Page 3 of 3 [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

mr_bigmouth_502
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,995
Location: Alberta, Canada

07 Sep 2015, 5:38 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Grebels wrote:
I've seen two many young kids looking older than me due to heroin. However, the discussion is about weed. Does smoking pot lead to taking hard drugs? I've seen cases where it definitely has. Why should a man feel the need to smoke mariuana in the toilet at work knowing full well he'd get sacked on the spot if caught? People say it isn't addictive.


I brought up heroin in response to the suggestion all drugs should be legal which I don't support.

As far as weed leading to harder drugs, I doubt the notion people start out with weed then go onto other things. I think what they do is try a bunch of stuff and they talk to other people, find out what they like. When I was a teenager, this process screened out heroin because no one liked it back then, so people were not smoking pot and saying, hey I want some heroin now. They were saying, don't ever bring heroin around here. They didn't want that stuff in their homes and it was enough to get someone shunned. I knew people who threatened shunning if someone brought it to their homes even though they liked weed with resin, which is pretty strong stuff, and ecstacy.
Weed is one of the substances people who experiment try. They experiment and this is what can get them addicted to substances like opioids which there are many different varieties, like hydrocodone, oxycontin and methadone. The illegal variety is heroin but the more popular where I live are the legal opioids because people mistrust the way heroin looks and would rather have something that looks clean. Heroin is only a last resort, like when there's a crack down on sources for pills.
The truth about opioids, and I had an Rx for a bottle full once, is they aren't that exciting. They can help with physical pain and psychological demoralization but when I took them I didn't feel like it was the best thing in the world and like it was something I had to have everyday, at least not with Percocet.

Weed might actually prevent people from moving on to other drugs, if it is available and they don't have a fear of going to jail over it. That way they can just smoke it when they feel like it, it's a cheap thrill and it might actually fulfill that need to be doing something like that so they can be satisfied with smoking or ingesting it or whatever.

As far as what weed does to the mind, with resin it's not worse than being drunk. Same sort of thing. Hemp-type weed doesn't even have an effect. It does nothing. So it can't be worse than alcohol yet look at what people have to go through just for possessing or selling it. Even some legal drugs are worse than it is, like Oxycontin, yet if you can get a pill mill doctor to write you an Rx for Oxycontin, you have a perfectly legal supply you won't get in trouble for.


Heroin is a dangerous drug, I do agree, but it's also a big source of profit for drug cartels, mainly owing to its illegality. If it were legalized, addicts would have a much easier time seeking treatment as they wouldn't be at risk of being judged by law enforcement. As well, they would have a legal way to get their "fix" without giving money to organized crime, and this is essential since quitting heroin cold turkey is a baaaaaaaaaad idea which can have dire consequences. Of course, the packaging would have to have all sorts of warnings for potential users.

Now, if some new user decided to OD on this newly legalized heroin, I'd just see it as chlorination of the gene pool. :roll:



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

07 Sep 2015, 6:50 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Grebels wrote:
I've seen two many young kids looking older than me due to heroin. However, the discussion is about weed. Does smoking pot lead to taking hard drugs? I've seen cases where it definitely has. Why should a man feel the need to smoke mariuana in the toilet at work knowing full well he'd get sacked on the spot if caught? People say it isn't addictive.


I brought up heroin in response to the suggestion all drugs should be legal which I don't support.

As far as weed leading to harder drugs, I doubt the notion people start out with weed then go onto other things. I think what they do is try a bunch of stuff and they talk to other people, find out what they like. When I was a teenager, this process screened out heroin because no one liked it back then, so people were not smoking pot and saying, hey I want some heroin now. They were saying, don't ever bring heroin around here. They didn't want that stuff in their homes and it was enough to get someone shunned. I knew people who threatened shunning if someone brought it to their homes even though they liked weed with resin, which is pretty strong stuff, and ecstacy.
Weed is one of the substances people who experiment try. They experiment and this is what can get them addicted to substances like opioids which there are many different varieties, like hydrocodone, oxycontin and methadone. The illegal variety is heroin but the more popular where I live are the legal opioids because people mistrust the way heroin looks and would rather have something that looks clean. Heroin is only a last resort, like when there's a crack down on sources for pills.
The truth about opioids, and I had an Rx for a bottle full once, is they aren't that exciting. They can help with physical pain and psychological demoralization but when I took them I didn't feel like it was the best thing in the world and like it was something I had to have everyday, at least not with Percocet.

