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GiantHockeyFan
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28 Aug 2015, 12:55 pm

I am misunderstood all the time but ONLY within my peer group (say 25-35). No wonder I was so "shy" growing up!



Owl123
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28 Aug 2015, 4:06 pm

b9 wrote:
i sort of like being misunderstood. i am seeing a psychologist recently about my health anxiety, and she has directed me to consider why i like being misunderstood.

i just like to elicit facial expressions of puzzlement. she says it shows that i consider people as objects or toys.
i do not care whether a person is closely aware of what my real thinking is. i just like to do or say things that cause their faces to change into expressions i want to see.
i like it when they scratch their heads in confusion and have a dopey expression on their face while they consider how to respond.

what is the use in someone else understanding exactly where i am coming from?
i will still come from there whether or not they like it, so it seems rather boring to just wait for an endorsement of what i really am thinking considering i have no interest in external endorsements.

it is much more interesting to lead people into thinking you are smart and then bamboozling them with a seemingly illogical or simplistic observation that belies their expectations of you. they want to be polite to maintain the status quo, but nevertheless they wear an expression that is the result of puzzlement, and that is what i like to achieve.

sometimes i like to talk, but often i just narrate the behind the scenes details associated with what i otherwise superficially say.



Man, You're awesome! I wish I could also do that. To erase the thought of pleasing other people. Tell me your style Master. : 3



kraftiekortie
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28 Aug 2015, 4:09 pm

You become a "better you" if you are able to make other people happy as well as yourself.

If all you think about is yourself, you become pretty useless to other people.

You're richer if you think about the happiness of others.



nick007
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29 Aug 2015, 1:07 am

I did alot as a kid, in my teens & with my parents till my mid 20s.


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olympiadis
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29 Aug 2015, 1:18 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
You become a "better you" if you are able to make other people happy as well as yourself.

If all you think about is yourself, you become pretty useless to other people.

You're richer if you think about the happiness of others.


That is a very classic hive-mind meme.



b9
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29 Aug 2015, 7:53 am

Owl123 wrote:
b9 wrote:
i sort of....etc



Man, You're awesome! I wish I could also do that. To erase the thought of pleasing other people. Tell me your style Master. : 3

i wonder if you are being sarcastic, but i do not really care any way if you are or are not.

i have no interest in other people's pleasure but it is not because i erased it. i never had it in the first place.

i do not have any interest in creating displeasure in people so i am not antithetic to concord in any way.
i just think that if i were never born, then everyone would still be having the same life anyway, so my non contribution in a productive way to their lives would be of no consequence to their ultimate destinies.

i may as well play games with them to see how they act. but i do know what may make someone sad and i would never do that.



b9
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29 Aug 2015, 7:56 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
You become a "better you" if you are able to make other people happy as well as yourself.

If all you think about is yourself, you become pretty useless to other people.

You're richer if you think about the happiness of others.


you often sound to me as if you always try to say what you determine to be correct, but it sometimes seems to me to be like a string of platitudes. almost "slick" in a way.



Adamantium
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29 Aug 2015, 8:42 am

b9 wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You become a "better you" if you are able to make other people happy as well as yourself.

If all you think about is yourself, you become pretty useless to other people.

You're richer if you think about the happiness of others.


you often sound to me as if you always try to say what you determine to be correct, but it sometimes seems to me to be like a string of platitudes. almost "slick" in a way.


Interesting.

My thought when I read that was that I agreed in general with the main idea that kraftiekortie was expressing, but not with particular details of how he said it, but not to such a degree that I would think it through and point that out.

But since you commented on this, I'll express a bit of that:

The first thing that seemed off or "hit a false note" to me was the statement about being useless to people if you only think about yourself. The idea that relationships should be based on the utility of others or one's utility in the eyes of others seems very off, to me -- against my ethics.

The "richer" and "better you" ideas seem closer to the mark, but are so vague that they convey little.

