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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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11 Sep 2015, 1:20 pm

When discussing Israel, people who side with the Palestinians in Gaza ignore the fact the Nazi ties and their desire to destroy the Jews, the same desire the Nazis had and implemented in The Final Solution.

Why ignore the Nazi connection between Arafat and his followers?

Arafat is related to the Mufti of Jerusalem who was a Nazi conspirator and wished to implement the Final Solution in Palestine during World War ii.



0_equals_true
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11 Sep 2015, 2:15 pm

Being related to someone isn't a crime in itself. Most of us are related to Genghis Khan.

Also Gandhi also said positive thing about Hitler, but this was before his true intentions were known.

The Soviet Union had just as much influence on anti-antisemitism in the middle east as the Nazis did.

That said I'm not a supporter of either side, and also there were many opportunities to make peace squandered.

What I think what has been really bad is the internationalization of the whole situation.

Quite frankly there are far too many armchair experts, and the two side are far to used to these foreign "mediators", which are part of the problem not the solution.

The US particularly needs to come up with foreign policy based on US citizens interest rather than foreign policy by proxy. It also need to crack down on dual citizenship in government. My grandfather was forced to give up his US citizenship becuase of dual citizenship. Now people who's loyalty to which government is not known, are in political office.

The Palestinian's need to realize that they are more complicit in their own suffering particularly in Gaza, that they admit. Th myth is this conflict is about population and general landmass. The reality is that don't stack up if you consider that in 1946 Lebanon has a smaller territory with more people (and more diverse at that). it is really a contest of superiority, and we should treat them like the children they are, by not humouring them.



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11 Sep 2015, 8:35 pm

Mein Kampf is one of the best-selling books of all time within the so-called "Palestinian territories" (and most of the Islamic world). They love Hitler because of what he did to the Jews, and they are not shy about it either.



blauSamstag
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11 Sep 2015, 10:51 pm

Palestinians are hardly nazis. They are just having an emotional reaction to the situation they're in.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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11 Sep 2015, 11:00 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Being related to someone isn't a crime in itself. Most of us are related to Genghis Khan.

Also Gandhi also said positive thing about Hitler, but this was before his true intentions were known.

The Soviet Union had just as much influence on anti-antisemitism in the middle east as the Nazis did.

That said I'm not a supporter of either side, and also there were many opportunities to make peace squandered.

What I think what has been really bad is the internationalization of the whole situation.

Quite frankly there are far too many armchair experts, and the two side are far to used to these foreign "mediators", which are part of the problem not the solution.

The US particularly needs to come up with foreign policy based on US citizens interest rather than foreign policy by proxy. It also need to crack down on dual citizenship in government. My grandfather was forced to give up his US citizenship becuase of dual citizenship. Now people who's loyalty to which government is not known, are in political office.

The Palestinian's need to realize that they are more complicit in their own suffering particularly in Gaza, that they admit. Th myth is this conflict is about population and general landmass. The reality is that don't stack up if you consider that in 1946 Lebanon has a smaller territory with more people (and more diverse at that). it is really a contest of superiority, and we should treat them like the children they are, by not humouring them.



Uh, I think I might be 40 millionth cousin 4th removed from Ghengis Khan while Arafat's mother was Hamida Khalifa al-Husseini. The Mufti's name was Haj Amin Al Husseini and Arafat was Muhammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Husseini.

It's been many, many generations, too numerous to count, since I or anyone on either side of my family have been a Khan.

Arafat idolized his relative so it went beyond a casual and randomly distant relative.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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11 Sep 2015, 11:12 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Palestinians are hardly nazis. They are just having an emotional reaction to the situation they're in.


Regardless of your personal opinion regarding Jews, they have a right to exist like any other ethnic group or members of a religion, however you want to view them. Their small state is hardly a threat to the millions of Arabs and Shiites in the Middle East. In fact, it is the Jews who have been in the most danger from others.



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11 Sep 2015, 11:19 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Palestinians are hardly nazis. They are just having an emotional reaction to the situation they're in.


Regardless of your personal opinion regarding Jews, they have a right to exist like any other ethnic group or members of a religion, however you want to view them. Their small state is hardly a threat to the millions of Arabs and Shiites in the Middle East. In fact, it is the Jews who have been in the most danger from others.