Weed might actually prevent people from moving on to other drugs, if it is available and they don't have a fear of going to jail over it. That way they can just smoke it when they feel like it, it's a cheap thrill and it might actually fulfill that need to be doing something like that so they can be satisfied with smoking or ingesting it or whatever.

As far as what weed does to the mind, with resin it's not worse than being drunk. Same sort of thing. Hemp-type weed doesn't even have an effect. It does nothing. So it can't be worse than alcohol yet look at what people have to go through just for possessing or selling it. Even some legal drugs are worse than it is, like Oxycontin, yet if you can get a pill mill doctor to write you an Rx for Oxycontin, you have a perfectly legal supply you won't get in trouble for.


Heroin is a dangerous drug, I do agree, but it's also a big source of profit for drug cartels, mainly owing to its illegality. If it were legalized, addicts would have a much easier time seeking treatment as they wouldn't be at risk of being judged by law enforcement. As well, they would have a legal way to get their "fix" without giving money to organized crime, and this is essential since quitting heroin cold turkey is a baaaaaaaaaad idea which can have dire consequences. Of course, the packaging would have to have all sorts of warnings for potential users.

Now, if some new user decided to OD on this newly legalized heroin, I'd just see it as chlorination of the gene pool. :roll:



You can give them access to treatment for OPIOID addiction without legalizing a thing and since most addicted to opioids do not choose heroin as their drug, there's no need to legalize heroin. Instead of sending heroin addicts to prison, send them to rehab. The answer is treatment, not legalizing. We already have legalized Opioids so there's no need to do any legalizing and it doesn't help matters. If you legalized heroin "organized crime" would keep selling it regardless. There wouldn't be any penalties for possessing or selling and if they did penalize someone for manufacturing it, it wouldn't truly be legal, would it?
If you did legalize it you would condone a drug that has done nothing but kill thousands of people around the world. Do you really want to say that should be legal? Well then why have laws? Make murder legal because this is what you are doing. Why should murder be illegal if you say a drug that kills so many shouldn't have any laws regarding it's sale or possession?



mr_bigmouth_502
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,995
Location: Alberta, Canada

07 Sep 2015, 8:23 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Grebels wrote:
I've seen two many young kids looking older than me due to heroin. However, the discussion is about weed. Does smoking pot lead to taking hard drugs? I've seen cases where it definitely has. Why should a man feel the need to smoke mariuana in the toilet at work knowing full well he'd get sacked on the spot if caught? People say it isn't addictive.


I brought up heroin in response to the suggestion all drugs should be legal which I don't support.

As far as weed leading to harder drugs, I doubt the notion people start out with weed then go onto other things. I think what they do is try a bunch of stuff and they talk to other people, find out what they like. When I was a teenager, this process screened out heroin because no one liked it back then, so people were not smoking pot and saying, hey I want some heroin now. They were saying, don't ever bring heroin around here. They didn't want that stuff in their homes and it was enough to get someone shunned. I knew people who threatened shunning if someone brought it to their homes even though they liked weed with resin, which is pretty strong stuff, and ecstacy.
Weed is one of the substances people who experiment try. They experiment and this is what can get them addicted to substances like opioids which there are many different varieties, like hydrocodone, oxycontin and methadone. The illegal variety is heroin but the more popular where I live are the legal opioids because people mistrust the way heroin looks and would rather have something that looks clean. Heroin is only a last resort, like when there's a crack down on sources for pills.
The truth about opioids, and I had an Rx for a bottle full once, is they aren't that exciting. They can help with physical pain and psychological demoralization but when I took them I didn't feel like it was the best thing in the world and like it was something I had to have everyday, at least not with Percocet.

Weed might actually prevent people from moving on to other drugs, if it is available and they don't have a fear of going to jail over it. That way they can just smoke it when they feel like it, it's a cheap thrill and it might actually fulfill that need to be doing something like that so they can be satisfied with smoking or ingesting it or whatever.

As far as what weed does to the mind, with resin it's not worse than being drunk. Same sort of thing. Hemp-type weed doesn't even have an effect. It does nothing. So it can't be worse than alcohol yet look at what people have to go through just for possessing or selling it. Even some legal drugs are worse than it is, like Oxycontin, yet if you can get a pill mill doctor to write you an Rx for Oxycontin, you have a perfectly legal supply you won't get in trouble for.


Heroin is a dangerous drug, I do agree, but it's also a big source of profit for drug cartels, mainly owing to its illegality. If it were legalized, addicts would have a much easier time seeking treatment as they wouldn't be at risk of being judged by law enforcement. As well, they would have a legal way to get their "fix" without giving money to organized crime, and this is essential since quitting heroin cold turkey is a baaaaaaaaaad idea which can have dire consequences. Of course, the packaging would have to have all sorts of warnings for potential users.

Now, if some new user decided to OD on this newly legalized heroin, I'd just see it as chlorination of the gene pool. :roll:



You can give them access to treatment for OPIOID addiction without legalizing a thing and since most addicted to opioids do not choose heroin as their drug, there's no need to legalize heroin. Instead of sending heroin addicts to prison, send them to rehab. The answer is treatment, not legalizing. We already have legalized Opioids so there's no need to do any legalizing and it doesn't help matters. If you legalized heroin "organized crime" would keep selling it regardless. There wouldn't be any penalties for possessing or selling and if they did penalize someone for manufacturing it, it wouldn't truly be legal, would it?
If you did legalize it you would condone a drug that has done nothing but kill thousands of people around the world. Do you really want to say that should be legal? Well then why have laws? Make murder legal because this is what you are doing. Why should murder be illegal if you say a drug that kills so many shouldn't have any laws regarding it's sale or possession?


It's about taking money away from organized crime. There's a demand for heroin for recreational use, and if people aren't going to get it from legal sources, they'll turn to illegal ones. It's unfortunate, but it's true. If a legal alternative exists that's more convenient than the illegal one, people will turn to it. The war on drugs so far has been a failure, except for the drug lords and corrupt police and politicians profiting from it.

People like getting messed up, damn the consequences. It's just human nature. Legalizing all drugs would ultimately harm less people than keeping them illegal. And again, if some idiot decides to OD on a speedball of his newly legalized heroin and cocaine, then it's just chlorination of the gene pool.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

07 Sep 2015, 9:04 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

It's about taking money away from organized crime. There's a demand for heroin for recreational use, and if people aren't going to get it from legal sources, they'll turn to illegal ones. It's unfortunate, but it's true. If a legal alternative exists that's more convenient than the illegal one, people will turn to it. The war on drugs so far has been a failure, except for the drug lords and corrupt police and politicians profiting from it.

People like getting messed up, damn the consequences. It's just human nature. Legalizing all drugs would ultimately harm less people than keeping them illegal. And again, if some idiot decides to OD on a speedball of his newly legalized heroin and cocaine, then it's just chlorination of the gene pool.


There's already a legal source called Oxycontin otherwise demand for heroin would be higher.
Legalizing heroin wouldn't change a thing. People would still OD. Drug dealers would still make money just like they do now. Legalizing it makes no difference.
As for marijuana, legalizing it would keep some of these people out of prisons for a drug, in some cases, does pretty much nothing but if they get caught with it, even if they have a lousy strain of it that has virtually no effect, they still go to jail for years and it doesn't kill you. Supposedly, it's not addictive. The effects are no worse than alcohol, even with the stronger stuff. People could make money off it and if everyone was allowed to grow it, there wouldn't be a demand for it anyway. So what's the big deal? Mistletoe grows on trees and it's poison so you can tell people not to touch that marijuana plant just like you tell them not to touch mistletoe. So far, no one has felt the need to outlaw mistletoe. Some of them will listen and not touch the marijuana. My aunt new people in college who smoked mistletoe because they were bored and wanted to see what it would do so you are always going to have that class of people who just do dumb things and that's all they want to do. They think it's cool to smoke mistletoe.
People should be allowed to grow their own marijuana. It's easy to do. Some hunters were just busted for using pot as their bird shield even though they were poaching so it's everywhere. What's the big deal?



mr_bigmouth_502
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,995
Location: Alberta, Canada

07 Sep 2015, 11:34 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

It's about taking money away from organized crime. There's a demand for heroin for recreational use, and if people aren't going to get it from legal sources, they'll turn to illegal ones. It's unfortunate, but it's true. If a legal alternative exists that's more convenient than the illegal one, people will turn to it. The war on drugs so far has been a failure, except for the drug lords and corrupt police and politicians profiting from it.

People like getting messed up, damn the consequences. It's just human nature. Legalizing all drugs would ultimately harm less people than keeping them illegal. And again, if some idiot decides to OD on a speedball of his newly legalized heroin and cocaine, then it's just chlorination of the gene pool.


There's already a legal source called Oxycontin otherwise demand for heroin would be higher.
Legalizing heroin wouldn't change a thing. People would still OD. Drug dealers would still make money just like they do now. Legalizing it makes no difference.
As for marijuana, legalizing it would keep some of these people out of prisons for a drug, in some cases, does pretty much nothing but if they get caught with it, even if they have a lousy strain of it that has virtually no effect, they still go to jail for years and it doesn't kill you. Supposedly, it's not addictive. The effects are no worse than alcohol, even with the stronger stuff. People could make money off it and if everyone was allowed to grow it, there wouldn't be a demand for it anyway. So what's the big deal? Mistletoe grows on trees and it's poison so you can tell people not to touch that marijuana plant just like you tell them not to touch mistletoe. So far, no one has felt the need to outlaw mistletoe. Some of them will listen and not touch the marijuana. My aunt new people in college who smoked mistletoe because they were bored and wanted to see what it would do so you are always going to have that class of people who just do dumb things and that's all they want to do. They think it's cool to smoke mistletoe.
People should be allowed to grow their own marijuana. It's easy to do. Some hunters were just busted for using pot as their bird shield even though they were poaching so it's everywhere. What's the big deal?


Oxycontin is not the same drug. It's in the same class, but it's not diacetylmorphine. Also, it's still a controlled substance, so people have to go through alternative channels to abuse it. Not that I'm encouraging abuse, but there are people who buy Oxycontin from drug dealers, just like heroin.

Anyway, I don't see what the big deal is with hunters growing pot, but I definitely think they deserve to be locked up for poaching. THAT is something I'm opposed to.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 31,279
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

08 Sep 2015, 2:16 am

glebel wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
glebel wrote:
I personally don't like drugs at all. I do like to drink beer and the occasional glass of wine with a good meal. I think that moderation in all things is the only rational approach. If we're talking about regulation, restrict access to hard liquors along with hard drugs. I wouldn't mind going to a little extra effort to get the cognac and the dark rum that I sometimes use in cooking.



tried it, didn't work, ended up being an epic failure

just like the War On Drugs has now turned out to be

stop trying to control what someone willingly puts into their own body

I didn't say that I advocated regulation of hard alcohol, I said IF you had to. And as far as hard drugs go, anything that leads to crime, and they do, is bad for society and hence is bad for us. This, however, is a problem for you flatlanders, not for me as I have 7-1/2 acres and a clear field of fire. :roll:


I am confused you're saying if one ingests any 'hard drug' they will without a doubt go and commit a crime because they took that drug? If so that isn't quite how it works, and really depends more on the specific drug and the individual taking it as well as other factors.

Also you cannot possibly 'not like drugs at all' if you like beer and wine....or even coffee, since two have alcohol and one has caffeine which are both drugs.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 31,279
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

08 Sep 2015, 2:35 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

It's about taking money away from organized crime. There's a demand for heroin for recreational use, and if people aren't going to get it from legal sources, they'll turn to illegal ones. It's unfortunate, but it's true. If a legal alternative exists that's more convenient than the illegal one, people will turn to it. The war on drugs so far has been a failure, except for the drug lords and corrupt police and politicians profiting from it.

People like getting messed up, damn the consequences. It's just human nature. Legalizing all drugs would ultimately harm less people than keeping them illegal. And again, if some idiot decides to OD on a speedball of his newly legalized heroin and cocaine, then it's just chlorination of the gene pool.


