I will never understand them...call me but don't call me

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So I found out someone I knew from many years ago, who was actually a very close friend, lives where I live. The person contacted ME originally and told me to call them, because normally they are alone all week long with nothing to do. So I did. I have called them 2 times in over 4 weeks. The first week we went out immediately, the 2nd week we went out as a group and the last 2 weeks we haven't really seen each other. I contacted them and said "hey, sorry I'm lost...we're all lost...so much to do, but hope all is well". Their response "I'm sorry, but I am very busy during the week". huh? what? And yes, the way it was said was like "leave me alone, I'm not lost, I'm busy". So here I am, I just do NOT understand these people. This is not the first person this has happened with obviously. But you know, I am tired of their BS games. Say what you mean and all will be fine. So now I decided I will not call or contact anyone else. If they want to talk to me, they can call me. I am done. Back to my shell and living alone and only for my husband and kiddo, everyone else can take a hike.

What is it with people? Why is it ok to be such liars and hypocrites? Just had to vent.

PS By the way, I find it amusing that women do this...many of whom have been married and divorced a few times...they claim that I am lucky because my husband is still around, he doesn't play these games...hmmm and I am thinking "funny, he's still around because I NEVER played such games with him either...you are the type to play these games with other women, therefore, you probably play the same games with men and then complain that they are not honest and play games"

I hear you.

I was once best friends with a married couple. We were all in graduate school together. Teri was in my ed psych class and her husband, Eric was in engineering. We lived in cheap apartments and our idea of a "big night out" was to splurge and go watch a movie. We'd all buy large drinks and would share a bucket of popcorn between us. It was great fun.

A few years passed and Teri became a housewife while her husband started in on the ground floor of a new engineering company.

We'd get together about twice a month and every time I saw them, Eric would brag about how much money he was making and how large his 401K was. I was happy for both of them because they were my friends.

A few more years passed and I found myself working at an American school in Saudi Arabia ... and guess what? I was now making MORE than Eric. My 401K was larger than his and although I had to file an annual tax return with the IRS, my overseas income was tax exempt ... and there was NO income tax in Saudi Arabia. What a deal!

On top of that, the company I was working for gave me $7500 a year in annual travel expenses for my 30 day vacation ... so I'd fly around the world, staying at nice hotels and upon request, the concierge of each hotel would always find me a personal driver who could give me private tours.

It was great.

Since Eric had always made a point out of telling me how well he was doing, I told him via a letter how well I was doing. I didn't mean anything by it. I wasn't annoyed that Eric had done so well. Why would he be annoyed at how well I was doing?

When I returned stateside on vacation, I made arrangements to meet up with my friends ... and then something strange happened. Eric said that he wouldn't be able to get together with me because of a project he was working on. His wife Teri initially agreed to meet me for lunch but then she abruptly called to cancel. When I asked her what was going on, she simply said that she didn't feel like having lunch with me. When I asked her what was wrong and/or what I had done wrong, there was silence on the other end. She eventually hung up on me.

Eric and Terri were my two closest friends in graduate school ... but Eric as it turned out was extremely competitive. He couldn't accept the fact that I, a "mere teacher" was making more money than he was. He couldn't accept the idea that my 401K and my overall benefits package was larger than his.

In the end, his competitiveness killed our friendship.

I don't bear Terri or Eric any ill will and I'm sorry they were upset with my success but I won't apologize for being successful. I spent years hearing how successful Eric was. When they bought a new home, they invited me over because they told me that I HAD to SEE IT. When Eric traded in his old compact for a brand new SUV, I was told that I HAD to SEE IT. They even insisted upon giving me a ride.

I was happy for Eric's success. I don't understand why he couldn't be happy with mine.

Oh well ... (sigh)

Wow, your post sounds so much like something else I have been seeing for quite a while. Of course, many claimed it just wasn't true, but yes, it is.

My husband and I moved into a nice house about 11 years ago. Every single person who was our friend, or so I thought, that would visit, would always say "oh, wow, but you guys got this expensive house, this is too expensive, blah, blah, blah"...mind you, we our mortgage was MUCH less than it was in our previous house, but being in a different country, the house was bigger because our taxes were much lower. But it was just always the same story from people whom I thought were our friends. No, we never said "hey, you have to come look at our house", but rather we would invite them over to our house for get togethers, just like we were invited to theirs. Some who came from out of town came to visit, etc.

