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NewTime
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24 Jun 2015, 1:22 pm

Are there any gay people who believe they choose to be gay?



blauSamstag
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24 Jun 2015, 2:42 pm

Probably.



blauSamstag
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24 Jun 2015, 3:19 pm

I'm straight.

Almost all gay men i have talked to have talked about the struggle of trying not to be gay.

I did know one guy, we figured he only identified as gay because no woman will ever have him. A gay mutual friend countered that no man ever will either.

Some people have weak personalities and become the victims of people who prey on the weak, and it is normal, unfortunately, for people who were abused to emulate their abusers and/or seek approval from everyone the way their abuser expected them to. In that sense, there are likely gay people who weren't born that way.

And i have met a distressing number of lesbians who insist that having repeatedly been raped by their mother's boyfriend or their step father has nothing at all to do with their inability to form romantic relationships with men. And neither does their crippling fear of phallic symbols.

And then there is the LUG thing.



adifferentname
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24 Jun 2015, 4:02 pm

NewTime wrote:
Are there any gay people who believe they choose to be gay?


There are certainly gay people who believe they can choose to not be gay.



Kraichgauer
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24 Jun 2015, 10:03 pm

I think there are some people who know who know they are gay, and have never been anything else. Then there are some who fit more into the bisexual category, and will eventually go entirely straight, or entirely gay.


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izzeme
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25 Jun 2015, 2:53 am

i'm sure that *some* gays have chosen to be so, but the majority is gay from birth, wherther they accept it or not



adifferentname
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25 Jun 2015, 3:03 am

izzeme wrote:
i'm sure that *some* gays have chosen to be so, but the majority is gay from birth, wherther they accept it or not


Until such a time as a "gay gene" is definitively proved, I remain dubious that homosexuality is largely biologically determined. Of course, that doesn't necessarily make it any more of a "choice".

Either way, I'm curious as to the reason for the question in the OP. The important thing to remember is that homosexuality is not a moral failing, no matter the "cause".



The_Walrus
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25 Jun 2015, 3:58 am

adifferentname wrote:
izzeme wrote:
i'm sure that *some* gays have chosen to be so, but the majority is gay from birth, wherther they accept it or not


Until such a time as a "gay gene" is definitively proved, I remain dubious that homosexuality is largely biologically determined.

A single "gay gene" is unlikely to be identified, but there is considerable evidence that homosexuality has genetic causes as well as other biological causes. Twin studies show identical twins are more likely to share a sexual orientation than fraternal twins, which can only be explained genetically. Fraternal birth order is also important - men whose mothers had already given birth to boys are more likely to be homosexual, even if they weren't raised with brothers (that's both "biological" and "from birth"). Some research has even found specific areas of the genome contributing to homosexuality.



Ban-Dodger
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25 Jun 2015, 4:10 am

Some sources believe that a body being contaminated by mercury and aluminum causes homosexuality.

Also, you should keep in mind, mind-altering substances exist but are NOT limited to just drugs and alcohol, nor are they limited to to substances (certain types of gases or even types of electronic-frequencies are known to cause changes in behaviours, and the sound-frequencies from that sonar-weapon that the U.S. Navy was testing back in the day caused a massive number of whales to beach themselves, but I will leave it up to you to look up such terms as psycho-tronic for yourself [some of it also being associated with things like MK-Ultra, mass-hypnosis, propaganda, alterations of alpha/beta-waves from television-emissions, etc]).

P.S.: I plan to grow my hair out really long & start wearing dresses, and this is going to be by choice, but I am still not gay, I remain straight. The main reason I feel like doing it is so that any of my associated family stops buying me all these clothes since we already have too many (and I can be a lot pickier about what types of female-clothes I would choose to wear, even going so far as to insist that it must be cos-play clothes & wigs of hair-length that reaches down to the tail-bone or even the ankles, for which I can then later on have any future girl-friends wear to make her look super-sexy whilst I proceed to have sex with her ! :D ).


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Last edited by Ban-Dodger on 25 Jun 2015, 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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25 Jun 2015, 4:13 am

In female-prisons, the women there sometimes claim to be "gay for the stay". Although in reality they were probably always a closet-bisexual before that.



jimmyboy76453
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25 Jun 2015, 4:38 am

I only know my own experience, and I know my experience is different than some others.' For me, it was not a choice and it was never really a question. From the moment I was sexually aware, I was attracted to men and not attracted to women.
If it had been a choice, I may have chosen differently in the past, but I would not choose differently for myself now. I love my partnership and my life w/ my partner. I can appreciate what the experience of being gay taught me about family, both blood and chosen, about prejudice, about having self-pride in the face of judgment, and about people's habit of believing things or doing things without thinking about why or deciding for themselves whether they should. There are a lot of valuable lessons that I never would have learned if I had grown up strait like everyone else. Because of that, you couldn't pay me a million dollars to be strait..