It's difficult to think through a more precise expression of the idea that I think kraftie was getting at, and that I am in sympathy with, but it's more or less along these lines:

I recognize that other people have a sense of being, a consciousness, somewhat like my own. Like me, they feel pain and pleasure, engagement and disinterest, fear and contentment. I assume that their inner lives are similar in general detail to my own. I take this assumption of similarity as the basis for my version of the golden rule: do things to others that you would like them to do to you and don't do things to them that you would not like them to do to you.

Taking just that principle as a basis for personal ethics goes a long way, but it's only part of my system. The second thing is utilitarian. Do the sort of things that are consistent with creating the kind of environment you would like to live in and try to convince others to do the same. If enough people do the same, then the environment will be more like the one you desire. This idea is tempered by the golden rule: only try to impose your ideals on the environment to the extent that you are not making others miserable.

But another thing is recognizing the intense pleasure that comes from sharing positive experiences with others, or observing others doing something in a particularly beautiful or excellent way. This is something like the idea expressed by the ancient Greek concept of Arete. To revel in some aspect of life and to know that others experience that same thing is delightful to me.

Do you find no sympathy for others, no parallels in your feelings and enthusiasms and what you can see of theirs? I think it is that sense of shared experience that is enriching.

It seems to me that recognizing one's own humanity and the humanity of others is one of the actions that one can engage in with excellence and beauty and living that way and recognizing it is one of the best things in life. This can be from small things like enjoying the taste of a piece of fruit, or the infinite pattern of a fractal, to large things like a completing a complex project, writing a symphony or building a house.

I often go for walks with my son and we share jokes, wordplay and construct absurd alternative histories or situations as we walk, but also stop to admire moments of natural beauty such as the light on the trees or in the clouds, or the quality of the moon or starry sky. When I think back over the last four months of my life, it is those walks that stand out as the best moments.

That is the sort of thing that I imagine kraftie was trying to express, though very obliquely. Perhaps I am wrong.



b9
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29 Aug 2015, 8:47 am

i really have not much interest in the matter i am sorry.



Adamantium
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29 Aug 2015, 8:53 am

b9 wrote:
i really have not much interest in the matter i am sorry.


Nothing to be sorry about -- I am only interested in it because it partially coincides with things that I am quite interested in, like being happy.



b9
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29 Aug 2015, 9:10 am

Adamantium wrote:
b9 wrote:
i really have not much interest in the matter i am sorry.


Nothing to be sorry about -- I am only interested in it because it partially coincides with things that I am quite interested in, like being happy.
i said sorry in a sort of deference to the fact that you quoted me and said so much and i just posted a footnote that described what i wanted to say and it may have seemed dismissive to the "social observer".
bye the way, i do not think coincidences can be partial.

i also am happy anyway without being worried about what is happening in the wider world. i like also to be happy and fortunately i almost always am.



Adamantium
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29 Aug 2015, 9:20 am

b9 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
b9 wrote:
i really have not much interest in the matter i am sorry.


Nothing to be sorry about -- I am only interested in it because it partially coincides with things that I am quite interested in, like being happy.
i said sorry in a sort of deference to the fact that you quoted me and said so much and i just posted a footnote that described what i wanted to say and it may have seemed dismissive to the "social observer".
bye the way, i do not think coincidences can be partial.

i also am happy anyway without being worried about what is happening in the wider world. i like also to be happy and fortunately i almost always am.


I am glad that you are usually happy.

I took your brief comment about kraftie's slickness as an excuse to selfishly dive into a sort of monologue about some things that I was already thinking about. While I hope some will read it and agree or disagree with it, it was self-indulgently long. I would not take it at all badly if you had simply ignored it. I appreciate your social gesture in responding at all.



b9
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29 Aug 2015, 9:26 am

Adamantium wrote:
b9 wrote:
Adamantium wrote:
b9 wrote:
i really have not much interest in the matter i am sorry.


Nothing to be sorry about -- I am only interested in it because it partially coincides with things that I am quite interested in, like being happy.
i said sorry in a sort of deference to the fact that you quoted me and said so much and i just posted a footnote that described what i wanted to say and it may have seemed dismissive to the "social observer".
bye the way, i do not think coincidences can be partial.

i also am happy anyway without being worried about what is happening in the wider world. i like also to be happy and fortunately i almost always am.