There's already a legal source called Oxycontin otherwise demand for heroin would be higher.
Legalizing heroin wouldn't change a thing. People would still OD. Drug dealers would still make money just like they do now. Legalizing it makes no difference.
As for marijuana, legalizing it would keep some of these people out of prisons for a drug, in some cases, does pretty much nothing but if they get caught with it, even if they have a lousy strain of it that has virtually no effect, they still go to jail for years and it doesn't kill you. Supposedly, it's not addictive. The effects are no worse than alcohol, even with the stronger stuff. People could make money off it and if everyone was allowed to grow it, there wouldn't be a demand for it anyway. So what's the big deal? Mistletoe grows on trees and it's poison so you can tell people not to touch that marijuana plant just like you tell them not to touch mistletoe. So far, no one has felt the need to outlaw mistletoe. Some of them will listen and not touch the marijuana. My aunt new people in college who smoked mistletoe because they were bored and wanted to see what it would do so you are always going to have that class of people who just do dumb things and that's all they want to do. They think it's cool to smoke mistletoe.
People should be allowed to grow their own marijuana. It's easy to do. Some hunters were just busted for using pot as their bird shield even though they were poaching so it's everywhere. What's the big deal?


Oxycontin is not that easy to get....as far as I know its pretty hard to go waltzing into a doctors office and request 'oxycontin' and immediately have a prescription in your hand. It is prescribed for severe pain so you'd either have to be a really good faker....or have very severe consistent pain. Otherwise much easier to get heroin off some person on the street than it is to get oxys from the doctor could probably go and do that now if I really wanted(but I don't). Unless person on the street has oxys but then its not legal for 'you' to possess them since they weren't prescribed to you by a doctor.



Grebels
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Mar 2012
Age: 80
Gender: Male
Posts: 545

08 Sep 2015, 5:35 am

Ana,some time ago I spent three years living in a project for homeless people. I saw the heartbreak of people destroying their lives. They tried to persuade the kids to stay off alcohol and drugs. I do take your point, but the fact is some people have addictive personalities. I'd be wrong to use that as an argument that most cannabis users will move on to hard drugs.

I once attended a Social Services meeting where the drug squad of two detectives came to give a talk about drugs. The sergeant produced a big block of hemp and lit up to pass it round. It was mighty strong stuff and I could understand the attraction.



mr_bigmouth_502
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2013
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,995
Location: Alberta, Canada

08 Sep 2015, 5:36 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:

It's about taking money away from organized crime. There's a demand for heroin for recreational use, and if people aren't going to get it from legal sources, they'll turn to illegal ones. It's unfortunate, but it's true. If a legal alternative exists that's more convenient than the illegal one, people will turn to it. The war on drugs so far has been a failure, except for the drug lords and corrupt police and politicians profiting from it.

People like getting messed up, damn the consequences. It's just human nature. Legalizing all drugs would ultimately harm less people than keeping them illegal. And again, if some idiot decides to OD on a speedball of his newly legalized heroin and cocaine, then it's just chlorination of the gene pool.


There's already a legal source called Oxycontin otherwise demand for heroin would be higher.
Legalizing heroin wouldn't change a thing. People would still OD. Drug dealers would still make money just like they do now. Legalizing it makes no difference.
As for marijuana, legalizing it would keep some of these people out of prisons for a drug, in some cases, does pretty much nothing but if they get caught with it, even if they have a lousy strain of it that has virtually no effect, they still go to jail for years and it doesn't kill you. Supposedly, it's not addictive. The effects are no worse than alcohol, even with the stronger stuff. People could make money off it and if everyone was allowed to grow it, there wouldn't be a demand for it anyway. So what's the big deal? Mistletoe grows on trees and it's poison so you can tell people not to touch that marijuana plant just like you tell them not to touch mistletoe. So far, no one has felt the need to outlaw mistletoe. Some of them will listen and not touch the marijuana. My aunt new people in college who smoked mistletoe because they were bored and wanted to see what it would do so you are always going to have that class of people who just do dumb things and that's all they want to do. They think it's cool to smoke mistletoe.
People should be allowed to grow their own marijuana. It's easy to do. Some hunters were just busted for using pot as their bird shield even though they were poaching so it's everywhere. What's the big deal?


Oxycontin is not that easy to get....as far as I know its pretty hard to go waltzing into a doctors office and request 'oxycontin' and immediately have a prescription in your hand. It is prescribed for severe pain so you'd either have to be a really good faker....or have very severe consistent pain. Otherwise much easier to get heroin off some person on the street than it is to get oxys from the doctor could probably go and do that now if I really wanted(but I don't). Unless person on the street has oxys but then its not legal for 'you' to possess them since they weren't prescribed to you by a doctor.


This.