The KKK used the American Flag, originally..

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Misslizard
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24 Jul 2015, 11:03 pm

/\ :D


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blauSamstag
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24 Jul 2015, 11:41 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can say that about the flag the US currently uses but the Confederate flag is a bit more complicated since it was associated with antebellum south when it was allowed to keep people as slaves. I would compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi one. It has the same sort of history. Some people hate the Nazi flag, think it stands for war, oppression and death while a few out there believe it represents Germany when it was trying to survive, fight communism and regain losses.


Fight communism? You believe that bullshit?

The nazis were fighting communism when they invaded poland in search of Lebensraum? When their stated policy was to eradicate the inferior races to make more room for aryans?

Maybe this is a good object lesson.

The nazis, like the confederates before them, were wrong. They were factually, objectively wrong. And their apologists are also wrong.

So yes. Confederate battle flag waving, "slavery was just a side issue" claiming confederate apologists are exactly, 100% like neo-nazis. Who also wave the confederate flag, since the swastika has actually been banned in most european nations.

It's not a matter of opinion, they are just wrong.

The nazis did not fight communism. They fought russians. There's a difference.



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25 Jul 2015, 12:17 am

Do you have any sources for this information? I mean if they did indeed use the current U.S flag as a symbol of their organization that ought to be investigated. However I do not agree with the notion that the confederate flag should be flown above gov't buildings just to avoid offending neo nazis and kkk shitheads who seem to be the most offended by its removal from a government building.


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Sweetleaf
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25 Jul 2015, 12:20 am

blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can say that about the flag the US currently uses but the Confederate flag is a bit more complicated since it was associated with antebellum south when it was allowed to keep people as slaves. I would compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi one. It has the same sort of history. Some people hate the Nazi flag, think it stands for war, oppression and death while a few out there believe it represents Germany when it was trying to survive, fight communism and regain losses.


Fight communism? You believe that bullshit?

The nazis were fighting communism when they invaded poland in search of Lebensraum? When their stated policy was to eradicate the inferior races to make more room for aryans?

Maybe this is a good object lesson.

The nazis, like the confederates before them, were wrong. They were factually, objectively wrong. And their apologists are also wrong.

So yes. Confederate battle flag waving, "slavery was just a side issue" claiming confederate apologists are exactly, 100% like neo-nazis. Who also wave the confederate flag, since the swastika has actually been banned in most european nations.

It's not a matter of opinion, they are just wrong.

The nazis did not fight communism. They fought russians. There's a difference.


And the russians kicked their ass...now if only the U.S would admit that and quit trying to downplay the russian influence of victory in WW2 russia and the U.S could be allies, but instead we still have this cold war s**t going on.


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blauSamstag
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25 Jul 2015, 12:24 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can say that about the flag the US currently uses but the Confederate flag is a bit more complicated since it was associated with antebellum south when it was allowed to keep people as slaves. I would compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi one. It has the same sort of history. Some people hate the Nazi flag, think it stands for war, oppression and death while a few out there believe it represents Germany when it was trying to survive, fight communism and regain losses.


Fight communism? You believe that bullshit?

The nazis were fighting communism when they invaded poland in search of Lebensraum? When their stated policy was to eradicate the inferior races to make more room for aryans?

Maybe this is a good object lesson.

The nazis, like the confederates before them, were wrong. They were factually, objectively wrong. And their apologists are also wrong.

So yes. Confederate battle flag waving, "slavery was just a side issue" claiming confederate apologists are exactly, 100% like neo-nazis. Who also wave the confederate flag, since the swastika has actually been banned in most european nations.

It's not a matter of opinion, they are just wrong.

The nazis did not fight communism. They fought russians. There's a difference.


And the russians kicked their ass...now if only the U.S would admit that and quit trying to downplay the russian influence of victory in WW2 russia and the U.S could be allies, but instead we still have this cold war s**t going on.


Custer could have kicked their asses. They invaded russia IN THE WINTER.

The nazis failed because their military leadership was incompetent.



Sweetleaf
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25 Jul 2015, 12:27 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can say that about the flag the US currently uses but the Confederate flag is a bit more complicated since it was associated with antebellum south when it was allowed to keep people as slaves. I would compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi one. It has the same sort of history. Some people hate the Nazi flag, think it stands for war, oppression and death while a few out there believe it represents Germany when it was trying to survive, fight communism and regain losses.


Fight communism? You believe that bullshit?

The nazis were fighting communism when they invaded poland in search of Lebensraum? When their stated policy was to eradicate the inferior races to make more room for aryans?

Maybe this is a good object lesson.

The nazis, like the confederates before them, were wrong. They were factually, objectively wrong. And their apologists are also wrong.

So yes. Confederate battle flag waving, "slavery was just a side issue" claiming confederate apologists are exactly, 100% like neo-nazis. Who also wave the confederate flag, since the swastika has actually been banned in most european nations.

It's not a matter of opinion, they are just wrong.

The nazis did not fight communism. They fought russians. There's a difference.


And the russians kicked their ass...now if only the U.S would admit that and quit trying to downplay the russian influence of victory in WW2 russia and the U.S could be allies, but instead we still have this cold war s**t going on.


Custer could have kicked their asses. They invaded russia IN THE WINTER.

The nazis failed because their military leadership was incompetent.



Custer? how the F*** would he have beat an army with more advanced technology than bullets and muskets? especially when they had the advantage of knowing their terrain and wether better than the enemy.


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blauSamstag
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25 Jul 2015, 12:43 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can say that about the flag the US currently uses but the Confederate flag is a bit more complicated since it was associated with antebellum south when it was allowed to keep people as slaves. I would compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi one. It has the same sort of history. Some people hate the Nazi flag, think it stands for war, oppression and death while a few out there believe it represents Germany when it was trying to survive, fight communism and regain losses.


Fight communism? You believe that bullshit?

The nazis were fighting communism when they invaded poland in search of Lebensraum? When their stated policy was to eradicate the inferior races to make more room for aryans?

Maybe this is a good object lesson.

The nazis, like the confederates before them, were wrong. They were factually, objectively wrong. And their apologists are also wrong.

So yes. Confederate battle flag waving, "slavery was just a side issue" claiming confederate apologists are exactly, 100% like neo-nazis. Who also wave the confederate flag, since the swastika has actually been banned in most european nations.

It's not a matter of opinion, they are just wrong.

The nazis did not fight communism. They fought russians. There's a difference.


And the russians kicked their ass...now if only the U.S would admit that and quit trying to downplay the russian influence of victory in WW2 russia and the U.S could be allies, but instead we still have this cold war s**t going on.


Custer could have kicked their asses. They invaded russia IN THE WINTER.

The nazis failed because their military leadership was incompetent.



Custer? how the F*** would he have beat an army with more advanced technology than bullets and muskets? especially when they had the advantage of knowing their terrain and wether better than the enemy.


Fine, yes, custer commanding the russian military still would have beat the nazis.

The losses would have been greater but still.

The germans had great (For the time) weapons technology but unfortunately their senior leadership sacrificed all those lives for nothing. Might as well have fed them into a meat grinder.

It was a phenomenally stupid strategic move.

A perfect example of what happens when ideology is allowed to trump reason.



Sweetleaf
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25 Jul 2015, 12:58 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can say that about the flag the US currently uses but the Confederate flag is a bit more complicated since it was associated with antebellum south when it was allowed to keep people as slaves. I would compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi one. It has the same sort of history. Some people hate the Nazi flag, think it stands for war, oppression and death while a few out there believe it represents Germany when it was trying to survive, fight communism and regain losses.


Fight communism? You believe that bullshit?

The nazis were fighting communism when they invaded poland in search of Lebensraum? When their stated policy was to eradicate the inferior races to make more room for aryans?

Maybe this is a good object lesson.

The nazis, like the confederates before them, were wrong. They were factually, objectively wrong. And their apologists are also wrong.

So yes. Confederate battle flag waving, "slavery was just a side issue" claiming confederate apologists are exactly, 100% like neo-nazis. Who also wave the confederate flag, since the swastika has actually been banned in most european nations.

It's not a matter of opinion, they are just wrong.

The nazis did not fight communism. They fought russians. There's a difference.


And the russians kicked their ass...now if only the U.S would admit that and quit trying to downplay the russian influence of victory in WW2 russia and the U.S could be allies, but instead we still have this cold war s**t going on.


Custer could have kicked their asses. They invaded russia IN THE WINTER.

The nazis failed because their military leadership was incompetent.


And what do you figure would have convinced oh so great Custer to not try to invade during the winter...and what is to say things would have been any less harsh outside of the winter? I imagine he would have pussied out of any ventures to invade Russia.


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Sweetleaf
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25 Jul 2015, 12:59 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can say that about the flag the US currently uses but the Confederate flag is a bit more complicated since it was associated with antebellum south when it was allowed to keep people as slaves. I would compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi one. It has the same sort of history. Some people hate the Nazi flag, think it stands for war, oppression and death while a few out there believe it represents Germany when it was trying to survive, fight communism and regain losses.


Fight communism? You believe that bullshit?

The nazis were fighting communism when they invaded poland in search of Lebensraum? When their stated policy was to eradicate the inferior races to make more room for aryans?

Maybe this is a good object lesson.

The nazis, like the confederates before them, were wrong. They were factually, objectively wrong. And their apologists are also wrong.

So yes. Confederate battle flag waving, "slavery was just a side issue" claiming confederate apologists are exactly, 100% like neo-nazis. Who also wave the confederate flag, since the swastika has actually been banned in most european nations.

It's not a matter of opinion, they are just wrong.

The nazis did not fight communism. They fought russians. There's a difference.


And the russians kicked their ass...now if only the U.S would admit that and quit trying to downplay the russian influence of victory in WW2 russia and the U.S could be allies, but instead we still have this cold war s**t going on.


Custer could have kicked their asses. They invaded russia IN THE WINTER.

The nazis failed because their military leadership was incompetent.



