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Can Genetics Find a Cure for Autism?

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Pepe
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18 Aug 2015, 7:23 am

Ban-Dodger wrote:
The ONLY « reliable » source of information is s**t that I can personally test for myself.


I have a different approach...
If I have determined someone is worthy of my respect in a certain field, I tend to maintain that position unless there is reason not to do so...
Quote:
Well look at that... even the .gov web-site sources seem to be saying the same thing apparently.


It is the same article... ;)

But I will give you a credibility point for the (same) article being on a credible website with it's references included this time...

Quote:
A LOT of also « References » that are of the « Medical-Publications » also seem to be included in foot-notes...


This would have been helpful in determining credibility on the sott.nett website... ;)

But ultimately, we are back from where we started...
What alternative is there to the peer review system?
Better to have a system that does something...
Than not having a system that does nothing... 8)



Pepe
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18 Aug 2015, 8:00 am

Lintar wrote:
I'll believe that Einstein was autistic when I see evidence for it! So far I have seen none!


"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."...
Please provide proof that he wasn't... :mrgreen:

Edit...You answered this

But back on topic...
If someone on the spectrum had significantly and positively contributed to society, would it not be unfortunate if an autism cure had denied that benefit?

I could expand...
But I am dieting... :mrgreen:



trayder
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18 Aug 2015, 5:53 pm

Pepe wrote:
Lintar wrote:
I'll believe that Einstein was autistic when I see evidence for it! So far I have seen none!


"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."...
Please provide proof that he wasn't... :mrgreen:

Edit...You answered this

But back on topic...
If someone on the spectrum had significantly and positively contributed to society, would it not be unfortunate if an autism cure had denied that benefit?

I could expand...
But I am dieting... :mrgreen:


In any event, genetic research is not sufficiently advanced and may never advance to the point of determining whether certain developments are not in accordance with evolutionary outcomes. The autistic spectrum is something of a dustbin of functions and captures quite high functionally conscious individuals along with lots of other cognitive states.



Pepe
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18 Aug 2015, 8:07 pm

trayder wrote:
The autistic spectrum is something of a dustbin of functions and captures quite high functionally conscious individuals along with lots of other cognitive states.


"true dat"...



Ban-Dodger
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18 Aug 2015, 8:29 pm

This thread now really needs a talk by Dr. Rupert Sheldrake on Genetics & how it's actually a Flawed Science...

I apologise for the length of this presentation, but on the other hand, the information is compelling.


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Lintar
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18 Aug 2015, 8:32 pm

Pepe wrote:
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."...
Please provide proof that he wasn't... :mrgreen:


I'll provide a cliche to counter this - "The burden of evidence resides with the claimant". :mrgreen:

Misery, I didn't set out here to start an argument, or upset anyone. That wasn't my intention. For that I am sorry. :( I can be very forthright and persistent when it comes to things like this, and I myself get upset when someone makes a claim that I believe is unsubstantiated, but which they then use for purposes that are ulterior and possibly harmful. There are some (stress: some) who really do assume that if you are high-functioning autistic you must be a genius, or like 'Rain Man'. They are ignorant, I know, but when those who say they are also 'on the spectrum' start to perpetuate these myths, they merely provide yet more ammo for these imbeciles to justify their own stereotypes of us.



trayder
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18 Aug 2015, 8:50 pm

Lintar wrote:
Pepe wrote:
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."...
Please provide proof that he wasn't... :mrgreen:


I'll provide a cliche to counter this - "The burden of evidence resides with the claimant". :mrgreen:

Misery, I didn't set out here to start an argument, or upset anyone. That wasn't my intention. For that I am sorry. :( I can be very forthright and persistent when it comes to things like this, and I myself get upset when someone makes a claim that I believe is unsubstantiated, but which they then use for purposes that are ulterior and possibly harmful. There are some (stress: some) who really do assume that if you are high-functioning autistic you must be a genius, or like 'Rain Man'. They are ignorant, I know, but when those who say they are also 'on the spectrum' start to perpetuate these myths, they merely provide yet more ammo for these imbeciles to justify their own stereotypes of us.


