American Dentist kills Endangered Lion in Zimbabwe.

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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04 Aug 2015, 4:19 pm

eric76 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
neilson_wheels wrote:
As above, even "Save the Rhino" supports hunting because they don't have a choice. It's quite well hidden on the site under "sustainable utilisation" with a link to a seperate pdf which you can view here:

HUNTING

It still does not give anyone any excuse if caught poaching, including rich americans. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.



They can manage the rhinos without all that. In order to be sure the "right" rhino was "hunted" I am guessing they would have to single it out. It would involve some kind of situation where it's the only rhino in the area, otherwise the chances of killing a different rhino would be high and that, my friend, is not real hunting. Not by a longshot. You can raise these animals captive in the US and let some guy go in and slaughter for a fee. It would be the same thing.

Veterinarians and rangers could easily separate these supposedly "troublesome" rhinos, and I am not even sure if this is a real issue since, before rhinos had their lands taken by territorial humans, and there wasn't an endless parade of poachers and hunters, they seemed to do alright on their own, even with tribes hunting now and then for food.


There doesn't appear to be any need to do that. My understanding is that the rhinos that are killed in the hunts are older animals that won't likely live all that much longer and that at least for the black rhinos, ever hunter is accompanied by game officials who are there to make sure that everything is correct including the selection of the rhino.

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In other words, sounds like hog wash, or in this case, rhino wash to me. It's an excuse to make money on hunting rhinos because they like to have that lucrative source of cash available and instead of coming up with some bs or in this case, rs, they should just admit it.


Huh? They readily admit that they need the cash from the hunters -- that they cannot bring in enough from other sources.



In the link they said they were doing it for the good of the rhinos by getting rid of certain males but generations of rhinos have told us, they have gotten by fine without that before. What they do not need is humans interfering with every little part of their existence. Not much they can do about it. That's why their numbers are so low.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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04 Aug 2015, 4:23 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's so arrogant to ignore all those years of evolution, in favor of a pdf some group that profits off of hunting black rhinos created to justify their income source, typed up just a few years ago, in response to those critiquing their practices.

Just because I don't fall for it, you call me poorly informed? Seems you are just prejudice in their favor.


If you had read it you would know that this organisation does not accept any funds from hunting. They feel that they do not have a choice in accepting it's existence as there is no other way for these countries to cover the costs of anti-poaching operations.

If you had read more of the information freely available to you, you would have a better understanding of the issues that affect conservation.

Personally i have a degree in ecology and volunteer my time to local conservation projects. Take from that what you want.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
We know, that for all the years rhinos have existed, it is not clear that it needed humans hunting the older male bulls in order to thrive. So there goes that!

It's just bs. Rhinos can exist just fine without humans. So can lions and these other animals. I doubt even domesticated dogs would die out without humans feeding them. They might struggle at first but in a couple generations, they would revert back to their wolf like instincts and continue on. It's pure egocentricity and ignorance for humans to believe animals need them to thrive. History says it simply isn't true.


The real issue is that NOW there are way more, possibly too many people on this planet, all competing for space with wild animals. We need to find a compromise that works for all, the system in place NOW is the one that works best NOW. Or maybe that's just BS too.


That paper has one big rationalization in it while ignoring the fact it's HUMANS that are the number one reason the rhinos are low in number. It's not due to lack of big game hunters knocking off a few elderly rhinos. That is what I object to. They can at least be honest instead of the rs. Honesty would mean admitting money is to be made and that's the sole reason they cave to big game hunters. It's got nothing to do with what's good for the animals because that would be giving them space and leaving them be.



auntblabby
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04 Aug 2015, 5:10 pm

IMHO, the proof in the pudding is that humans have not been good for the planet, nor to other living things or even each other. WE are the fly in the ointment, we have met the enemy and he is us. there never have been enough good humans to outweigh the damage caused by the bad humans.



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04 Aug 2015, 8:24 pm

Raptor wrote:
justkillingtime wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Since we're in an animal loving mode, how many of you animal lovers actually do anything for animals? I'm actively a Humane Society volunteer who makes time to work with shelter dogs every week rain or shine. Charity begins and home and I'm guessing none of us calls Zimbabwe home.


I donate to various animal organizations. I live in an apartment with a patio and keep out food and water for the squirrels, chipmunks and birds. I also plant bushes and plants that birds and hummingbirds like. The idea of volunteering to work with animals has given me an idea. I had read somewhere that if you work at the humane society, you have to participate in the euthanasia but maybe that is employee not volunteer.

I guess it would depend on the location but I can't see volunteers being required to participate in euthanasia since that would drive them away. The one I'm with is a no-kill shelter although there are, of course, exceptions to that policy. We actually take in animals from kill-for-space shelters when there is room.

You'll probably have to attend some kind of volunteer orientation which will include an animal handling class for dogs and/or cats. The scope of volunteer activity can include but is not limited to dog walking, washing dishes, doing laundry for their bedding, helping at adoption events, etc. I only work the dog side of the house since I'm a dog man and dogs require more work than cats.

It's some serious work just taking out dog after dog after dog after dog for for walks for hours (and miles) on end. They get wild with excitement and with big dogs it can be a chore in itself just to keep them under control. Still, it's the most rewarding thing I do and I look forward to it more than anything else.

You can also check out the SPCA and city / county shelters since they usually need volunteer help, too.


I signed up for volunteer orientation at the Humane Society. Thanks for the above information. It was enough to get me going.


