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The Nation of Islam could be honestly described as a hate group. Certainly at some points in their history. Why else would they kick out Malcolm X for saying that white people aren't the devil?

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People could not honestly be described as a hate group.

IMHO the SPLC actually does have a pretty good handle on the issue.

The untenable situation is that white people are being forced to give up their culture and racial identity while minorities have there's celebrated and protected. I don't believe in multiculturalism, I think it is just segregation and that the melting pot is part of what made America great. When you move to America you are leaving behind your old country and culture, you should become an American first and assimilate. The fact is that American culture and society will always be dominated by Europeans to a certain degree because Europeans are by far the largest group, there isn't anything wrong with that as Americans are the most open and least racist people in the world. American culture has built the most powerful superpower in history and got us to the moon, immigration should be treated are an honor not an entitlement because I don't care what anybody tells you not every immigrant is a net positive for the country and it is humanitarian immigration policy. If you love your home country and culture more than you love America then don't bother leaving in the first place, don't come here if all you want is entitlements and to wall yourself off.

Paragraph breaks: They're not just for breakfast anymore.

Anyway, how are we being forced to give up our culture?

There are several scandinavian-themed celebrations within a hundred miles of me every year. I don't feel as though my culture is threatened.

Also how can you not believe in multiculturalism AND feel like preserving your specific culture?

People have been saying that "why don't they assimilate like we did" nonsense since the 2nd boat landed at plymouth rock, and it's always been BS.

Are you really trying to grammarnazi me?

Anyways, those ethnic festivals of which I know very well growing up in Milwaukee aren't what I am talking about when I talk about culture but rather how people separate and see themselves as distinct from other peoples. When you analogue the methods and importance placed on preserving minority cultures to "white culture" then it is seen as supremacist and hateful, do you understand where I am coming from when I say it is untenable this way? This is where the Dylann Roofs of the world are created.

Overt legal racism is for the most part over, there are some things that remain that disproportionately effect certain peoples more than others which I don't support of course but the reality is that there isn't much to be fighting for any more except these "culture wars". Equality means equality, you don't get to be equal +1. Either we're the same or we're not, you can't tilt the playing field one way and not expect the other side to resent it. The reality is that most of the racial inequality in this country is a remnant and the oppression that led to it is over and has been for a while now. Since we live in real time and cannot undo the past all we can do is move forward, if we are to be equal now and going forward then the past has to be let go. I

It's almost as hard to read a solid block of text like that as it is to try to parse that guy who posts in the form of beat poetry interspersed with youtube links.

So yeah.



I dunno about that. Someone taught DR to be hateful. DR was also probably easily molded.

I don't personally feel like i place a high importance on preserving minority cultures.

I do place a high importance on preserving their cuisine. But I'm like that. I think the variety of restaurants i can get a good and interesting meal from is the best argument for multiculturalism. Having lemon grass chicken and escargot at the same table, for example. But we still don't have a full-on french-vietnamese restaurant here.

Maybe vietnam is a counter-example. I can't say for sure i know what they were eating before french colonization. The french gave them bread, coffee, charcuterie, and onion soup for starters. And they are killing it with all of those.

Pho is a multicultural soup. The rice noodles are chinese in origin. The broth made from onion and soup bones is very french. The peppers and some of the other spices are from the new world.

But somehow if there are too many white people in the noodle house, the soup isn't very good. In general, if tendon and tripes aren't available for your pho, it's not going to be very good. Not that i like eating tendon or tripes.

"White culture" is hardly monolithic, nor is "hispanic culture".

You've seen me express my disdain for purists in the old traditions of south-eastern united states scotch-irish culture. I also don't feel like i have much in common with kentucky hill people, or a number of other identifiable white subcultures.

A lot of non-hispanic black people in the USA have a shared history in slavery, but your east coast vs. west coast vs. southern vs. flyover black cultures have some major differences. Their shared history does bring them together in some conditions, though.

I think it could be argued that the culture that DR thought he was fighting for is not one that he would find in most of the United States.



You misrepresent the ideal of equality.

We are born with the same rights. We are equal under the law with regard to obligations and liabilities as well. Ostensibly, every eligible adult's vote counts for 1 vote. This is the kind of equality the founders spoke of.

And at no time will this make anyone truly equal to anyone else, nor do i believe that it was ever intended to.

As individuals, none are equal. Many are equal + a lot. Many are equal - a lot. What makes us different, as a nation, is that we try to embrace the ideal that having started out with many negatives should not, as it has in some nations, preclude you from shedding negatives.

Take for example the caste system in India, which insisted that if you are born untouchable you will be untouchable for your whole life, and your children will be untouchable, and you cannot marry or breed with anyone who is not also untouchable.

The caste system is officially illegal now, and has been for some time, but my brother's indian father-in-law told us all about the lower-class boy who lives at the end of the street who will do anything that anyone in the family asks at any time, for nothing.