It looks to me like you are the one making the value judgements. The facts stand however. Certain functions evident in individuals subject to being categorised in the autism range are in fact highly sought after by NTs and in general underpin the character of society based on reason. CERTAIN functions. That is not then saying that these individuals are of a superior order and to read that into that comment is something of a leap.

However, it behoves us as a group and as a society to fully understand these functions so as we can better understand the nature of consciousness. Nothing more. Anyone who sees this as a greenlight to then go and set up a supremacist order for these individuals cannot function at this level as supremacist notions and objectivity are mutually exclusive.



Lintar
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18 Aug 2015, 9:02 pm

trayder wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Pepe wrote:
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."...
Please provide proof that he wasn't... :mrgreen:


I'll provide a cliche to counter this - "The burden of evidence resides with the claimant". :mrgreen:

Misery, I didn't set out here to start an argument, or upset anyone. That wasn't my intention. For that I am sorry. :( I can be very forthright and persistent when it comes to things like this, and I myself get upset when someone makes a claim that I believe is unsubstantiated, but which they then use for purposes that are ulterior and possibly harmful. There are some (stress: some) who really do assume that if you are high-functioning autistic you must be a genius, or like 'Rain Man'. They are ignorant, I know, but when those who say they are also 'on the spectrum' start to perpetuate these myths, they merely provide yet more ammo for these imbeciles to justify their own stereotypes of us.


It looks to me like you are the one making the value judgements. The facts stand however. Certain functions evident in individuals subject to being categorised in the autism range are in fact highly sought after by NTs and in general underpin the character of society based on reason. CERTAIN functions. That is not then saying that these individuals are of a superior order and to read that into that comment is something of a leap.

However, it behoves us as a group and as a society to fully understand these functions so as we can better understand the nature of consciousness. Nothing more. Anyone who sees this as a greenlight to then go and set up a supremacist order for these individuals cannot function at this level as supremacist notions and objectivity are mutually exclusive.


'Value judgements'? Where? If so, then I didn't even realise I was making them. I don't see any supremacists here either. I am not one of them.



trayder
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18 Aug 2015, 9:12 pm

Lintar wrote:
trayder wrote:
Lintar wrote:
Pepe wrote:
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."...
Please provide proof that he wasn't... :mrgreen:


I'll provide a cliche to counter this - "The burden of evidence resides with the claimant". :mrgreen:

Misery, I didn't set out here to start an argument, or upset anyone. That wasn't my intention. For that I am sorry. :( I can be very forthright and persistent when it comes to things like this, and I myself get upset when someone makes a claim that I believe is unsubstantiated, but which they then use for purposes that are ulterior and possibly harmful. There are some (stress: some) who really do assume that if you are high-functioning autistic you must be a genius, or like 'Rain Man'. They are ignorant, I know, but when those who say they are also 'on the spectrum' start to perpetuate these myths, they merely provide yet more ammo for these imbeciles to justify their own stereotypes of us.


It looks to me like you are the one making the value judgements. The facts stand however. Certain functions evident in individuals subject to being categorised in the autism range are in fact highly sought after by NTs and in general underpin the character of society based on reason. CERTAIN functions. That is not then saying that these individuals are of a superior order and to read that into that comment is something of a leap.

However, it behoves us as a group and as a society to fully understand these functions so as we can better understand the nature of consciousness. Nothing more. Anyone who sees this as a greenlight to then go and set up a supremacist order for these individuals cannot function at this level as supremacist notions and objectivity are mutually exclusive.


'Value judgements'? Where? If so, then I didn't even realise I was making them. I don't see any supremacists here either. I am not one of them.


Good. As it does help in recognising that some of us in this label are acutely conscious of man, his condition, dispassionate society and the higher faculties and I really would like to know how that works, not be told that I should not be banging my drum as that is utterly of no interest to me. I have been told this all the way through my life and it is absurd, a new Inquisition that seeks to shut us up when all we are is curious about these propensities.



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18 Aug 2015, 9:32 pm

Lintar wrote:
I don't have an 'obsession' with denying that autistic individuals can also be intelligent, I just don't automatically assume, as many do, that there is a causal connection, or even a correlation, between autism and genius. There is, at this point in time, nothing to substantiate such a claim.