Fast forward a few years, we moved from that house into a tiny apartment in our previous country. Sure enough, a couple who would always tell us how it was ridiculous we had such an expensive house, such a big house, etc. had moved into a BIGGER and more expensive house and then it seemed like that was not an issue. Another friend who made less than 1/2 of what either my husband or I made, moved into a new house and bragged about HER house, but somehow it was acceptable of her to do so. Of course, we were genuinely happy for them for a while, until I started telling my husband "isn't it funny? when we get a new house, they have nothing truly positive to say, it all seems like it's just too big for us, too expensive for us, etc...but when the tables are turned, then they can't wait to truly show off their house, etc..."

I am tired. I am sick and tired of people like this. I am now realizing that is the MAJORITY of people, neurotypicals, NOT the minority as I thought. I thought we just had jealous friends, now I am realizing that they are really not any different than most people. I am sick to my stomach over it. I don't want any people like this in my life anymore. I'd rather be alone than have people who act this way around me.

With just a few minor changes, this could be about the tensions between my relative and I ...

I'm sorry they were upset with my success but I won't apologize for being successful. I spent years hearing how successful they were was. When they bought a new home, they invited me over because they told me that I HAD to SEE IT. When they traded in his old compact for a brand new SUV, I was told that I HAD to SEE IT. They even insisted upon giving me a ride.

... almost word-for-word, my experiences with my relatives.

Hmmm, I wonder if this showing-off of success has anything to do with establishing a pecking order. Or maybe it's for narcissistic purposes, to be admired but then not being willing to admire another? Maybe none? Or maybe both?

BTW lots of people get jealous easily. I learned in school that you can prevent a lot of BS if you just don't tell anyone that you got an A on the test. Same thing with money or any other accomplishments.

I think it's more of a pecking-order thing.

For instance, if a child has been bullied, he or she is held in contempt by everyone else; but if that child fights back and beats the ever-loving snot out of the bully, then that child will be hated by everyone for upsetting the pecking order.

(Been there, done that, dealt with the aftermath.)

So, when my relatives established the pecking order where I was somewhere near the bottom because of severe financial setbacks, and I came back a decade later with an engineering degree, a nice home, and investments in real-estate, they made it a point to say that I had just gotten "lucky" and that I was still a dweeb. They don't even "like" me on Facebook!



Yeah ... once a pecking order is established, you risk being cast out of the order entirely if you don't "know your place" and stay there.

I have known such people too and it does have everything to do with the perception of a pecking order.

I think this is largely the result of patterns 53 and 54 identified in Ian Ford's book "A Field Guide to Earthlings" and discussed by Rocket123 here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=232428&start=60#p5464483

These patterns really do explain a lot.

A former boss was proud of the gold watch he'd been awarded for being "Manager of The Year". If anyone questioned his decisions, he'd point to his watch and remind us of what it represented.

Then someone gave me a watch that looked the same as his. The first day I wore it to work was the day that the boss started questioning my work. He would nit-pick every little detail and criticize its quality, and he would do it in front of everyone.

Finally, he said something like, "I don't know what you got your watch for; but I got mine for being 'Manager of The Year'!"

"Well sir, I got mine for being a loving husband and father, and for being an all-around nice guy."

Yeah ... I didn't last much longer at that place; but it was worth it.

From Rocket's thread:

Your manager probably thought your watch was devaluing his in some way and he was "losing face."

(edited to remove ambiguous and confusing language)

Ah, yes that reminds me of something that happened more recently:

I wanted to take the bus downtown. Usually the bus driver takes a break in a different location before letting passengers in at another spot a few steps further down the hill.

So I sat at the station where the bus was supposed to hold and the driver just tries to drive past me, I had to stand up and he barely noticed me. But he stopped and opened the door and was like I'm an idiot for not getting on the bus, and I started to explain to him step by step that the bus drives down a bit and then lets people in... and he completely ignored me and went mad like he's gonna get violent or something, saying "I'm the busdriver"... I got pissed at him and kinda taunted him a bit... but in the end I didn't really understand what was the deal with him.
Everything makes sense now.
LOL!

I actually think it does have to do with this pecking order thing that I had no idea truly existed until now I just consider everyone around me my equal... didn't realize there was a pecking order...

You are so right. I had not read that book until a couple of days ago. For years I just let it slide and didn't really notice it much, then I started waking up. Of course, when I said something to my NT husband he told me "they aren't like that"...sure, whatever...now he agrees. But it wasn't until a couple of days ago that I realized WHY it was happening, I just thought they were jealous type of people, which I also don't like, but now I like them even less.

This thread is ripe for dissecting social hierarchy...but everyone here has brains and already knows that, so I'll let it pass-- this time.

