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Kraichgauer
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06 Jul 2015, 4:51 pm

Janissy wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Number three: What you friend from India doesn't seem to grasp is that being an American in not incumbent on white skin, as we are proud of our mutt-dom; that is, we are proud that Americans are from everywhere in the world. So what if America stops being a majority white country? We're all Americans, regardless of what color our outsides are.


:cheers:

(I wanted to salute this bit but the saluting smiley has gone missing, even in the 'more smilies' section.)

That's the true American spirit. We are a mish mash of immigrants, thus all the ethnic heritage celebrations. Many people like Tiger Woods for his golf skills but I like him for coining the term 'Cablinasian'. It pays tribute to mutt-dom. 'American' isn't a skin color. It's a set of shared national values.

The absolute strongest value that seems to run through the U.S from the very beginning and seems almost unique in the world is that this is the country where you write your own script. This country was founded on cutting ties with the past and we've made creating your own future, regardless of your past, the American Dream. That's what the American Dream really is. It isn't a particular lifestyle, even though it frequently gets described that way. It's the concept that the future is what you make it. That (to me) is the 'pursuit of happiness' part of 'life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness' in the Declaration of Independence.


Thank you! 8)


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06 Jul 2015, 4:56 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Janissy wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
White Pride is seen as divisionary. So how does this apply to all the other forms of pride? Is it only White Pride that is divisionary while all the others aren't? Whenever someone talks about White Pride or promotes this, they get called racist. It's thought of as racist ideology. So how do you reconcile this? And why is it we cannot be proud of our humanity. Humanism and Humanity as a collective is what gets shamed the most at the moment. We focus on how we are different and then say humanism is an unreliable standard because it's about being a human and focuses on what we have in common.

I am going to take the initiative and say I am proud to be human.

The White Pride movement sets itself in opposition (sometimes literally violent opposition) to other races. But when white people celebrate pride in specific white cultures, rather than generic "white", there is no problem. St. Patrick's Day parades, Greek Festival, an Italian flag as a bumper sticker etc. It's all good because none of it is specifically anti-other-race.

Black people would do the same thing if slavery hadn't lumped them all together. More recent black immigrants do just that with Caribbean Festival and such. The problem isn't white people celebrating heritage. There is probably a Polish/Irish/Italian/Hungarian/Swedish etc. festival that happening soon within the state lines of whatever U.S, state you happen to be in. But none of those heritage celebrations is specifically anti-non-white the way White Pride is. That's why White Pride is divisive but Irish (or whichever) pride is not.

What of white people who have no idea of their ethic background or who don't care and identify just as American? Then hit all the "white" festivals and/or go to a 4th of July celebration (assume they did on Saturday). But White Pride specified as such without breaking it down by pre-American heritage comes with a lot of violent baggage.

How would Black Pride be similarly balkanized? After all, if White Pride shouldn't exist because its reference to a singular race rather than its component national constituencies, shouldn't the same, equal, balkanization of Black Pride's reference to a singular race be performed, thereby turning it into South African Pride or Moroccan Pride, as well?


Dont understand why you're asking Blacks to "Balkanize", but if you're going to tell them what to do at least get your analogies right.

The African analog to "Irish pride", or "Latvian pride", would not be "South African pride".

It would be "Xhosa pride", or "Ashanti pride", or "Hausa pride" because those are actual ethnic groups in Africa.

Also: the American slave trade did not draw upon either the Arab north of Africa, nor the extreme southern cape of Africa. So very few American Blacks have ancestry from either Morocco or from what is now South Africa either. The American slave trade drew mostly upon sub saharan west africa, the Congo, Angola, and Mozambique.



AspieUtah
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06 Jul 2015, 5:45 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Janissy wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
White Pride is seen as divisionary. So how does this apply to all the other forms of pride? Is it only White Pride that is divisionary while all the others aren't? Whenever someone talks about White Pride or promotes this, they get called racist. It's thought of as racist ideology. So how do you reconcile this? And why is it we cannot be proud of our humanity. Humanism and Humanity as a collective is what gets shamed the most at the moment. We focus on how we are different and then say humanism is an unreliable standard because it's about being a human and focuses on what we have in common.