Are you sure? I think there may be more here than you recognize.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/gen ... udy-finds/
http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/10/w ... in-common/

It would be poor practice to oversimplify any of this, or extrapolate general principles from a few suggestive studies, but it would also be an error to deny categorically that there is any evidence of a correlation when such evidence does exist.



trayder
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18 Aug 2015, 9:39 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Lintar wrote:
I don't have an 'obsession' with denying that autistic individuals can also be intelligent, I just don't automatically assume, as many do, that there is a causal connection, or even a correlation, between autism and genius. There is, at this point in time, nothing to substantiate such a claim.

Are you sure? I think there may be more here than you recognize.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/gen ... udy-finds/
http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/10/w ... in-common/

It would be poor practice to oversimplify any of this, or extrapolate general principles from a few suggestive studies, but it would also be an error to deny categorically that there is any evidence of a correlation when such evidence does exist.


It is less absurd to hypothesise that these tweaks to consciousness are likely in the biological records than to deny their existence. Finding them is the other issue but the initial parameters are not unreasonable.



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18 Aug 2015, 10:24 pm

Lintar wrote:
Pepe wrote:
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence."...
Please provide proof that he wasn't... :mrgreen:


I'll provide a cliche to counter this - "The burden of evidence resides with the claimant". :mrgreen:

Misery, I didn't set out here to start an argument, or upset anyone. That wasn't my intention. For that I am sorry. :( I can be very forthright and persistent when it comes to things like this, and I myself get upset when someone makes a claim that I believe is unsubstantiated, but which they then use for purposes that are ulterior and possibly harmful. There are some (stress: some) who really do assume that if you are high-functioning autistic you must be a genius, or like 'Rain Man'. They are ignorant, I know, but when those who say they are also 'on the spectrum' start to perpetuate these myths, they merely provide yet more ammo for these imbeciles to justify their own stereotypes of us.


Oh, that's fine, dont worry about it; like I said, I sound like this pretty much all the time. People tend to get this idea that I'm angry when I'm actually not. Part of it is how I phrase things... I'm aware of this yet it's sorta an ingrained habit by now, so.... feh. But yeah, no actual problem. This though recently is why I keep saying things like "I apologize if this all sounds mean or offensive" at the bottom of any longer post I might make. Theoretically it defuses the effect a bit, but I cant tell wether it's actually helping or not.

And I tend to just step out of things when a potential debate might develop overall... I know plenty of people can be good at having a proper, normal debate (as in, not an arguement), but I"m not one of them. Either I get agitated, or I ramble too much, start straying off the course, and end up talking about, I dunno, cats or something. Needless to say, this doesnt really help the debate process. All it does is make things all confused.



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18 Aug 2015, 11:04 pm

Adamantium wrote:
Lintar wrote:
I don't have an 'obsession' with denying that autistic individuals can also be intelligent, I just don't automatically assume, as many do, that there is a causal connection, or even a correlation, between autism and genius. There is, at this point in time, nothing to substantiate such a claim.

Are you sure? I think there may be more here than you recognize.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/gen ... udy-finds/
http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/10/w ... in-common/


"They also caution against characterizing the genetic roots of conditions like autism — or other potentially disabling problems like mood disorders, which have been linked with exceptional creativity — as wholly negative. If the same “risk” genes may lead to both debilitating autism and great intellectual gifts, we need to understand them far better before we label them as unwanted."
http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/10/w ... in-common/

I wish I had said that...
Oh wait!
I pretty much did!
I must be one of those "idiot" savant autistic guys you see on 60 minutes, or sumfink... :mrgreen:

Edit:



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18 Aug 2015, 11:57 pm

"Diane Kennedy, an author and advocate for Asperger Syndrome, writes, “They are our visionaries, scientists, diplomats, inventors, chefs, artists, writers and musicians. They are the original thinkers and a driving force in our culture.”"
http://www.yourlittleprofessor.com/the- ... -syndrome/

Until we have a better understanding of these funny little autistic people, we should cease and desist any attempt at curing or intellectually castrating them...
They are mostly harmless...
Let it be... :mrgreen: