TV Land pulls Dukes of Hazzard reruns over Confederate Flag!

Post Reply New Topic

You see the flag a whole lot down here. There are some Southern blacks and Southern whites as well who see it as a symbol of racism but most don't. If the flag was so offensive to Southern black people then why isn't there always a big stink when you see it? Why isn't it vandalized? Why don't people who wear it get their ass kicked by those who believe it means they are racists? Why hasn't it been a huge issue down here? You can bet your bottom dollar that if somebody wore something with the Klan on it they would get their ass kicked. If somebody flew the Nazi flag or a flag with something to do with the Klan on it then it would be torn down, torn up, burned, etc. There would be a huge stink every time the flag was seen in public if the majority of people down here thought of it the way Northerners think of it. Race and racial insults and offense are still a sore spot down here. It's something that people do try to avoid upsetting the apple cart on because we are aware of our history and don't want to give that impression. There are some racists who want to give that impression but most people aren't racists. A lot of the Southerners who are against the flag do understand that it doesn't stand for racism to most people now and it means much more than the Old South and the slavery of the Confederacy, but they want to distance themselves from anything that will give Northerners the idea that we are still racist.

So let me ask you this, why is it a much bigger issue up North than it is down here, and why is anybody even safe flying or wearing it if it's always meant to be such a huge symbol of racism and oppression? Could it be that it's not taken that way by most people down here, and it's only taken that way by Northerners? Northerners who btw don't really have any reason to fly or wear the flag except being Skynerd fans or for a hate group that co-opted it.

Ask yourself that question and answer it please. Why is it even flown or shown without huge repercussions? Sure it happens sometimes but if it were seen down here the way it is up North then those repercussions would happen every single time. Also, you wouldn't have a ton of Southerners who are not racist by any means who defend the right to fly it and who try to explain to Yankees what it means to Southerners nowdays.

Do you think maybe that it really could mean something totally different to people south of the Mason Dixon and since we don't come up there trying to put one in your yards, why are you even worrying about it when most of us see it completely different than you do? If somebody in a Southern mixed neighborhood has a rebel flag flying in their yard and it's not bothering any of their neighbors, black or white, they why is it so damned important to the rest of the country that it should?

Southern pride isn't based on the Old South, it's based on the present South. Most people I know are not proud of the slavery before the War, nor are they proud of how the South was about Civil Rights. It's pride in having our own culture and traditions now, and our particulars that we engage in every day and not something that happened decades and a century ago.

Also, the flag isn't seen by most people I know as being for white Southerners only, it's for all Southerners. As I've said, I know quite a few black people who have things with the flag on it. The kid who lives with us is black and has one hanging on the wall in his room. He brought it from home along with the Crimson Tide one and the Bob Marley one. He's also got a Rush mirror, a Pink Floyd mirror and a Lynerd Skynerd mirror.

I don't buy into any kind of "White Pride" crap because any kind of vague notion of that is ridiculous. If I were to lean toward any ethnic pride it would be Italian. I've got some things with the Italian flag on it and identify with Italian American culture as well, but more of Southern culture. I don't see anything wrong with having a symbol for Southern culture and lifestyle, and with trying to make damn sure that people know that Southern culture and lifestyle don't have anything to do with racism. Sure, there are racists down here but there are racists all over the country. It's just associated more with the South because of the War and because the Southerners were douchebags about Civil Rights. Most people down here have gotten way past that and we have the same amount of racists that everybody else has, but it's the rest of the country that wants to keep that label on us. Just because we like the flag of the Confederacy does not mean we support racism or any of that BS. It was the flag that represented the South and so it seems logical to use it for Southern pride (NOT white pride, Southern pride, two different things). I don't think it's ok to just give up and let the racists have it and use it. I'm willing to fight to be able to fly my flag and to make sure people know that to the rest of us normal Southerners, black and white, it's not about racism, it may be about regionalism but not racism.

Believe whatever you want, but just remember that when you don't believe us when we try and explain something to you that you might as well be a Fundamentalist trying to tell the Pope what the Catholic Church actually teaches, because you heard from everybody in your church what it is.