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25 Jun 2015, 5:50 am

The_Walrus wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
izzeme wrote:
i'm sure that *some* gays have chosen to be so, but the majority is gay from birth, wherther they accept it or not


Until such a time as a "gay gene" is definitively proved, I remain dubious that homosexuality is largely biologically determined.

A single "gay gene" is unlikely to be identified, but there is considerable evidence that homosexuality has genetic causes as well as other biological causes. Twin studies show identical twins are more likely to share a sexual orientation than fraternal twins, which can only be explained genetically. Fraternal birth order is also important - men whose mothers had already given birth to boys are more likely to be homosexual, even if they weren't raised with brothers (that's both "biological" and "from birth"). Some research has even found specific areas of the genome contributing to homosexuality.

Also, genes aren't the only biological influence, by far. There are other environmental factors at work besides the genome, hence the birth order effect. It's a common misconception though, that biology = genes.


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adifferentname
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25 Jun 2015, 6:24 am

The_Walrus wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
izzeme wrote:
i'm sure that *some* gays have chosen to be so, but the majority is gay from birth, wherther they accept it or not


Until such a time as a "gay gene" is definitively proved, I remain dubious that homosexuality is largely biologically determined.

A single "gay gene" is unlikely to be identified, but there is considerable evidence that homosexuality has genetic causes as well as other biological causes. Twin studies show identical twins are more likely to share a sexual orientation than fraternal twins, which can only be explained genetically. Fraternal birth order is also important - men whose mothers had already given birth to boys are more likely to be homosexual, even if they weren't raised with brothers (that's both "biological" and "from birth"). Some research has even found specific areas of the genome contributing to homosexuality.


I'm aware of the studies, and I remain unconvinced that genetics is the determining factor. A higher incidence of shared orientation in identical twins could simply be the result of amplified narcissism - were it actually demonstrated. That 52% figure from the Bailey study can be considered a cherry-picked misrepresentation - though I'm not implying by yourself. A more accurate interpretation of the data is that if one Monozygotic twin has a same sex attraction, the likelihood of the second twin having a same sex attraction is around 10%.

There is always the possibility that there is some minor genetic component to sexual attraction, but the existence of a binary on/off homosexual gene runs counter to the theory of evolution on the obvious grounds of natural selection.

It is important to remember that the numerous studies in this field are largely political in nature, and approached from more than one political perspective. There's a reason we're not looking for a "heterosexual" or "orientation" gene. I understand the desire for conclusive proof that "I was born this way" on a personal level (as, no doubt, can all late-diagnosis aspies). Likewise, I understand the desire for socio-political acceptance on the grounds of biological determinism. Nevertheless, current studies are proving counter-productive to these ends. Most researchers, regardless of affiliation, seem to agree that environmental factors are more significant than any genetic factor.

Magneto wrote:
Also, genes aren't the only biological influence, by far. There are other environmental factors at work besides the genome, hence the birth order effect. It's a common misconception though, that biology = genes.


Well, there have been studies into e.g. in utero hormonal influence between twins, but these are generally discounted as relevant (or even plausible). I'm not sure what other pre-natal factors could be considered pertinent. As you suggest, the birth order effect is a clear indicator that nurture is more important to the equation than nature.



Kraichgauer
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25 Jun 2015, 1:51 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
izzeme wrote:
i'm sure that *some* gays have chosen to be so, but the majority is gay from birth, wherther they accept it or not


Until such a time as a "gay gene" is definitively proved, I remain dubious that homosexuality is largely biologically determined.

A single "gay gene" is unlikely to be identified, but there is considerable evidence that homosexuality has genetic causes as well as other biological causes. Twin studies show identical twins are more likely to share a sexual orientation than fraternal twins, which can only be explained genetically. Fraternal birth order is also important - men whose mothers had already given birth to boys are more likely to be homosexual, even if they weren't raised with brothers (that's both "biological" and "from birth"). Some research has even found specific areas of the genome contributing to homosexuality.


Concerning a gay child being born after a mother already has given birth to straight boys - that sounds exactly like my best man at my wedding. He had had two older brothers in a row, plus an unborn sibling who had been a miscarriage (a boy, I suspect), and surprise, surprise, my friend is gay. So, yes, that makes a lot of sense to me.


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25 Jun 2015, 2:31 pm

Everyone has a choice on how they choose to live.

However, you can't choose how you feel.

How you feel doesn't dictate what you must choose in how to live.

Sexual conduct is not a simple black or white choice.