'Not Sure' girl loves a probably autistic man

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I am not playing hard to get. I have actually asked him out to dinner and he didn't understand that I was asking him on a date. He thought I was concerned he couldn't feed himself.

I am pretty sure he knows I am interested in him, but he hasn't figured out what he wants to do about it yet. I have known him a little over a year and I think he just doesn't trust me yet. He's making progress. I am not playing games with him. I have let him know I like him without trying to put any pressure on him. He's just not there yet.

Oh god, are you in my head?! I think/feel that every single day. It really sucks and it's not just you.

This is a more "do as I say and not as I do" thing, but just try to live your life. Be a friend, let him know you like him, don't cut off contact, but know this could take a while. If it's worth the wait, then just keep at it.

I see my situation as there is no one I would rather be with right now, so it's "easy" to wait and work at it. I figure if I did meet someone else I was interested in, then I would have to do some soul searching about what I want to do.

That's really a misunderstanding.



I have huge problems going from friend to relationship (actually never happened), so I'm not sure about this tactic. I hope for your sake he is not one of those aspies that are unable to fall in love with people they know too well.

I guess I will find out. The asking out to dinner happened months ago. I recently tried again, but tried less extreme by asking him to eat lunch with me at work. He got slammed and had to eat at his desk. When he told me that he couldn't eat with me, he kind of braced himself for me to get mad at him for not being able to do it, so he at least understood that this was something important to me that he was backing out of, which is more than he was able to do a few months ago.

I have no idea if he will ever feel comfortable with me in that way, but I like him a lot and I know that I at least am being a friend to him, which I think he needs. If something happens, it happens. If it doesn't, I'll try not to be disappointed.

May I ask why you have problems going from friend to relationship? Is it that you know the person too well and the "mystery" is gone? Is it that you want to go to the next level but that you're too afraid of losing the friendship to go to the next stage?

It's because I need a crush and an obsession to get a really strong attachment to somebody, and I cannot get a crush on somebody I know too well. I can live with somebody even if I never pass those stages, but it will be more like a friendship than a romantic relationship. And I won't get an attachment with sex as I'm asexual, and even if I have sex, it won't create an attachment.

It is possible that this is connected to asexuality, but I'm not sure.

That makes sense. It's stupid, but the guy I like right now is the only person I have ever felt sexually attracted to. I considered myself asexual. I liked talking to men, but then they would want more and it would make me uncomfortable. I actually married a guy who was a friend and because neither of us was sexually attracted to the other. It went poorly.

I feel like it's a balancing act because I know Aspies want familiarity but familiarity is the death of sexual attraction. You have to be unfamiliar enough to be appealing yet not so unfamiliar to be scary. It's rather frustrating!

Then you should know that neurodiverse asexuality is a misnomer for disgust for sexual intercourse. Because of that, neurodiverse people that feel they are asexual typically both have a sexual orientation (which they typically call romantic orientation) and feel sexual attraction, they just don't want regular sexual intercourse. I'm working on a paper about this that I hope will gets published.

So, even if you are sexually attracted to this guy, you could still be largely asexual in that you don't want a lot of sex in a relationship. At least, that's how it works for me. I'm heterosexual, and I certainly feel sexual attraction, but I don't want sexual intercourse with anybody unless I want to reproduce. And sexual intercourse will not affect my attachment state at all. It's just a mechanical act with no purpose unless I want children.



I don't follow. Why is sexual attraction important for a relationship? Personally, I'm more sexually attracted to strangers than to people I know, which is also a neurodiverse trait. So even if I initially had a sexual attraction to a girl, that would disappear as soon as I got to know her (or got a crush on her). I mean, I've had this happen in half-an-hour.

Sexual attraction in a relationship is important for several reasons:

1. You mention reproduction. One aspect of sexual attraction is to select people who will make ideal mates by either contributing genetically or with caregiving. Women are driven a lot by how a prospective mate smells. A mate that can contribute complimentary genetic markers will smell nice to their mate, driving sexual attraction.

2. We evolved to get rewards from things we are supposed to do to stay alive and propagate the species. Most people like food that is sweet because we evolved in a time where there was little food and sweet foods provided necessary energy to go out and kill deer. Sexual attraction is similar in that it gives you incentives to have sex.

I have had sex with men who are not attracted to me and none of them gave a s**t about making sure that I liked it because they knew they would never see me again when it was done. My ex husband didn't enjoy having sex with me, so he didn't try very hard to make our sex life work.

Non-sexual touching like hugs and cuddling have a lot of physiological benefits beyond just leading to procreation. People who are not touched have anxiety issues and problems with violence. They also get sick a lot more.

My understanding from my other Aspie friends is that you can work with an Aspie to train them to not only tolerate, but enjoy being touched. If you have no attraction to someone, you have no incentive to work through the initial discomfort of learning to be touched. If, however, you want to touch the other person very badly, you are more willing to put up with the work necessary to learn to enjoy being touched.

If sexual attraction was unnecessary, it's not something we would have evolved to do. Many people complain of a lack of sexual attraction after the first few years because generating the hormonal responses to attraction takes a lot of work. Your body only does this work as long as is usually necessary to conceive one child and raise it past its most vulnerable life period.

