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NewTime
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18 Oct 2015, 9:59 pm

What do you think about people spanking animals? Like hitting their dog with a newspaper.



Kiriae
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19 Oct 2015, 5:01 am

I am guilty of this.

Sometimes if my cat suddenly bites and claws me while I am petting her I will pat her using my hand. The "you attack me, I attack you" reaction become quite automatic. But I am carefull not to use much force so I won't hurt the pet (the pat is firm but gentle) and I stop after first pat or two.
I believe I picked up this behaviour from my older cat - she also spanks the little one by patting her when she is acting out. And little one backs away and stops behaving badly then.

But it's not like I spank the cat so the cat is hurt, terrified or something.

The pat is just a "Stop that!" message in cats body language(which I understand surprisingly well). The cat reacts either by:
-freezing and staring at me ("stare fight"). It ends when one of us decides to give up by blinking/looking away or... decides it is actually a playtime. In the second case it ends with a play fight or a hiss(me or the cat, lol. I can hiss just like the cat) and walk away depending if we both want a play fight or not,
-getting away and going somewhere else, with tail wagging ("You pissed me off.")
-slowly blinking at me ("I am no danger to you. I like you."), then purring and cozing up.



InsomniaGrl
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19 Oct 2015, 5:37 am

I did this once to my dog when i was younger. I hit her once on her snout. We were walking in a park and she ran off amongst traffic. I felt bad about it, and i never did it again, It was me being bad at dog handling and being scared.


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OliveOilMom
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19 Oct 2015, 8:07 am

There is nothing wrong with it. It teaches them. Other dogs and cats do the same thing to each other. They teach not to do something by a nip or a scratch. As long as you don't abuse or hurt them it's fine.


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naturalplastic
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19 Oct 2015, 9:12 am

Mom used to squirt the cats with spray bottles, or squirt guns, to teach them not to scratch furniture. Didnt seemed to taumatize them.



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19 Oct 2015, 9:40 am

I'm very sorry to say I have swatted one of my cats a few times, although I was careful not to do it hard. More like a pat than a swat, really. Yeah I'm terrible. :(

I read that you should never hit your pets, no matter what the reason. You shouldn't even yell at your dog or cat because their hearing is much better than ours, and it hurts their ears.

And yet many people think it's perfectly okay to spank a kid. And I can't say I don't understand that at all. Animals always give you unconditional love, while a kid might scream "I hate you!" right after you tell them you love them.



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19 Oct 2015, 10:31 am

I never use my hand to correct my dogs. A few pages of newspaper rolled up works just fine.


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19 Oct 2015, 11:17 am

Well if its a big dog that's misbehaving then you do gotta get them with some force or they don't care/notice, though I don't know that the newspaper is necessary a hand works just as well...with little animals pretty sure you're just supposed to slap them on the nose firmly but not too hard cause you don't want to hurt them like when they bite/scratch.


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19 Oct 2015, 12:41 pm

I have two high content wolf husky hybrids and a purebred Siberian Husky. The purebred was a stray who wandered up and was fully grown when we got him and already trained. He had a chip in him and we found the owners but they didn't want him anymore. He seemed to have been a show dog by how he stood and acted and walked and such. He didn't need much correction except for when he stole food. He's mainly stopped that now. He's grown so we would slap him on the butt and tell him no and put him outside or in a bedroom after he did it. So he would know he's in trouble.

The wolf hybrids need a much firmer hand though and you can't raise them exactly the way you do regular puppies. They will challenge you to try and be dominant from time to time and while they won't bite you, you have to be able to make sure they know you are the alpha. You do pop them on the nose as puppies and say no, loudly and firmly. You have to be stricter with them and firmer than with a regular puppy or they will just be unable to be kept. They will be too wolfy, and they are already wolfy enough. They aren't mean or aggressive at all and won't protect you if somebody breaks in because you are the alpha and they get behind you. If somebody attacks you they will attack but they aren't guard dogs no matter how they look. However, I'd love to see somebody try and raise a wolf hybrid with not popping them or yelling or being loud. You wouldn't be able to have that dog in the house for long. That's just how those dogs are.