That's an extreme example, sure, but there are still people in the south of the USA - descendants of indentured servants - who will tell you that they are poor white trash and will never amount to anything.

We are supposed to be better than that. Who your great-great grandparents were isn't supposed to dictate what you can do in your life. It might make it a lot easier or a lot harder, and the wealthiest and most powerful have done a lot to secure their positions, but "equality" here means rights, opportunity, and responsibilities.

Take my ukranian friend who arrived here, by his description, a bare-assed 13 year old with nothing. Today he owns a pretty decent apartment in brooklyn and earns a really good living as an IT guy for a law firm you've heard of.

His relatives back in Lviv? Not doing quite as well.

That's equality.

Does his son go to a school where they speak russian? You betcha.

Am I misunderstanding you as to say that Dylan Roof was justified in his racist reaction, in that non-white cultures are a threat to our culture?
And our white European culture is in no danger of disappearing.

I don't believe my post was hard for you to understand but whatever dude, perhaps I should try the beat poetry and youtube route instead.

Food is something that transverses cultures pretty easily at least it does in America as part of our culture is that we enjoy the foods of other cultures but I think that is probably true everywhere as food is naturally inclusive as opposed to language for example. America would look a lot different without its melting pot ideas, I very much doubt I would be speaking English right now. My grandfather spoke German at home exclusively until he was 5 and this was in the 20s after WWI, if the German immigrants in Wisconsin had their way they would of had all their schools/churches/businesses/etc in German and wouldn't of learned English.

So if Wisconsin was allowed to become totally Germanized as it likely would of without interference, do you think the people there would of felt connected to rest of country or would they hold themselves totally distinct? What do you think would of happened when a disagreement arose? Do you think an even more Germanized Wisconsin would had the same opinion on waging war against Germany as the rest of the country? The political beliefs that many of the German immigrants brought with them to this country were of the radical and revolutionary type, what type of politics would a Germanized Wisconsin have when compared to the rest of the country? It is kind of interesting when you think about it but I think the country as a whole is happier we just drink beer and eat brats instead.

I think we have the same idea of legal equality, my point is that the rest cannot be rectified while being legally equal. You can't make up for lost time, you can't change the past, you can't raise somebody up without pushing someone down or denying someone equally maligned that same opportunity. Society is divided primarily by class not race, issues of class are of much more importance of issues of race in 2015 but we can't even get started with that discussion since we always get bogged down by racial division.

I only asked because you had stated: "this is where the Dylan Roofs of the world are created."

You are misinterpreting the point I was making, it is basically that you can't be separate but equal. When you apply the same methods and ideology of those that wish to preserve minority culture to white people, it would be seen as racist and I would probably agree. Think about all the racist organizations that analogue their name with civil rights and minority groups, its not just them thumbing their nose but a genuine belief that it does analogue. It doesn't matter what we think, it doesn't matter if they are factually wrong, that is what these people believe.

I want a monoculture, the melting pot where we are all Americans first and foremost. Skin color should not divide us and as long as we distinguish ourselves by race there will be racism.

While I'm not entirely in agreement with you, I apologize for the misunderstanding, as I had just awakened from a long sleep after dinner upon reading your post, and I was still a bit fuzzy headed.
By the way, Beat poetry was pretty cool!

I still don't see where "white people", as a group, have a common culture.

I can't have pride in something I haven't done. My "race", for example. I never understood any form of external pride for this reason.

I admire feats, though; both the good and bad. The German V-2 rocket or US (various genealogy there) Fat Man/Little Boy exemplifies this perfectly.

You are seeing the rest of the world from the outside looking in, even tho we probably differ from each in numerous ways we also obviously we share a lot in common culture relative to a goat herder from Afghanistan for example. Since we share so much it is easy to see the differences among us, there are subcultures and subcultures of subcultures but that's true in every culture. That wasn't the point of my post tho, I'm not lamenting the fate of "white culture" but rather advocating a policy of assimilation and integration into one monoculture where we don't distinguish ourselves by skin color. Most white Americans have left behind most their distinct European culture and identities, most identify simply as white or American.

Teddy Roosevelt's thoughts on "hyphenated Americans"

Now I want to add everything they did to try to achieve the melting pt wasn't right by any stretch and I don't think it is necessary either. A few laws and policies should be changed but for the most part just being a welcoming open people should be enough since there are plenty of people that actually want to come this country and be apart of our culture.

This song by Lupe Fiasco came on as I was typing this that I thought was relevant, Lupe has an admirable vision.



Still working on the beat poetry

The future of America is that a lot places you will go, you won't see a white person.

The "culture change" is that the white people are gone from these areas.

Last edited by LoveNotHate on 09 Jul 2015, 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Teddy Roosevelt was wrong.

Is not a puerto-rican-american also an american?

Aren't they american first 364 days of the year, and puerto rican first on just one?

Who are you to say they shouldn't be?