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WAautisticguy
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04 Aug 2015, 9:03 pm

This is just sad. I hope this dentist gets DECADES of prison time. Lions, elephants, rhinos, hippos have been endangered due to stupid people. They all want their 15 minutes of fame. Disgusting. By the time I have grandkids, I'll have to tell them sadly "all the elephants died because of humans". :(
Even legendary game show host Bob Barker, who is a huge advocate of animals (keep your pets spayed or neutered), thinks this guy is disgusting.
http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/ ... me-sort-of



Aprilviolets
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05 Aug 2015, 12:02 am

Something should be done about these horrible oxygen thieves who think its their right to kill other living creatures and stand over them like smiling assassins. despicable disgusting scum. :evil: :evil: :evil:



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05 Aug 2015, 2:11 am

justkillingtime wrote:
Raptor wrote:
justkillingtime wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Since we're in an animal loving mode, how many of you animal lovers actually do anything for animals? I'm actively a Humane Society volunteer who makes time to work with shelter dogs every week rain or shine. Charity begins and home and I'm guessing none of us calls Zimbabwe home.


I donate to various animal organizations. I live in an apartment with a patio and keep out food and water for the squirrels, chipmunks and birds. I also plant bushes and plants that birds and hummingbirds like. The idea of volunteering to work with animals has given me an idea. I had read somewhere that if you work at the humane society, you have to participate in the euthanasia but maybe that is employee not volunteer.

I guess it would depend on the location but I can't see volunteers being required to participate in euthanasia since that would drive them away. The one I'm with is a no-kill shelter although there are, of course, exceptions to that policy. We actually take in animals from kill-for-space shelters when there is room.

You'll probably have to attend some kind of volunteer orientation which will include an animal handling class for dogs and/or cats. The scope of volunteer activity can include but is not limited to dog walking, washing dishes, doing laundry for their bedding, helping at adoption events, etc. I only work the dog side of the house since I'm a dog man and dogs require more work than cats.

It's some serious work just taking out dog after dog after dog after dog for for walks for hours (and miles) on end. They get wild with excitement and with big dogs it can be a chore in itself just to keep them under control. Still, it's the most rewarding thing I do and I look forward to it more than anything else.

You can also check out the SPCA and city / county shelters since they usually need volunteer help, too.


I signed up for volunteer orientation at the Humane Society. Thanks for the above information. It was enough to get me going.

Awesome! :wtg:


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05 Aug 2015, 3:53 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
That paper has one big rationalization in it while ignoring the fact it's HUMANS that are the number one reason the rhinos are low in number. It's not due to lack of big game hunters knocking off a few elderly rhinos. That is what I object to. They can at least be honest instead of the rs. Honesty would mean admitting money is to be made and that's the sole reason they cave to big game hunters. It's got nothing to do with what's good for the animals because that would be giving them space and leaving them be.


I think that what you have said above is exactly what is in that statement, honesty and a reluctant acceptance that not everyone thinks and feels the same. I respect your opinion and right to object. I'm afraid that just leaving them alone will not work on this crowded planet. As before the main problem for most african species is poaching for the asian market not trophy hunting.

So do you have a real world solution as an alternative? Culling people maybe?

As for the toxic horn dye concept, I can't see much difference to the practice of de-horning but at least the Rhino will still be able to defend itself from other animals. When Rhinos are de-horned or horn-dyed they are still killed by poachers, as they have spent time tracking the animal they don't want to let it live and waste time tracking it again.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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05 Aug 2015, 9:30 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/05/opini ... .html?_r=0

Another ridiculous claim that lions are a threat to humans smh I cannot believe the lies people are willing to indulge in, why, I have no clue! It is so obvious lions are NOT a threat to humans, even in African countries where they are indigenous to the land. All you have to do is look at the numbers! If lions were a threat to the human species, you would see very few humans and a whole lotta lions everywhere. Be real! It's the other way 'round. An over abundance of humans all over the world, and in some places, especially large species like elephants and top predators, are disappearing at an alarming rate and will likely be virtually gone in 100 years when the human population, and if the Duggar Army have their way, will continue to skyrocket by a huge percentage each decade and all because of lies like this. Even with the Duggar Army each producing ten kids per parent, there can be room for the top predators if we give them spaces in which to live where their interactions with humans are minimal.



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05 Aug 2015, 9:58 am

Higher intelligence is an evolutionary dead end -- a failed experiment!


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neilson_wheels
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05 Aug 2015, 10:21 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I have no clue!


Don't worry, I already figured that out.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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05 Aug 2015, 10:57 am

neilson_wheels wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I have no clue!


Don't worry, I already figured that out.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.



auntblabby
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05 Aug 2015, 4:03 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Higher intelligence is an evolutionary dead end -- a failed experiment!

but what would have happened if everybody was as intelligence as, say, Einstein?



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05 Aug 2015, 8:27 pm

neilson_wheels wrote:
Culling people maybe?


Seems like lots of people would be ok with that as long as someone does if for them.



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06 Aug 2015, 2:41 am

Image
If I had a lion he'd look like Cecil.
Boo hoo hoo


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06 Aug 2015, 2:47 am

Raptor wrote:
Image
If I had a lion he'd look like Cecil.
Boo hoo hoo


He would probably not be invited for Mugabe's 92th birthday party ;) .

Quote:
His guests were fed a young elephant, and two buffaloes, two sables and five impalas were also donated to the president by a local landowner. He also threw in a lion and a crocodile to be stuffed as an extra gift for Mugabe. On top of this, 40 cows were offered to the president by two members of his government. A second elephant is going to be shot and given to the Victoria Falls community.