Dogs, unlike children, can't just be told what you want them to do and they will do it. While dogs do learn a lot of our language and are familiar with it, they know what they have been taught or picked up over time. Certain words mean certain things. If you don't show them what no means, by giving them some negative reinforcement when they are puppies, then they won't really understand very well. Their mothers and the older dogs in their packs will correct them by biting them but not too hard when they are saying "no" and they bark or growl at them. Yes it hurts but not too bad and they learn to associate the brief pain with the word NO and the behavior and they stop it. That is how you train a dog. You don't reason with a dog, you train a dog. Once they are older they may understand what you say and do what you tell them to do. Mine do a lot of things when I just tell them to. They have picked it up over the years, but if I hadn't taught them certain things as a puppy, then we would never have been able to keep them inside or even outside probably, long enough or near enough so they would understand us. They are extremely destructive and you have to work hard to train them out of it. You can't take something away and give them something else beause they will fight you for it. That's what hybrids do. So when that puppy is jumping at you with teeth bared you have to pop him so he won't do it when he's a hundred pounds and has big sharp fangs because my what big teeth they do have.

So, while it can work for some dogs, it won't work for other breeds. It just depends on the breed really, and how rowdy it is and what it's bred for. A big working dog or one that is used to fighting or protecting and guarding will have to have some kind of physical restraint or punishment for what you want them to do to sink in. Unless you want to spend years and years trying over and over to break them of a habit.

It's not offensive to the dogs for you to pop them and say NO! They don't get their feelings hurt because dogs are wired to understand physical pain as correction from their mothers. Their mothers don't hurt them bad, but jsut enough so they will understand. Just like a good owner would do by popping them on the nose and saying NO! And of course plenty of good reinforcement and praise when they do something good. Treats and extra play or cuddling or scratching or just a pet and being told "Good boy!" in a happy voice will work as well. Eventually they will be able to read your tone of voice and will behave based on that, but very occasionally an adult dog will need to be popped when they do something really bad or dangerous, etc.

They don't think like we do. We like to think they do, but they don't. They love us and want to be with us yes, and they enjoy our company etc, but they don't get offended by the same things we would get offended over. If they would get offended by anything I'd assume it would be about being fed the same crap every single day and being made to take a crap in the yard in front of God and everybody. But they don't care. Nor do they care if you pop them on the nose when teaching them. Not because you are mad or had a bad day or over nothing, but when teaching them.

That is how you train dogs. It's what I was taught when I worked at the vets office. It's how the vets told new puppy owners to train their dogs. It's basically how most people who raise dogs train them as well. You pop them a few times to get no across as a puppy or that the behavior is wrong and not allowed, and then you have years and years where you don't have to do it again, nor put up with the behavior because they still just don't understand how important it is not to pee on the carpet or chew up your s**t or bite somebody.


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19 Oct 2015, 1:04 pm

I think controlled physical pain, of quite a minor amount, almost just to distract them, i really don't think it takes much. If you give it out in anger or frustration its because you don't know how to train them.


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19 Oct 2015, 3:00 pm

I have never laid a hand on any dog that I've ever owned. I know how to establish myself as the pack alpha, and I can roar and snarl like the baddest alpha male wolf when I have to. I've had purebred pits cowering. Once the bad behavior ends, you go right back into praise mode. It's over once it's over. Dogs live very much in the moment.


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OliveOilMom
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19 Oct 2015, 5:07 pm

Basso53 wrote:
I have never laid a hand on any dog that I've ever owned. I know how to establish myself as the pack alpha, and I can roar and snarl like the baddest alpha male wolf when I have to. I've had purebred pits cowering. Once the bad behavior ends, you go right back into praise mode. It's over once it's over. Dogs live very much in the moment.


With high content wolf hybrids that would just cause an immediate dominance fight when they are a bit bigger.


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glebel
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19 Oct 2015, 5:19 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well if its a big dog that's misbehaving then you do gotta get them with some force or they don't care/notice, though I don't know that the newspaper is necessary a hand works just as well...with little animals pretty sure you're just supposed to slap them on the nose firmly but not too hard cause you don't want to hurt them like when they bite/scratch.

Actually, my largest dog is a 107 pound Great Dane/ Pitbull mix, and the paper works just fine. I think maybe the noise gets the message through, as frequently I will hit the wall rather than him.


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