I am going to take the initiative and say I am proud to be human.

The White Pride movement sets itself in opposition (sometimes literally violent opposition) to other races. But when white people celebrate pride in specific white cultures, rather than generic "white", there is no problem. St. Patrick's Day parades, Greek Festival, an Italian flag as a bumper sticker etc. It's all good because none of it is specifically anti-other-race.

Black people would do the same thing if slavery hadn't lumped them all together. More recent black immigrants do just that with Caribbean Festival and such. The problem isn't white people celebrating heritage. There is probably a Polish/Irish/Italian/Hungarian/Swedish etc. festival that happening soon within the state lines of whatever U.S, state you happen to be in. But none of those heritage celebrations is specifically anti-non-white the way White Pride is. That's why White Pride is divisive but Irish (or whichever) pride is not.

What of white people who have no idea of their ethic background or who don't care and identify just as American? Then hit all the "white" festivals and/or go to a 4th of July celebration (assume they did on Saturday). But White Pride specified as such without breaking it down by pre-American heritage comes with a lot of violent baggage.

How would Black Pride be similarly balkanized? After all, if White Pride shouldn't exist because its reference to a singular race rather than its component national constituencies, shouldn't the same, equal, balkanization of Black Pride's reference to a singular race be performed, thereby turning it into South African Pride or Moroccan Pride, as well?

Dont understand why you're asking Blacks to "Balkanize"....

I didn't.


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LoveNotHate
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07 Jul 2015, 7:04 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
So what if America stops being a majority white country? We're all Americans, regardless of what color our outsides are.


Off of the top of my head ....

1. It's not about patriotism. People generally want to "live among their own kind". That is why we have "white flight" and "black flight". This is how cities become 90%+ of one race.

2. People not knowing English is such a huge problem that American companies cater to Spanish speakers when you call them. ("Press '1' for English).

3. When white people turn on their tv or watch movies, they want to see people like them. That is why tv shows and movies mostly have white people.

4. They expect "white history" in the classroom, not lecture that the American Indian people were actually good and somehow white people are evil because they killed them.

" Teachers of a controversial Mexican-American studies program outlawed by the Arizona legislature are pressing to spread similar programs across the country."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/1 ... 58770.html

Hey, I thought we were all Americans here? Why are Americans wanting the history of Mexico taught in school curriculum.

5. Lastly, and too my original point, I think people laugh because it seems on the surface to be pathetic to let others overrun your country. It would never happen in other countries, so to them it seems odd.

However, all this being said, whites are not actually becoming a minority. They are only becoming a minority if you don't count the white people of Hispanic origin as white. The political people group white Hispanics (people from Spain included) as non-white.



Last edited by LoveNotHate on 07 Jul 2015, 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

naturalplastic
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07 Jul 2015, 7:09 am

AspieUtah wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Janissy wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
White Pride is seen as divisionary. So how does this apply to all the other forms of pride? Is it only White Pride that is divisionary while all the others aren't? Whenever someone talks about White Pride or promotes this, they get called racist. It's thought of as racist ideology. So how do you reconcile this? And why is it we cannot be proud of our humanity. Humanism and Humanity as a collective is what gets shamed the most at the moment. We focus on how we are different and then say humanism is an unreliable standard because it's about being a human and focuses on what we have in common.

I am going to take the initiative and say I am proud to be human.

The White Pride movement sets itself in opposition (sometimes literally violent opposition) to other races. But when white people celebrate pride in specific white cultures, rather than generic "white", there is no problem. St. Patrick's Day parades, Greek Festival, an Italian flag as a bumper sticker etc. It's all good because none of it is specifically anti-other-race.

Black people would do the same thing if slavery hadn't lumped them all together. More recent black immigrants do just that with Caribbean Festival and such. The problem isn't white people celebrating heritage. There is probably a Polish/Irish/Italian/Hungarian/Swedish etc. festival that happening soon within the state lines of whatever U.S, state you happen to be in. But none of those heritage celebrations is specifically anti-non-white the way White Pride is. That's why White Pride is divisive but Irish (or whichever) pride is not.