In my opinion, it is because the vast majority of all Americans just simply don't care about the controversy, if it is, in fact, a controversy. You point out that it isn't highly controversial in your community. Mine, too. It just isn't something people care about, despite probably having a general opinion about it. I believe that it is the professional activists who get their credibility enhanced when they speak out and agitate against certain topics. I know this as a former professional activist. They have a sense that, if they aren't getting public attention, they aren't relevant and they won't sustain their contributors' financial interest. Most everyone who isn't a professional activist won't understand this, and will probably wonder why activists are constantly picking fights about which nobody else cares.

You could leave out the race of the pro-symbol defender, and just say that fans of the symbols think they should be the arbiters of interpretation of the symbol but this is a wish that is unconnected with reality.

If you know that a symbol that means good things to you is interpreted by others as a statement in support of bad things and that belief is deeply ingrained in them, you are not going to be able to claim that they should re-evaluate the symbol from your frame of reference and adopt your frame as more significant than their own.

Given this, it's probably best not to show the symbol that offends others unless you intend to be offensive.

A Buddhist from east Asia might have fond memories of swastikas as a symbol of their faith and might associate that symbol as a sign of infinite, transcendent compassion and have every reason in the world and many centuries of tradition on to back this view.

But if such a person were to open a meditation center across the street from a synagogue and festoon the facade with swastikas, that person would be creating terrible offense and harm.

Everyone is entitled to interpret the stars and bars however they want, but to choose to ignore the reality that it is a symbol of racial oppression for many or tell them that they are wrong because they have a different frame of reference is to be willfully insensitive.

Just because people don't react violently to the flag doesn't mean they aren't offended by it....

Offense is a daily supplement in America. I am offended constantly by a lot of politically charged individuals, groups, opinions, ideas, laws and private corporate actions. But, as I have made clear, I support more differences, more speech, more ideas and more debate, not less. There is no constitutional right to not be offended.

You're absolutely right.

There's also no constitutional right to be immune from social sanctions when you insist on doing things and displaying symbols that many people find offensive and/or silly/feckless.

That's part of free speech too baby!

Here's my suggestion...

As long as the "sanctions" are lawful and legal. The moment they become unlawful and illegal, those sanctions become crimes.

As long as the "sanctions" are lawful and legal. The moment they become unlawful and illegal, those sanctions become crimes.

I think it's an issue in the South. Nascar has a southern following and the state that's doing the grappling over the old stars and bars at the moment is South Carolina so it does seem like a southern issue at the moment. Northern states aren't grappling with it.

Okay, I’ll give you the benefit of a doubt and accept that this is meant to represent ‘the new south’ and not hearken back to its racist past.

However, if that’s true, it’s a piss poor symbol considering all the history attached.
You’d really be better off just giving it to the racists, because clinging to it is not putting you in conflict with the racists. Instead, it’s helping the racists by putting you in conflict with everyone else who isn’t a racist…

You know, there are a lot of things I really love about southern culture too. At an individual level, we can be some really great, caring people. And, a lot of the time we exemplify the best things about Christianity… That’s why, even though I’m a bit skeptical about a lot of the supernatural and narrow-minded stuff, I describe myself as a nominal Christian. I really dig the golden rule and all that Sermon on the Mount stuff.

As a matter of fact, I think the way the victim’s families have reacted to Roof, is a prime example of why Southern culture can be great.

Also, damn, we make some good food! (Says the man with a belly full of sausage gravy and biscuits).

Why don’t we come up with a new symbol? One that isn’t associated with a racist past. One that more closely represents the great things about the South and includes all Southerners.

Here's my suggestion...

Just because people don't react violently to the flag doesn't mean they aren't offended by it.

Jesus H. Christ.

Good, decent, civilized people don't punch people in the face just because they disagree with them.

There are plenty of people who dislike the flag down south. However, most of them aren't going to cause confrontations about it... Especially when the people flying or wearing the flag are apt to see violence as an acceptable way to settle disputes.