Settlements in disputed territory are an act of war.

Israel has killed five times as many palestinians than the palestinians have killed israelis.



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11 Sep 2015, 11:27 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Palestinians are hardly nazis. They are just having an emotional reaction to the situation they're in.


Regardless of your personal opinion regarding Jews, they have a right to exist like any other ethnic group or members of a religion, however you want to view them. Their small state is hardly a threat to the millions of Arabs and Shiites in the Middle East. In fact, it is the Jews who have been in the most danger from others.


Settlements in disputed territory are an act of war.

Israel has killed five times as many palestinians than the palestinians have killed israelis.


Quote:
On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly adopted Resolution 181 (also known as the Partition Resolution) that would divide Great Britain’s former Palestinian mandate into Jewish and Arab states in May 1948. Under the resolution, the area of religious significance surrounding Jerusalem would remain under international control administered by the United Nations. The Palestinian Arabs refused to recognize this arrangement, which they regarded as favorable to the Jews and unfair to the Arab population that would remain in Jewish territory under the partition. The United States sought a middle way by supporting the United Nations resolution, but also encouraging negotiations between Arabs and Jews in the Middle East.
https://history.state.gov/milestones/19 ... sraeli-war



blauSamstag
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11 Sep 2015, 11:34 pm

Yeah there's an internationally recognized thing called right of return.

Image



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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11 Sep 2015, 11:40 pm

They should have agreed to that plan and it would have given them a two state solution they are always demanding now. Why not just take it then and avoid all the hassle?



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11 Sep 2015, 11:46 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Their small state is hardly a threat to the millions of Arabs and Shiites in the Middle East. In fact, it is the Jews who have been in the most danger from others.

A-hem.

This is an acidemic paper I wrote on this subject. It is as un-biased as I could make it. It is also 100% factual witha work cited.