What of white people who have no idea of their ethic background or who don't care and identify just as American? Then hit all the "white" festivals and/or go to a 4th of July celebration (assume they did on Saturday). But White Pride specified as such without breaking it down by pre-American heritage comes with a lot of violent baggage.

How would Black Pride be similarly balkanized? After all, if White Pride shouldn't exist because its reference to a singular race rather than its component national constituencies, shouldn't the same, equal, balkanization of Black Pride's reference to a singular race be performed, thereby turning it into South African Pride or Moroccan Pride, as well?

Dont understand why you're asking Blacks to "Balkanize"....

I didn't.


Exactly!

You failed to make ANY deciferable point.



AspieUtah
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07 Jul 2015, 8:42 am

naturalplastic wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Janissy wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
White Pride is seen as divisionary. So how does this apply to all the other forms of pride? Is it only White Pride that is divisionary while all the others aren't? Whenever someone talks about White Pride or promotes this, they get called racist. It's thought of as racist ideology. So how do you reconcile this? And why is it we cannot be proud of our humanity. Humanism and Humanity as a collective is what gets shamed the most at the moment. We focus on how we are different and then say humanism is an unreliable standard because it's about being a human and focuses on what we have in common.

I am going to take the initiative and say I am proud to be human.

The White Pride movement sets itself in opposition (sometimes literally violent opposition) to other races. But when white people celebrate pride in specific white cultures, rather than generic "white", there is no problem. St. Patrick's Day parades, Greek Festival, an Italian flag as a bumper sticker etc. It's all good because none of it is specifically anti-other-race.

Black people would do the same thing if slavery hadn't lumped them all together. More recent black immigrants do just that with Caribbean Festival and such. The problem isn't white people celebrating heritage. There is probably a Polish/Irish/Italian/Hungarian/Swedish etc. festival that happening soon within the state lines of whatever U.S, state you happen to be in. But none of those heritage celebrations is specifically anti-non-white the way White Pride is. That's why White Pride is divisive but Irish (or whichever) pride is not.

What of white people who have no idea of their ethic background or who don't care and identify just as American? Then hit all the "white" festivals and/or go to a 4th of July celebration (assume they did on Saturday). But White Pride specified as such without breaking it down by pre-American heritage comes with a lot of violent baggage.

How would Black Pride be similarly balkanized? After all, if White Pride shouldn't exist because its reference to a singular race rather than its component national constituencies, shouldn't the same, equal, balkanization of Black Pride's reference to a singular race be performed, thereby turning it into South African Pride or Moroccan Pride, as well?

Dont understand why you're asking Blacks to "Balkanize"....

I didn't.

Exactly!

You failed to make ANY deciferable point.

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07 Jul 2015, 10:24 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
So what if America stops being a majority white country? We're all Americans, regardless of what color our outsides are.


Off of the top of my head ....

1. It's not about patriotism. People generally want to "live among their own kind". That is why we have "white flight" and "black flight". This is how cities become 90%+ of one race.

2. People not knowing English is such a huge problem that American companies cater to Spanish speakers when you call them. ("Press '1' for English).

3. When white people turn on their tv or watch movies, they want to see people like them. That is why tv shows and movies mostly have white people.

4. They expect "white history" in the classroom, not lecture that the American Indian people were actually good and somehow white people are evil because they killed them.

" Teachers of a controversial Mexican-American studies program outlawed by the Arizona legislature are pressing to spread similar programs across the country."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/1 ... 58770.html

Hey, I thought we were all Americans here? Why are Americans wanting the history of Mexico taught in school curriculum.

5. Lastly, and too my original point, I think people laugh because it seems on the surface to be pathetic to let others overrun your country. It would never happen in other countries, so to them it seems odd.

However, all this being said, whites are not actually becoming a minority. They are only becoming a minority if you don't count the white people of Hispanic origin as white. The political people group white Hispanics (people from Spain included) as non-white.