I understand that many Aspies think differently, just wanted to give an evolutionary perspective on why disregarding sexual attraction can be short sighted.

Might be so, but I suspect this is all NT, and not valid for NDs.



Yes, it does, but the purpose of sexual attraction is vastly different between me and an NT. For NTs, sexual attraction leads to sexual activity which leads to attachment. For me, sexual attraction disappears with a crush, and even if I have sex, it won't affect attachment. Instead, I get attachment by obsessing about a girl.

Now, which scheme a person follows doesn't align directly with AS diagnosis, but the ND scheme is more common for aspies.



Agreed, and I think both hugs and cuddling are part of a good relationship, regardless if it also contains sex or not. In fact, hugging seems to be a relationship marker for me, and I only like to do it with somebody I'm in a relationship with. Unlike sex, hugging does affect attachment, so this is a necessary activity in order to keep an attachment over longer periods of time, especially after the obsessive phase has ended.



Not true for me. As I wrote above, hugging is a relationship marker, and I will automatically appreciate it with somebody I have a relationship with, and at the same time still dislike it with everybody else. So, I wouldn't be able to train or work on this, and I really don't need to either.

I can see why you are cautioning me in my approach to this relationship with the person I like!

What is ND? Is ND "NeuroDistypical"? I guess that would follow from NT being "NeuroTypical."

So, if I might ask, how do relationships work with you then? I am assuming that if you are involved in a relationship with someone you get to know them enough to not be sexually attracted to them. Do you only engage in relationships with people you are not sexually attracted to? Do you have sex with people you are attracted to and then lose interest in them immediately?

Do you feel a need for companionship? Why do you engage in relationships?

To me, sexual attraction is the barrier between having a friend and having a relationship. If that is not the case for you, then what is?

Sorry if these are obnoxious questions. I have my own perspective that I realize is different than yours and I would like to understand.

Neurodiverse (similar to Aspie, AS).



I'm married since 22 years with a woman that is mostly asexual.

No, I don't have sex with people I'm sexually attracted to, but there is a purpose of it but it is illegal in the West.



I think for about the same reasons as everybody else (except for sex).



A crush and an obsession with a girl. If I ever had a crush on a girl, I can't view her as a friend anymore.

Okay, so you are an asexual ND. You're married to another asexual person. You've mentioned that if you've had a crush on a girl you can't view her as a friend anymore.

Did you have a crush on your wife? I am trying to figure out how you categorize people in your worldview. What was the path to your marriage? Did it go through friendship, obsession, or some other path?

Yes



We first saw each other regularly at dances for maybe a half-a-year, and usually danced a few dances. That's when I got a crush on her and a mild obsession. We didn't go through friendship, neither through dating. We kind of "got together" one night at a dance were we danced practically every dance (we switched asking each other for a dance). Her mother was also at the dance, so I think she kind of encouraged her. In the pause, I walked up to her and asked her if we could have coffee together, and she agreed. After the dance we hugged, and setup meeting again (I think we exchanged phone numbers). We went to dances together (often in the company of another couple), and also met during weekends at my place or at her parents place. We never met at traditional dating places like movies or restaurants, and we really didn't meet in order to "test" each others as is typical of dating, rather we were already implicitly together. We didn't get officially together until we got engaged later the same year.

Thanks, I'm relieved to see that someone else feels the same. I have felt this every day since the rejection as well. I can't understand why I cannot get past it. I once described it as having a jar full of love, which I carry around. The jar only opens to him. I said to put the jar aside (in the fridge) but it just doesn't work. This feeling of a missed chance just pops up ever idle moment. I could force myself to date and love another man, but the feelings for him are so strong still, I would always feel like I'm in the wrong place, giving love to the wrong person, or faking it.

Yes, this, exactly.

I sometimes ponder if he is locked in the same way, but then in regard to his ex-girlfriend. Personally, I would rather stay alone and love him in silence, than move on. But what if he thinks the same? Then he'll always feel like being in the wrong place when with me. I don't hope so...


It is! I feel sorry for you.

Makes me wonder, Utena - what do you see in the relationship that you want with him?
How would it work out on day to day basis?

I mean, for myself, I'm not sure about it as well. My crush grasps the social rules of going out on dates, sharing a table in a quiet bar, but I don't know if he would enjoy sitting in a restaurant with me.

Mind that there may be something involved with eating for him as well. Does he eat together with other colleagues at one table? He might have eating habits, or ways of handling cutlery, that he finds uncommon and inapropriate to show. Nothing you would probably notice or mind, but to him it can be a big thing. For example, he uses his fork, knife and spoon every time in the same order, even if he only needs the fork. He'll feel embarassed, and would get highly insecure if you saw him do that. By backing out of a lunch invitation he prevents that you see his unusual habits and change your mind about him.

rdos, I'm curious about your paper!


Exactly my point of view. Never knew there were people in the same boat on this, what a relief!