I am glad that you are usually happy.

I took your brief comment about kraftie's slickness as an excuse to selfishly dive into a sort of monologue about some things that I was already thinking about. While I hope some will read it and agree or disagree with it, it was self-indulgently long.

oh well. what ever is the case, it all comes good in the end.



kraftiekortie
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29 Aug 2015, 9:34 am

I stand by what I said. I don't believe I'm being platitudinous.

Maybe it's too "general."

Maybe I should cater what I say to specific situations, rather than make broad statements.

Am I slick? Nobody I know thinks I'm slick. If you met me, you wouldn't think that I'm slick. I'm a klutz. I'm not one to make broad, "slick" statements. I guess I came across wrong here.

Yeah...I used to be selfish, only caring about myself. Since I "discovered" other people, I find that I have the potential to be a richer person. If one does good deeds for others, one becomes richer as a result--because you made the other person "richer." I DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM IN THAT!! !! ! What's the problem in that? Something doesn't make sense here.

I don't believe in Ayn Rand's thing about "enlightened self-interest." I feel it justifies the nastiness in people.

I believe we have to take everyone's viewpoint into consideration, not just your own. If you stick to solipsism, you become STUCK, period. You're stuck in your own impressions; I believe it's presumptuous to believe that your own ideas are the epitome of it all. One has to have input from others.

That's why we have progressed: because ideas have evolved from one person to another--many times, it takes the form of one's take on the previous person's take of an idea. Without Freud, say, we wouldn't have Ericsson. Without the people who wrote things like Richard III before Shakespeare, we wouldn't have Shakespeare's take on it (no matter how historically flawed it is). Richard III, by Shakespeare, was Shakespeare's TAKE on a play previously written by someone else. Shakespeare did this all the time.



kraftiekortie
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29 Aug 2015, 9:40 am

Yes, Adamantium....If I had a kid, I would seek to do the same things you do with your kid.

There was a show which depicted this sort of relationship well: "The Courtship of Eddie's Father." It was depicted in the opening credits (yes, by implication, not by literal actions for the most part)



b9
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29 Aug 2015, 9:48 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I stand by what I said. I don't believe I'm being platitudinous.

Maybe it's too "general."

Maybe I should cater what I say to specific situations, rather than make broad statements.

Am I slick? Nobody I know thinks I'm slick. If you met me, you wouldn't think that I'm slick. I'm a klutz. I'm not one to make broad, "slick" statements. I guess I came across wrong here.

Yeah...I used to be selfish, only caring about myself. Since I "discovered" other people, I find that I have the potential to be a richer person. If one does good deeds for others, one becomes richer as a result--because you made the other person "richer." I DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM IN THAT!! ! ! ! What's the problem in that? Something doesn't make sense here.

I don't believe in Ayn Rand's thing about "enlightened self-interest." I feel it justifies the nastiness in people.

I believe we have to take everyone's viewpoint into consideration, not just your own. If you stick to solipsism, you become STUCK, period. You're stuck in your own impressions; I believe it's presumptuous to believe that your own ideas are the epitome of it all. One has to have input from others.

That's why we have progressed: because ideas have evolved from one person to another--many times, it takes the form of one's take on the previous person's take of an idea. Without Freud, say, we wouldn't have Ericsson. Without the people who wrote things like Richard III before Shakespeare, we wouldn't have Shakespeare's take on it (no matter how historically flawed it is). Richard III, by Shakespeare, was Shakespeare's TAKE on a play previously written by someone else. Shakespeare did this all the time.

i would not worry about it too much. why does everyone need to explain why they think the way they do? "platitude" is maybe a derogatory word, and i realize i should have chosen a non derogatory equivalent, but i can not think of one so i will leave it up to the reader to supplant whatever they come up with that is a suitable alternative to the derogatory word "platitude".

so no need to worry about what i said.