Custer? how the F*** would he have beat an army with more advanced technology than bullets and muskets? especially when they had the advantage of knowing their terrain and wether better than the enemy.


Fine, yes, custer commanding the russian military still would have beat the nazis.

The losses would have been greater but still.

The germans had great (For the time) weapons technology but unfortunately their senior leadership sacrificed all those lives for nothing. Might as well have fed them into a meat grinder.

It was a phenomenally stupid strategic move.

A perfect example of what happens when ideology is allowed to trump reason.


Yes turned out Hitler wasn't the military commander he thought he was.


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naturalplastic
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25 Jul 2015, 5:54 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
You can say that about the flag the US currently uses but the Confederate flag is a bit more complicated since it was associated with antebellum south when it was allowed to keep people as slaves. I would compare the Confederate flag to the Nazi one. It has the same sort of history. Some people hate the Nazi flag, think it stands for war, oppression and death while a few out there believe it represents Germany when it was trying to survive, fight communism and regain losses.


Fight communism? You believe that bullshit?

The nazis were fighting communism when they invaded poland in search of Lebensraum? When their stated policy was to eradicate the inferior races to make more room for aryans?

Maybe this is a good object lesson.

The nazis, like the confederates before them, were wrong. They were factually, objectively wrong. And their apologists are also wrong.

So yes. Confederate battle flag waving, "slavery was just a side issue" claiming confederate apologists are exactly, 100% like neo-nazis. Who also wave the confederate flag, since the swastika has actually been banned in most european nations.

It's not a matter of opinion, they are just wrong.

The nazis did not fight communism. They fought russians. There's a difference.


And the russians kicked their ass...now if only the U.S would admit that and quit trying to downplay the russian influence of victory in WW2 russia and the U.S could be allies, but instead we still have this cold war s**t going on.


Custer could have kicked their asses. They invaded russia IN THE WINTER.

The nazis failed because their military leadership was incompetent.


Mostly untrue, and completely irrelevant to the point she was making.

It still took six years for the world to defeat Hitler (so his generals couldn't have been that bad even if he himself wasn't a great general).

The fact that you make the mistake of kissing a cobra ( and contribute to your own demise) doesn't change the fact that the cobra killed you.

Most of the German army was deployed on the Eastern Front, and most of the destruction of the German army took place on the Eastern front.

The fact that Hitler mistakenly recruited Russia to kick his own ass doesn't change the fact that Russia did most of the work -IN kicking his ass.



0_equals_true
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25 Jul 2015, 1:25 pm

From my understanding they haven't banned the confederate flag, the removed it from state property.

I'm not from the US, but following the principles the US is supposed to be about you would expect there would be no symbol on display at all in state government property other than:

1. Relating specifically to that office
2. The state
3. The county
4. The stars and stripes

If the confederate flag featured in the state flag, that might be an exception but there is no historical precedence.

The problem was in allowing it in the first place.



blauSamstag
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25 Jul 2015, 10:08 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
From my understanding they haven't banned the confederate flag, the removed it from state property.

I'm not from the US, but following the principles the US is supposed to be about you would expect there would be no symbol on display at all in state government property other than:

1. Relating specifically to that office
2. The state
3. The county
4. The stars and stripes

If the confederate flag featured in the state flag, that might be an exception but there is no historical precedence.

The problem was in allowing it in the first place.


Yes, the state of Georgia added the stars & bars to their state flag in the 50's, which is just a weird coincidence that it was as the civil rights movement was gaining steam.



0_equals_true
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26 Jul 2015, 4:50 am

I see this in much the same way as the religious iconography in state government buildings and land.

It is all or nothing. Considering it impossible an impractical to have all religious iconography, it must be noting. There is suppose dot be a separation of church and state.

I don't rea'y see how removing a fag harms anyone's rights, one person rights cannot superseded anther's. There is nothing fundamental about wanting to have a flag there. Put the flag on your front lawn, or on you car, business, etc.

It is really not complicated to understand, or have people got to drunk on Mom's Apple Pie that they can't see that they can't degrade the principles of their rights becuase of some affection they have to something?

I also criticise the other side, becuase they did it for the wrong reasons and didn't cite the principle which should be obvious to most American school children.



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29 Jul 2015, 9:01 pm

In regard to the OP -
Sure, the KKK had eagerly flown the stars and stripes, claiming they represented America. And as was pointed out, The American flag had been the flag flying over slave states for eighty years, as opposed to the four years of the Confederate flag. The difference is, the Confederate flag was devised for a nation in existence solely for the continuation of slavery, whereas the American flag represents a nation, that despite having done inexcusable things in the past, has been striving to live up to the rhetoric of liberty and equality that the country was first founded on. And among those good things accomplished under the American flag was ending slavery, then guaranteeing civil rights for the descendants of freed slaves.


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naturalplastic
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29 Jul 2015, 9:55 pm

[
I don't rea'y see how removing a fag harms anyone's rights,
quote]

:D Translation for Americans: "I don't see how removing a cigarette harms anyone's rights".

Just an FYI.