Social hierarchies and this silly need for ones upmanship which is played by all manner of people including supposed friends and/or "loving" relatives is absolutely ridiculous. This is part of the reason why I'm a reclusive introvert. I don't play these sorts of games with other people. If you're my friend and you're living in an expensive home and driving in a car that's bigger than my current bedroom, I will be GENUINELY HAPPY for you. Why? Because that's how I thought friends were supposed to be. You've got my back and I've got yours and if you need me for any reason at any time of the day or night, just give me a ring and I'll come running because that's what I thought real friendship was supposed to be like.

This other sort of friendship where we try to trump each other regarding who has the best this or that ... I don't get that at all. This is apparently another one of those damned unwritten NT social rules that makes no sense to me.

I mean geez ... I wish I could interview prospective friends at the outset and ask them pointblank if they're going to be a "bosom friend" I borrowed that phrase from Anne of Green Gables, the sort of friend who sticks with you through thick and thin ... or if that person wants to be a superficial fair weather friend who will drop me the moment that things hit the proverbial fan or if he/she feels that I am suddenly outperforming him/her in some competitive venue that I'm not familiar with.

I'm sorry to say that I've had a lot of fair weather friends and very few "bosom" friends who were true blue and loyal to a fault.

It's admittedly much easier to be a reclusive introvert.

(sigh)

Having read all of the posts in this thread, I've decided to tell you about my cousin, Curtis.

Curtis was a down on his luck business school graduate with an M.BA from one of the better universities in the States. I was working as a teacher in Saudi Arabia at the time and while visiting my relatives in the states, Curtis offered to take me out to dinner.

Over dinner he asked me how much I made. I told him. Instead of being happy for me, he asked me why I needed to make so much money. He accused me of being selfish for not giving most of what I made to charity.

Although I am normally not very confrontational, Curtis was family and so I told him that it was easy for him to talk because at age 33, he was still living at home with his Mom and Dad. He didn't have to pay rent. He didn't have to pay for utilities or homeowner's insurance. He didn't have to pay for upkeep and maintenance. He didn't even have to pay for groceries. He was living rent free ... so who was he to tell me how I should spend my money?

The little twerp began to cry and instead of being sympathetic, I was horribly annoyed.

Curtis went crying to his mommy after we got home and I got an earful from my Aunt who scolded me for not being more loving and supportive.

The twerp then got his guitar and being a Christian music buff, he began playing this incredibly stupid song that he made up on the spot. It went something like this:

Oh David ... your heart is so hard,
You should open it to the love of
JEEEESSSSSUUSSSSSSSSSSS,
and remember that Christ walked among the poor,
and share what he had with them
up to and including his life,
for he died on the cross forgiving our sins
which were mannnnnnnyyyyyyyy ..."

So fast forward several years and I'm back in the states and I'm down on my luck. State budget cuts had forced another round of teacher layoffs and I had just LOST my 3rd teaching job in 6 years.

By now, Curtis had turned his life around. He now owned a CHAIN of gelato stores and was well on his way towards becoming a multimillionaire. And did he give up most of his money to charity the way he had counseled me all those many years ago? NO! Did he offer me a job the way he's helped out other relatives? NO!

So what was all this stuff about remembering the poor and the downtrodden back when he was living with his parents? His convictions went out the window once he came into some money.

(sigh)

Now don't get me wrong. I AM DELIGHTED FOR MY COUSIN. He is after all, family ... but I also think that he's a big fat hypocrite. It is easy to talk about giving money to others when you don't have any of your own ... but when your proverbial ship comes in and you're living on Easy Street, it amazes me how quickly some people are willing to forget their moral convictions.

I honestly never thought of not being happy for any of my friends, etc. that were doing better, it actually wasn't even a thought to me like "oh, he's doing better, I should have X"...never. I too have had some people tell me that "you are doing very well, you should share your money..."...interesting. Let's see...as opposed to others where I live, who sue the school district all the time to get as much as they can for their kids, wether they need it or not (it's a loophole here, you sue, they are understaffed, you win automatically, so parents use the heck out of it)...I have NEVER asked for a DIME from the local school district for my child because I figured it was up to us to downsize, use OUR money and not take away from other kids in the community. That was a conscious choice we made, although we had neighbors who offered all kinds of free legal help, etc. and knew many people that could help us. I don't own a cell phone, we rent now, a very cheap place, etc. We pay all speech therapies for our son out of pocket, again, never took a dime from the schools for it. The people telling me we should share our wealth lol, are not willing to give up a bottle of Blue Moon beer and go down to drinking a Coors Light to help anyone, but somehow we should spend more of our money helping people. PS we already pay 33% of our income in income taxes plus 11.5% sales tax...we are of the 4% total population that pays ANY taxes where we live.