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pawelk1986
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22 Jul 2015, 4:15 pm

I do not know if it's a good forum section.

I am an adult, I am 29 years, I have pyatnie if you happen to abuse the trust of the parents, or any other person who holds power over you, not only parents, but bosses, managers, directors and so on.

By that I mean not mere scam or something illegal but just not ethical.


My friend, indeed very talented, once had a problem with very overprotective mom, she would not let him go to summer camp, besides organized almost for free by the school, his mother simply was afraid that something happened to him. He told me how arranged this situation, here in Poland, schools are terribly bureaucratic, parents have to sign a lot of documents. This is my friend brought home a permission for a school trip, he knew that his mother did not sign, he hid it together permit and other documents from school, permission hid at the bottom of the heap of documents. He knew that probably caused his mother will not read all the papers and sign them All in one go. Well, to him he succeeded, and then his mom was silly to withdraw and let him go :D

I had a similar situation also the Summer Camp, only that organized by the Polish Ministry of Health, for children and teens with autism, epilepsy, neurosis or ADHD, it was therapeutic camp free of charges

There were some rules, namely as a kid very well behaved able to watch television very late into the night, up until midnight and soetime even longer, and those who behaved even better, could they leave the camp on their, but they had to go back to 19:00 because then we had dinner.

I behaved very well, but I did not get a pass, even though I had all the points for good behavior. Mrs. doctor, she was psychiatrist, did not agree because, although the best out of all the children behaved.
Doctor, did not give my premission to leave camp on my own because I was suffering from autism, I felt a little humiliated because when I was 15 years old and younger kids got me a pass and I did not :(

Some children joked about me. One friend from the camp said that the Doctor is going to scientific conferences that her deputy temporarily take over her duties, and she comes back in a few days. He told me to ask the doctor for a pass, I told that doctor, you forgot to issue pass for me :D

I did that her deputy signed it right a way, not even feeling my deception.

I was proud of himself, annoyed me from me that some younger kids with ADHD have more privileges from me.

But then I started to feel remorse that so deceived that doctor when the doctor returned from the conference, I told her what I had done, she was slightly angry at me, but she did not take away my pass, said that not wanting to give it to me because she was afraid of me I'd may be careless and may hit by a car.

The doctor said that it was reported that itself shows that I'm a man of good moral bone, and deserves a pass like nobody else.



Andreger
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23 Jul 2015, 4:34 am

Very interesting story, Pawel!

I also had numerous times used mistakes of parents (in childhood) and some higher officials later. Or even brought them to making a mistake sometimes. Kinda manipulation but it seems our society appreciates manipulations and undercover actions rather than blunt honesty and straightforwardness.

So I believe it's okay as the organic part of social relations.



pawelk1986
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23 Jul 2015, 7:25 am

Andreger wrote:
Very interesting story, Pawel!

I also had numerous times used mistakes of parents (in childhood) and some higher officials later. Or even brought them to making a mistake sometimes. Kinda manipulation but it seems our society appreciates manipulations and undercover actions rather than blunt honesty and straightforwardness.

So I believe it's okay as the organic part of social relations.


Maybe, but somehow it does not comfort me :(



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23 Jul 2015, 8:03 am

pawelk1986 wrote:
Maybe, but somehow it does not comfort me :(


So as me,and many other people who are not NT. But I don't have real answers. Some people try not to lie and not to use others' mistakes but they often can't effectively get round sharp corners in interpersonal relations. Though you my try :-)

Offtopic: I see now Mexican advertising for Coca-Cola on Wrongplanet despite I'm not even close to there and never googled anything related to Mexico from this PC.



maglevsky
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23 Jul 2015, 2:36 pm

Nice story!
The thing about the "good moral bone" seems exactly true to me, if I was in that doctor's situation I might well have said something very similar - and left you with the pass as she did.


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pawelk1986
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25 Jul 2015, 2:07 pm

maglevsky wrote:
Nice story!
The thing about the "good moral bone" seems exactly true to me, if I was in that doctor's situation I might well have said something very similar - and left you with the pass as she did.



She then told me she did not want to do something happened to me. because kids with asperger are sometimes behave carelessly. She asked me then why I did it, I told her truthfully that I did not like that the younger kids have more privileges from me. The doctor said that unfortunately it is sometimes in life that other people are sometimes more privileges than we are, but that's no reason to behave dishonestly.
She also said that she liked that I myself volunteered, also he said that this bodes well for the Polish people that our nation is not at the forefront of ethical behavior, and well that I am honest :-)



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29 Jul 2015, 2:21 pm

One of the things that can happen when you have autism is that rigid thought patterns make it difficult to tell the degrees of something. The world is not binary; there are degrees of right and wrong and choices fall into categories like, for example, best, better, good, fine, OK, not good, bad, worse, worst.

The general expectation is that most people keep their behavior in OK and above, but that most people are going to dip down into "not good" occasionally. I think this is what you did and what your teacher is trying to express.

I think, also, she's making the point that you need to consider the reasons behind the rules - and to make sure that you get clarification if they don't seem fair to you, or to clearly state your case as to why you think they are unfair.

For the record, I don't like the "sometimes things just aren't fair" response she gave you; if she was more specific it probably would have felt better, right? What she may have meant (I don't know either of you, so I'm just guessing) is that even though some of the kids are younger, they may have skills that you still need to develop; very often privileges are awarded based on what you are able to handle. You might want to ask what skills you need to work on in order to get the same privileges the other kids have.



pawelk1986
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30 Jul 2015, 3:46 am

momsparky wrote:
One of the things that can happen when you have autism is that rigid thought patterns make it difficult to tell the degrees of something. The world is not binary; there are degrees of right and wrong and choices fall into categories like, for example, best, better, good, fine, OK, not good, bad, worse, worst.

The general expectation is that most people keep their behavior in OK and above, but that most people are going to dip down into "not good" occasionally. I think this is what you did and what your teacher is trying to express.

I think, also, she's making the point that you need to consider the reasons behind the rules - and to make sure that you get clarification if they don't seem fair to you, or to clearly state your case as to why you think they are unfair.

For the record, I don't like the "sometimes things just aren't fair" response she gave you; if she was more specific it probably would have felt better, right? What she may have meant (I don't know either of you, so I'm just guessing) is that even though some of the kids are younger, they may have skills that you still need to develop; very often privileges are awarded based on what you are able to handle. You might want to ask what skills you need to work on in order to get the same privileges the other kids have.



She was not a teacher but a doctor very good BTW. Run the camp, I have used this occasion, when she went to scientific conferences, and camp led her deputy, also a doctor. I used his ignorance, but then bad about it I felt.
But when the doctor came back a week later, I myself told her about it, she said it was good that I told her, she told me that children and teenagers with autism or Asperger are sometimes very careless. But she sees that I am at least truthful, for not draw any consequences, and I can keep my pass. That i confessed to her was prove that i'm very mature, but she still feel little bit uncomfortable that something may happen to me.
But she's wanting to know the motives of my behavior, I told her that I did not like that the younger kids have more privileges.
The doctor gave her monologue, she said that in that case my behavior was dictated by envy, and it is not good that a lot of bad things in history was dictated by envy.



pawelk1986
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07 Oct 2015, 3:55 am

momsparky wrote:
You might want to ask what skills you need to work on in order to get the same privileges the other kids have.



Unfortunately, I'm envious when I see that someone has more privileges than he or she does not deserve, try to take them away, even by deceit, but then I have a moral hangover :(