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Mootoo
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22 Jul 2015, 8:03 am

Uh, I believe this all depends on one's perception of the current situation... if only stupid UKIP voters would just change their prejudiced opinion on immigrants, then perhaps we could have a more equitable society... people didn't necessarily prefer the right as much as they held prejudice, that somehow didn't affect Tory voters who still remained loyal.



Spiderpig
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22 Jul 2015, 8:12 pm

There's no undermining the right, because the right, and the right only, is right. What is left can't be right. Everybody knows it.


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Mootoo
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23 Jul 2015, 4:20 am

That didn't exactly happen in WWII, which was practically caused by the (extreme) right. Governments in Europe are already worried that Greece might turn to Golden Dawn if left to its own devices, although people are still going to protest against austerity (which is also happening in the UK). Anything extreme is never healthy, and I suspect the Tories are very much verging thereabouts.

The irony and stupidity after WWII by the US is that it became terrified of communism, which was practically an antidote to Hitler (he claimed his party was socialist, but was really fascist - Tories are even claiming they're the Workers' Party, hah). Communism, done correctly, isn't really extreme per se, although Stalin, needless to say, did not do such a thing, and was as authentic as the many dictatorial modern countries with 'democratic' in their title.



Mootoo
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23 Jul 2015, 7:24 am

Ugh, this political debate about the leadership of Labour is disgusting. IF the people decide to want to go to the left *then they do*. Blair was also a hypocritical fascist and if he thinks anyone will listen to his lying bullshit after Iraq he's seriously delusional.

The same with any other commentators who think that history should be repeated. If enough people vote for Corbyn, especially with one-member-one-vote (who everyone suddenly seems scared of) then they do. That's democracy, nor anyone else who think that capitalists should be the only ones who embezzle all the money from everyone and million-pound mansions get tax cuts while the poorest get tax credits off them. F**K THIS RIGHT-WING FUCKERY!



The_Walrus
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23 Jul 2015, 10:53 am

Mootoo wrote:

By nepotism I was simply referring to how (practically all the ministers) seem to be a close-knit group who, even if they haven't gone to Eton, are simply close friends to Cameron. And, if the recent appointment of Johnson isn't nepotism I don't know what is...
Assuming you're talking about Boris Johnson, he's already been an MP and was appointed a Shadow Minister by Michael Howard, so I don't think his return to the Commons is evidence of nepotism.

I don't think the ministers are any more close knit than any group of collegues. Cameron and Osborne are genuinely friends, but Cameron has previously demoted most of the cabinet: May, Gove, and Hunt aren't people he's close with.



Mootoo
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23 Jul 2015, 2:34 pm

I doubt that he doesn't ardently love them, though, when he re-appointed May after her statistical failure as a Home Secretary (as was pointed out by an MP recently), and with Hunt? Remember before his casual stint as Health Secretary, everyone called for his resignation? Oh, but instead his underling brought the brunt. No, it's not nepotism at all... regardless of who it is there's probably none who isn't rich and likely has the same kind of connections.

Not to mention all the 'dinners' they have with whoever can pay £50,000. If that's not overtly corrupt what is? Oh, sure, but we can get rid of that if we get rid of FOI.

And, remember the Cambridge Mafia? Instead we get Oxford here... it's not exactly subtle, is it?



Mootoo
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27 Jul 2015, 7:37 am

Hm, I just learned that Michael Foot opposed the EU, which is what created the SDP... thus, if Corbyn doesn't, what risks a similar electoral outcome?



DeepHour
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27 Jul 2015, 8:02 am

It's not obvious, to me at any rate, what you're getting at here, Mootoo.

My recollection of the 'birth' of the SDP was that it came about as a result of dissatisfaction amongst a small group of influential Centre-Right Labour MPs with the overall Leftish disposition of the Party in the early 1980s. Their position on Europe was undoubtedly a factor, but the election of Foot as leader, the near-election of Benn as Deputy Leader, the influence of the Trade Union block vote and Trotskyist 'entryism' (which came to a head at the notorious 1985 Labour Conference) were equally significant.



0_equals_true
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27 Jul 2015, 12:50 pm

Mootoo wrote:
Hm, I just learned that Michael Foot opposed the EU, which is what created the SDP... thus, if Corbyn doesn't, what risks a similar electoral outcome?


Labour where far more Eruo-sceptic than the Conservative were in this era.

SDP was formed because the radical left of the Labour party caused a rift between the social democrats and they didn't want o go back to the 70s.


Up until the early 80s there was actually an extremist Trotskyist facton in the Labour Party called "Militant"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militant_ ... t_group%29



Mootoo
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29 Jul 2015, 6:04 am