By the way, I can feel sexually attracted to a friend, but just leave it there. Having sexual intercourse would leave expectations on both sides afterwards. It would need kissing and foreplay before you even get to the act itself. I can't think of doing that with a friend, no matter how attracted I am. Besides, most of my male friends have girlfriends, so a spark of attraction is quickly extinguished by those boundaries

I don't know if I am asexual, but if I am, it feels like a shame to me, like a curse. I suppose a lot of men who are interested in me would not be interested once they knew.
I know for a fact that my crush is not interested in it either, because he told me how things went with his ex... he described it beautifully bluntly, like 'then we had to do it...' '...after we were done, like, done. I would prepare her bed for her (his room is really small and he has a single bed) and we would sleep.'
I listened to that smiling, but never got to the point of admitting that I wouldn't mind having it that way - or not even force him to sex at all. If you just want to sleep at night, that's ok, isn't it? No need to follow the rules.

However I have only once been able to drop the line 'the whole bedroom stuff isn't something for me, so I don't miss that either...'.

I still believe he and I would make a pretty happy couple, for reasons normal people would not understand.


I so recognise this. The dance night before everything fell to pieces, he asked me to dance right the moment I walked in, and when, after a few dances, I opted to switch partners, he pulled me towards him and said 'no! you're not going anywhere tonight '. And so we danced every following dance together that night, cuddled a lot between dances. He had his arms around me all the time. He was so open, so trusting to me. We really had a good time. I wish it had stayed that way.
I believe that if I hadn't shown my feelings to him, he still would have dared to dance and cuddle with me like that. I'm so sad I threw all that overboard by mentioning love to him. I now see it killed all trust he had in me. Or could I be wrong in that?

I'm so glad I can speak my mind here. You really help and give insights. Thanks.

It's your "love system" that is messing you up.

Seriously, given that you have been in two rather unfullinging relationships for four years (if I remember it right), maybe you should have patience with your current situation for a while because this seems like a rational thing to do given that your chances for happiness with another man aren't that great. The world isn't exactly full of neurodiverse guys that don't like a lot of sex.



He probably is locked up in some way, but unless she has actively encouraged it in some way, this lock should be possible to break. Also, these traits are related to polyamory, which means that it is possible for him to get another crush on top of it (given your descriptions, he must have gotten that with you already). He can then let a new attachment grow while the old one fades away because of lack of contact. The polyamory part was what I missed back when I was in the same state as him. I thought I could only ever love one woman, so I didn't bother with anybody else. When I actually got more in contact with women as I learned to dance, I got new crushes on top of it, and those made the old attachment fade.



PM your email address, and I'll send you a copy. It's only about asexuality, so doesn't cover the ND relationship traits. However, I hope to eventually fully understand those too.



I've known about asexuality since 2006, and it hasn't really made sense until recently. Initially, I thought asexuality had absolutely nothing to do with me, and it made no sense in Aspie Quiz either, given that the traditional definition would preclude reproduction, and other sexual interests.



That's definitely a reason why you should continue to pursue him even if he currently rejects you.



So do I.



That does sound like he had (probably still has) a crush on you. That's why I think you should get into similar situations with him and flirt with him like you did before. If nothing else, that would confirm or reject that he still has feeling for you. His flirting signals are genuine, while his verbal claims might not be. And don't accept the friends-only status, even if you agree with him on it for now.



I'm also glad that ND people share their experiences in this area so I get insights into this. I really think this needs to be documented so people that don't understand why they are like this can get insights.

I agree with this advice. And, interestingly, this is how my now-husband dealt with me. He kept pursuing after I actually said in my wonderfully blunt, tactless way, "I have absolutely no interest in dating you whatsoever."

I guess he thought I didn't really know what I wanted, but for whatever reason he would not take "no" for an answer!

I have an AS friend, and a lot of the questions I have about the relationship comes down to "What do you want????" Here's my theory...

AS people tend to have a hard time making decisions. It can take me 15 minutes to decide what kind of ice cream I want, so making decisions about something so complicated as a relationships would be an extremely long and difficult process.

It's kind of like taking a *very* long time to get submersed in water at a cold pool, getting in inch-by-inch while one acclimates. No one can speed up this process for me, but if someone splashes me with cold water trying to get me acclimated faster, I will be very annoyed and will retreat some because then I'm more cold. If someone were to *keep on* splashing me, I'd get out of the water. If someone is waiting for me to come into the water, coaxing will urge me to *try* to move a little faster. But I wouldn't want someone to just stand there waiting for me to get into the water. I would enjoy watching my friend swim around and have fun while I am getting in, as long as my friend meets up again with me as soon as I am ready. But if my friend lost patience with me, and either got out of the water before I could get acclimated or decided that I was "no fun" and not worth being around once I was in, I would be hurt and disappointed and feel rejected.

So, if you think this guy actually, really does have feelings for you and you think the relationship would work, wait. Be very patient. He has his reasons for taking his time. Coax (flirt), but don't splash (laying on the heavy, intense feelings.) Make sure you go about normal life. He might feel guilty if you "stop everything" for him because he might feel it is his fault you are "held up." Don't ditch him.