In response-

1) That's tribalism. White flight is hardly a good thing. We Americans need to learn to walk the talk, and stop being afraid of the perceived "other."
2) As a matter of fact, I would prefer that all Americans speak English. But that being said, modern Latino Americans and immigrants are hardly the first group not to speak English as their first language. In the age of immigration during the 19th and early 20th centuries, there was a cacophony of different languages spoken in America, sometimes by people who lived their whole lives without mastering English. But guess what - - their descendants all became English speakers. This hysteria that Spanish is going to be the end of our country is nothing but natavist nonsense.
3) I have three words in answer to that: The Cosby Show. Long before Bill Cosby self-destructed with his rape scandals, his show had been the number one hit with all Americans, regardless of color.
4) History shouldn't be about making one side feel good, as opposed to the other; rather it should be only about the facts. And as far as the controversy in Arizona is concerned - - if it was just a matter of teaching the history of Mexico, as opposed to that of the USA, I'd agree. But it's a known fact that the people bitching about classes about Latino Americans are known natavists and racists, and are hardly to be trusted.
5) Again, we are unlike any other country, in that our national identity is not based on a tribe or religion, but on a set of ideals. And those ideals must include everyone. It's again a matter of Americans willing to walk the talk about America being about tolerance, equality, and pluralism.


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08 Jul 2015, 4:14 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Saying "White pride is now being scrutinized" is ridiculous. 'White pride' was always considered bogus.
The phrase "White pride" was rarely ever uttered by anyone outside of the KKK, and was ALWAYS regarded as a codeword for racism, and was never taken seriously by any American of any skin color outside of the KKK.
Whites are both the majority of country, and its ruling group, so it makes no sense to make a cause out of "White pride" as distinct from say: general purpose "American pride". Its the marginalized groups that need extra doses of pride. The ruling mainstream group is already overdosing on pride.
Imagine if someone proposed a "neurotypical pride day". Even neurotypicals would laugh ( if they even knew what NT meant- the term isnt even used much outside of autism spectrum websites). But an 'autism pride day' would seem like a respectable cause.

GoonSquad wrote:
kamiyu910 wrote:
I've gotten serious backlash for posting this line of thought on Facebook (lost like 20+ "friends")
But I agree. It only serves to divide. If one can't do something, then why should others be able to? If one can, why not others? Isn't this sort of segregation what got us here in the first place?
People don't want equality, they just want the power to shift. They want revenge/vengeance, they want to make those who they think cause suffering to suffer. And if someone is in any sort of societal power position, they are the enemy, even if they really aren't in any position of power.

And me wanting everyone to be treated equally is racist, homophobic, and sexist.

No. The problem here is that you are blind to the fact that people aren't being treated equally. The reason white pride is seen as objectionable by many is because society is dominated by whites, particularly rich, white, males.
By default, everyday is white pride day.


People who say pride is ok for this or that group but not for Whites are just anti-White. All their talk about 'oppressed groups' is just window-dressing.

Of course, there is a difference between those who know they're talking BS and those dupes who are just repeating what they've heard on the TV or in their sociology classes. It's not always easy to tell who is who.



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08 Jul 2015, 4:17 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Black and gay pride is all about people who in the past have been pressed into second class citizenship, if not out and out pariahs, and now simply want to express how they are no longer going to take a back seat in the eyes of society, or the eyes of the law. Whereas white pride is a reactionary movement by racist whites, who imagine themselves as victims now that they can no longer sh*t on other groups with impunity.


On the other hand, anti-Whitism is a reactionary movement attractive to anti-White whiteskins like you who imagine that sh*tting on other Whites is going to win them brownie points.

Seriously, almost every post you make on this forum is just some variant on "look at me everybody, I may be white, but I really care about oppressed groups, so I'm not like those bad whites over there!"

I suppose this goes hand in hand with being a Christian doesn't it? Christians like to imagine that they're so superior to those 'heathens over there' because they believe in some BS narrative and care so, so much about all the oppressed people in the world.



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08 Jul 2015, 4:35 pm

Rollo wrote:
People who say pride is ok for this or that group but not for Whites are just anti-White....

It is the very definition of discrimination and racism.


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08 Jul 2015, 4:54 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Rollo wrote:
People who say pride is ok for this or that group but not for Whites are just anti-White....

It is the very definition of discrimination and racism.


People say white pride is not ok usually because they associate that phrase with groups like the KKK and the aryan nation who claim white pride in the guise of hatred toward other groups.