History of the Israeli and Palestinian conflict

Until the 1940’s, Israel was not a sovereign state; that changed in 1948, when the territory of Palestine was annexed to give a people without a land a new nation (“A History...”). However, the creation and the means of the establishment of Israel caused great turmoil. The conflict started with Jewish immigration in the pre-1940’s, and the Palestinian and Arab responses to those events. With the continuation by the newly formed United Nations and a resistance movement, and to the many wars that were fought over the decades. When observing the history of the conflict between Israel and Palestine, the conflict is not isolated to those two nations; instead, the conflict is between Israel and all its neighbors.
The beginning of the conflict started with the Jewish immigration and the Arab response. The Jews wanted their own country. Some of them met in Switzerland in 1897 and formed the “First Zionist Congress” (“A History…”). This shows that like most people, the Jews started out with good intentions: a need for a home. In 1917, the United Kingdom told the Zionist’s that they could have the territory in the region of modern day Palestine (Conflict in Israel….). This promise gave the Zionists the land they were searching for. The Jews did not waste time either: “Between 1920 and 1939, The Jewish population of Palestine increased by over 320,000 people.”(Conflict in Israel…). This high increase of Jewish population showed that many Jews wanted a land of their own, and they were willing to move from all over the world to do so.
Not everyone was pleased with the increase of Jewish population. Many Arabs in the area were so upset they began to riot. As the Jews were relocating to Palestine, they stole Palestinian property. In 1936, an extremely violent upheaval erupted (Conflict in Israel…). The Palestinian Arabs set up a committee in response to the British killing a governor . This committee wanted to shut down town governments, stop people from paying taxes, and asked for a ban on Jewish immigration (“Palestine Arab…). Not everybody wanted the Jews in Palestine, It did not help with the fact that the Jews stole the possessions and territory of the people living there. The Arabs went as far as telling people to not pay taxes, and shut down governments. In response to these events, a royal commission was issued in 1937 to divide Palestine in half. This was rejected by the Arabs ( A History…). Even though it seemed hopeless, and peace would not be had, there was still hope.
That hope came in the form of the United Nations. In 1947, the United Kingdom resigned the dilemma in Palestine to the new United Nations. The UK could not handle the situation after World War II and the Holocaust, that caused an increased immigration to Palestine (“A History…). This new change of power was for the better. In order to decide what to do: “The UN set up a special committee which recommended splitting the territory into separate Jewish and Palestinian states.” (A History…”). This action shows the United Nations drive to take control and fix this problem. On May 1948, Israel was established by the UN (“Conflict in Israel…”). This did not solve the problems the region was having; it only more.
These problems were in the form of the PLO and the 1967 war. In 1964 the Arab league formed the Palestinian Liberation Organization, or PLO for short (Katirai). The goal of the PLO was freedom from Israel. Because the PLO was founded by the Arab League, they had control over it, but Yasser Arafat took over in 1969 for a truly independent form of government (A History…). This form of organized resistance not only showed that the Palestinians wanted the Israelis gone, but the other countries in the Middle East wanted Israel gone as well.
This resistance boiled over into war in 1967, when thousands of troops surrounded Israeli borders, and many leaders pledged the demise of the country. In response to the threat of impending doom, Israel began rallying for war. Suddenly the Israeli military attacked. In a battle that lasted around an hour they crippled the Egyptian Air Force. Israel took the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza from Egypt. Later, Israel took the Golan Heights from Syria. This massive territory grab and multi-front war only lasted six days (Oren). This war proved that the existence of Israel was not welcomed in that area by many nations.
Even though all that happened in a mere 3 years during the 1960’s, more incidents happened in the 1970’s. The first major incident happened on October 6,1973. Syria and Egypt launched a sneak attack on Israel, catching them by surprise. This attack was on Yom Kippur, a Jewish holiday that included a 25 hour fast. Egypt and Syria made territorial gains with modern weaponry that they received from the Soviets. After those gains, Iraq joined the war, and Jordan began to backup Syria. In about four days, Israel began to fight back with its full military force. The retaliation of Israel came at a high price. They lost many troops and valuable supplies. Israel later received military equipment from the U.S.A to continue to fight. Later, on October 25, a cease-fire was achieved in the UN (“Yom Kippur War”). From October 6 to October 25, Israel fought its neighbors, not just the people who they stole land and property from, but from most of their Arab neighbors. War was not the only major event in the decade, Israel also had internal affairs.
After the Yom Kippur War, the government was lambasted, or heavily criticized, for the military being taken by surprise (Yom Kippur War). No one, it seemed, was happy with the Yom Kippur war. Disaster struck the Arab nations and Israeli politics. Because of the lambasting, the Israeli Prime Minister resigned from his office. In 1977, Israeli elections took place, and the political group called Herut took over political control. They believed in creating another “ ‘Greater Israel’ ” (A History…”) and taking over large amounts of territory (A History…”). Even after they were granted a country, the Israelis were still trying to take control of a large area with people already living there.
After the turmoil of the 1970’s there was more destruction in the 1980’s. The first disaster was with the Israeli attack on Lebanon. In 1982, Israeli troops attacked Palestinian radical military bases. The Israeli soldiers reached the city of Beirut and let the PLO militants leave, with only the civilians to occupy the city. While they occupied the city a militant group of Israel's allies massacred the civilians. Later in an investigation, it was found that the massacre was preventable by the defence minister. Later the minister resigned (“A History...”). A tragic event occurred and in the fight innocents were lost, along with Israel’s dignity.
More violence occurred in the 1980’s with the Intifada. According to a Palestinian-biased source, the start of the first Intifada is speculated to have started with the killing of four Palestinians at a check-point (Karkar). This contradicts an Israeli-biased source who claims that: “False charges of Israeli atrocities and instigation... played an important role in starting the intifada” (Israel’s Wars…). The Israeli-biased source also stated that an Israeli was murdered while shopping. The four, before mentioned individuals, supposedly died in a car accident in response to the murder (Israel’s Wars…). These events later sparked a general uprising, which included: “civil disobedience, general strikes, boycotts on Israeli products, graffiti, and barricades...[and] stone-throwing” (“A History...”). This bloody ordeal, even though very depressing, lead to peace. Later, the government of Palestine (in exile) decided to accept the 1947 UN Resolution 181. This was a resolution that was earlier rejected by the Palestinians due to it not giving them all of Palestine. The government also rejected terrorism and called on Israel to follow other UN resolutions (“A History...”).This one ordeal and the huge amount of hatred goes to show a small piece of the situation, a piece that is just a fraction of the the whole conflict between Israel and its neighbors.
After the horrors and death in the 1980’s came a more peaceful 1990’s. In 1991, Israel met with many of its neighbors, excluding Palestine, because their leadership was under the PLO. Israel branded the PLO as terrorists and would not negotiate with them in a peace conference. Because of that, Jordan combined their delegation with non-PLO member Palestinian delegates. The conference lead to the creation of bilateral conferences between Israel with Syria and Israel with Palestine/Jordan. After the summit, Israel stopped refusing to work with PLO participants. Later, they began secret talks about taking apart the Israeli occupation of Palestine and for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a nation (“A History...”). This was a wonderful start to a de-escalation of a horrible problem, but it did not last long.
Bombs destroyed the peace in the 1990’s. Radical Palestinians bombed the Israeli populace, while the Israeli soldiers killed the radicals. The peace talks were delayed, but not for long. In 1995, an agreement was made for the West Bank.The agreement split it up into three zones, (in either joint control or full control by Israel or Palestine.) Neither side was completely happy with the agreement, and so Jewish extremists killed their prime minister in protest to the agreement. Suicide bombings later took place in 1996. These bombings were from Muslims in the radical group called Hamas. Israel later shelled Lebanon to kill them (“A History...”). Peace was sought after, but it too was also a failure. No country wanted anything less than complete domination of the land and no one would get it.
Another form of resistance came in the 2000’s, it was the second Intifada. This Intifada also included demonstrations and other forms of resistance (Katirai). It also included acts of violence. Later in 2001, a new prime minister took control of Israel. The new minister “intensified existing policies such as assassinating Palestinian militants, air strikes and incursions into Palestinian self-rule areas” (“A History...”). Not only did Israel ramp up their attacks, the radical and extremist groups did as well (Katirai). This led to more death and destruction in an already desolated region and populace. This made the area a very hostile and unfriendly one, so much so that the attempts at peace by the U.S were all rejected (“A History...”). After all this time and progress, Israel still fights the Palestinians and vise versa.
It is a long history starting in 1897, that still continues. From the Arab riots in the early 1920’s and 30’s, to the first Intifada in the 1980’s, there has been a lot of violence. This violence did not just remain with Israel and Palestine, it was between all of Israel's neighbors. In the war of 1967, it was not just Israel and Palestine; it was Israel and Syria, Egypt, Palestine and so on. This is not just a history of one or two nations. It is a history of many nations; it is a history of the Jewish nation and their neighbors.








