about age 37, and plenty of women manage to have their first child between 37-42 despite the decline. 42 is the upper limit for egg freezing at a local fertility clinic, or at least it was 5 years ago -- they're always making progress with these things.

I am also wondering about affection.

I don't understand being aromantic.

Forgive me if this is way off base, but what kind of relationship do you have with your parents? Are you close to them? Affectionate? Do you like to hug?

It seems to me that while there is a clear distinction between love for a parent, love for a child and love for a romantic partner, there are common elements to these kinds of affection as well.

Anyway, most kids need a lot of affection. Hugs, kisses, a hand on the shoulder, an arm across the back, piggy back rides, it's very physically intense.

I almost think this is the most important thing for a parent--if you can support your child emotionally, then economic ups and downs are just one of those things, like weather. If you can support your child emotionally and give them the affection they need, then having a tidy or messy house is not nearly as important.

In my mind, there is some connection between the love and affection I feel for my wife and the love and affection I feel for my kids. That intimacy is what kind of makes us a family. Whatever the world may bring, we support each other, we "have each other's back" and affection is sort of the glue that holds that together and makes it feel safe.

I don't know if being aromantic means you don't have that kind of feeling for other people, or if that is just about more sexual intimacy--but being very emotionally close is an essential part of being a parent. I hope that my asking this about you is not upsetting--it just was something on my mind since I read the opening post but that I wasn't really able to articulate before.

I have no trouble being physically affectionate to family members. Nor do I have trouble being affectionate towards children who've sought affection from me in the past.

That's great! I think that's the most important thing a parent has to be ready to give.

I like momsparky's suggestion of really exploring what this would mean:


I wish you well and hope this all works out for you.

I'm assuming you have some serious cash and will be doing IVF with sperm bank donation, as I have heard nothing about the bio dad in this conversation at all.

Which is fine, but you must prepare yourself for the kid to hunt down the bio dad, which my friend's daughter is currently doing. They went the IVF/sperm bank route due to infertility reasons.

Adoption is no picnic. That is a serious $20K+ cash outlay. Legally free kids in foster care (older kids 3 years and up) are not true closed adoptions either. They usually have something about must be able to have a relationship with siblings or some other relative. Aunt, grandma, whoever and you must guarantee that those visits will happen. Overseas adoptions, since the Hague Convention went through, that is pretty well dead in the US. Because you have a condition, not one of the usual countries would adopt to a single women with a disability. And ASD is considered a disability in those countries.

There are private adoptions, but then you are competing with every other couple on the planet for those few infants.

Do you have a bio dad lined up? Even if he wants nothing to do with you or the kid, relatives (especially grandparents), can make your life miserable.

About help. Yes it can work out, but remember those who help out have the right to toss their opinions into the ring. It's your kid, but living with mom and dad means the their rules. When you have a developmental disorder, you get judged more harshly and your decisions looked over a bit more, than the average Joe Blow.

Raising a kid is more than just lining up help. Unless the bio dad and his side of the family want nothing to do with you, you have to deal with them. Foster to adopt. More people, more hoops to jump, money, more relationships. Adoption, same deal. IVF+sperm bank would be the most straight forward way. But could you find doctor who will do the procedure on a woman who is counting on her family putting in good chunk of time towards the child's welfare? Who knows?

Maybe you have worked all above out, I just haven't seen these issues brought up in the thread. Wanting a child is fine, but it brings a spider Web of relationships with it, whether bio dad and his family or adoption.

Your question has many more layers than you realize. On the surface, yes it can work. But you haven't mention all this other stuff, which will show up eventually.

I also want to make sure you are hearing this: not one person who posted here has said you shouldn't be a parent. This entire thread has been about making sure you line up the resources and tools you personally need BEFORE you become a parent.

I worry about whether I will be able to cope with a child. In my case, I find things like shopping offline and cleaning difficult but can do them.

I'm interested in working with children once I graduate and have been gaining experience to help me do this. I've discovered that I'm actually quite good with children with special needs (to the point that I now have parents who request me to be the 1:1 carer for their child).

I find working with older NT children more difficult, particularly as their conversations tend to be more complex but I can manage it. I'm not as funny as other people, but the children like we well enough and I can keep them safe and happy.

However, I've also discovered that working with children is exhausting. I have to adapt to routines not being followed, deal with conflicts between children (which will happen if your child has playdates or even if they want to talk about an argument after school). When I'm working 1:1 with children it can mean watching that child constantly for 10 hours with no lunch break (because I can't trust the other adults to cope with the child properly and the fallout is more difficult than just supervising in the first instance). It means constantly being alert for minute signs that means the child may be upset/meltdown impending and deciding on the best course of action. It means that dealing with meltdowns which, when I'm tired or feeling unwell can be stressful, and putting those feelings aside to make sure I'm ready to bounce back when the child it ready.

It means talking to other people to ensure that they understand the needs of the child and reiterating their needs discretely whenever a situation arises.

It means that often when I get home I want nothing more than to have some quiet time to myself.

Raising a child is different to providing childcare, yes, but not because providing childcare is harder. If I had my own children, getting a break would be much harder to come by. Having a child is much more responsibility, especially when I consider that the odds of me having a disabled child are very high (if not autism, then I've been told my chances of having a deaf child are as high as 50/50 - so my wife has signed up for a sign language course).

If you have a relative with children, could you possibly do some extended babysitting for them? I could understand if they were apprehensive about leaving you as the sole carer but possibly they could take a more 'fly on the wall' approach - such as being able to step in if you couldn't handle a situation. Or maybe volunteering at a club for children?Then you might be able to get an idea of how much effort it might take you and which skills you need to develop before you have children.