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08 Jul 2015, 5:06 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Rollo wrote:
People who say pride is ok for this or that group but not for Whites are just anti-White....

It is the very definition of discrimination and racism.

People say white pride is not ok usually because they associate that phrase with groups like the KKK and the aryan nation who claim white pride in the guise of hatred toward other groups.

Yes, they do. But, the same could be (and often is) said about other pride movements.


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08 Jul 2015, 7:08 pm

Rollo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Black and gay pride is all about people who in the past have been pressed into second class citizenship, if not out and out pariahs, and now simply want to express how they are no longer going to take a back seat in the eyes of society, or the eyes of the law. Whereas white pride is a reactionary movement by racist whites, who imagine themselves as victims now that they can no longer sh*t on other groups with impunity.


On the other hand, anti-Whitism is a reactionary movement attractive to anti-White whiteskins like you who imagine that sh*tting on other Whites is going to win them brownie points.

Seriously, almost every post you make on this forum is just some variant on "look at me everybody, I may be white, but I really care about oppressed groups, so I'm not like those bad whites over there!"

I suppose this goes hand in hand with being a Christian doesn't it? Christians like to imagine that they're so superior to those 'heathens over there' because they believe in some BS narrative and care so, so much about all the oppressed people in the world.


Well, let's see... I wrote a post for the "What movies have you seen recently" thread, in which I wrote about the movie Maggie, which I had just seen on DVD. I'm pretty certain I didn't write anything about race. :P
But seriously, there's nothing to ashamed of being anti-racist. There's nothing to be ashamed of speaking out against bigotry, especially when it's coming from members of my own ethnic group.
And for the record, there's a huge difference between feeling pride in your ethnic roots, which is largely German in my case, and the white pride movement, which was formed as a reaction against the extension of civil rights to non-Caucasians.


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08 Jul 2015, 8:34 pm

Rollo wrote:
I suppose this goes hand in hand with being a Christian doesn't it? Christians like to imagine that they're so superior to those 'heathens over there' because they believe in some BS narrative and care so, so much about all the oppressed people in the world.

What? I am a Christian and I don't feel superior to anyone, infact I often feel inferior to most people (not depending on my Christianity). These people you are talking about are called bullies, and are present in every group be it Christians, Atheists, Muslims or whatever and they will pick on you because you are a Christian, an Atheist, a Muslim or whatever. It's very frustrating to be picked on all the time for no reason...



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08 Jul 2015, 8:45 pm

Rollo wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Black and gay pride is all about people who in the past have been pressed into second class citizenship, if not out and out pariahs, and now simply want to express how they are no longer going to take a back seat in the eyes of society, or the eyes of the law. Whereas white pride is a reactionary movement by racist whites, who imagine themselves as victims now that they can no longer sh*t on other groups with impunity.


On the other hand, anti-Whitism is a reactionary movement attractive to anti-White whiteskins like you who imagine that sh*tting on other Whites is going to win them brownie points.

Seriously, almost every post you make on this forum is just some variant on "look at me everybody, I may be white, but I really care about oppressed groups, so I'm not like those bad whites over there!"

I suppose this goes hand in hand with being a Christian doesn't it? Christians like to imagine that they're so superior to those 'heathens over there' because they believe in some BS narrative and care so, so much about all the oppressed people in the world.


It sounds like you're kafkatrapping, and stereotyping in a rather bad way. Reminds me of the SJWs on Tumblr. No white christian male can do anything right in their eyes. If they try to be anti-racist, they're trying to say, as you put it, "look at me." But if they stay quiet, they're racist. *shrug*


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08 Jul 2015, 11:02 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
Rollo wrote:
People who say pride is ok for this or that group but not for Whites are just anti-White....

It is the very definition of discrimination and racism.

People say white pride is not ok usually because they associate that phrase with groups like the KKK and the aryan nation who claim white pride in the guise of hatred toward other groups.

Yes, they do. But, the same could be (and often is) said about other pride movements.


The Nation of Islam could be honestly described as a hate group. Certainly at some points in their history. Why else would they kick out Malcolm X for saying that white people aren't the devil?

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People could not honestly be described as a hate group.

IMHO the SPLC actually does have a pretty good handle on the issue.