Works Cited
-PM me for it because site will not let me post URLs



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Sep 2015, 12:07 am

Er...yeah... the link I previously posted on the Arab/Isreali War talks about how several Middle Eastern countries sent troops into Israel in hopes of dismantling the Jewish State.

Here's an interesting link about the Passfield White Paper of 1930:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... field.html

This paper is what limited settlement in Palestine when the Nazis were attempting to deport European Jews to the area in order to create a Jewish State.

Jewish organizations worldwide protested this particular paper.



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12 Sep 2015, 12:23 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Palestinians are hardly nazis.

Islam and National Socialism share some essential characteristics. Most notable the conspiratorial hatred of Jews.



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12 Sep 2015, 12:34 am

Humanaut wrote:
Islam and National Socialism share some essential characteristics.

I see, because the Palestinians stole their own land, killed their own innocent people and murder and terrorize Palestinians for fun? I have been there. I have meet Israelis and Palestinians. I have also herd of all the horrible things the Isralies do to the Palestinians. So by comparison the Jews are more like the Nazies than the PLO.



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12 Sep 2015, 12:47 am

A snippet from an interesting Wikipedia article on the Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world:

"The Palestinian Arab and Nazi political leaders said that they had a common cause against International Jewry. The most significant practical effect of Nazi policy on Palestine between 1933 and 1938, however, was to radically increase the immigration rate of German and other European Jews and to double the population of Palestinian Jews. The Mufti had sent messages to Berlin through Heinrich Wolf, the German Consul in Jerusalem endorsing the advent of the new regime as early as March, 1933, and was enthusiastic over the Nazi anti-Jewish policy, and particularly the anti-Jewish boycott in Germany."