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Let's Overthrow the Neurodiversity Movement

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ASPartOfMe
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28 Oct 2015, 2:22 am

As theorized in the article the more educated parents have more resources to get their kids diagnosed. Also by definition bieng a more educated person increases the chance that they are aware of autism.

Failing to take the above into account IMO led Leo Kanner to start the refrigerator mother theory, and these days to the stereotype that Aspergers is the geek syndrome.


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28 Oct 2015, 5:21 am

NowhereWoman wrote:
BeaArthur wrote:
Phemto wrote:
Thanks for that. I hadn't seen those two studies. Which raises the whole question: Does having educated parents increase the likelyhood of autism, or does carrying genes associated with autism predispose someone to achieving a higher education?

I could see possible mechanisms either way. And of course, they're not mutually exclusive.

That whole higher education/autism link might end up being explained by people with more education being older when they reproduce.

I conjecture. Don't have any data to back it up, but it seems plausible.


Are you saying from the standpoint of, the older one is the more chance there is of having a non-NT child from a genetics perspective? That's interesting...that could mean a genetic component (beyond the already recognized genetic correlation, please realize I'm not saying causation)...OTOH, it could be that the more "nerdy" individuals in society have a somewhat more difficult time with socialization and therefore, marry (and have children) later due to that factor.

There are so many possibilities. I'm fascinated by all of them. :D

p.s. This all made me think of the movie Idocracy where the narrator said the smart people waited until their educations were done and careers established before trying to reproduce, at which time they had infertility problems due to their age and didn't pass along as many genes; whereas the average idiots had five kids by age 25. :lol: (Or along those lines.) I don't mean disrespect or offense, the movie was a comedy and not meant to be taken seriously.


The age at first birth was exactly the mechanism I was thinking up. Older parents tend to have more twins, Downs Syndrome, ASD, and probably a few other "anomalies." I doubt that explains all of it, though. There are almost certainly genetics at play as well. Some genes might increase you odds all by themselves, and others might make ASD more likely only when the parent is older, or some other environmental stimulus we haven't found yet.

I haven't seen idocracy, but I've heard good things about it. The argument in it goes all the way back to Victorian times and was the central part of the eugenics movement. Smart people aren't breeding enough and the "smartness" is going to get drowned out.



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28 Oct 2015, 7:23 am

ylevental wrote:
Many in the movement say Silicon Valley, Hollywood, corporate labs and IT departments are often "loaded" with well-paid individuals who live somewhere on the spectrum of autism, but provide no real examples. Studies show the exact opposite.


I am very, very skeptical of this also.

I don't see ASD people being very successful in that field, despite, the "geek" stereotype.

I worked as a computer programmer. I was fired from five different jobs. I gave up on programming. I was too slow, and I had numerous problems with the work environment.



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28 Oct 2015, 8:10 am

I wonder if this fellow(Roberson) is looking for grants. There could be tons of money in exaggerating results.



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28 Oct 2015, 8:23 am

NowhereWoman wrote:
BeaArthur wrote:
Phemto wrote:
Thanks for that. I hadn't seen those two studies. Which raises the whole question: Does having educated parents increase the likelyhood of autism, or does carrying genes associated with autism predispose someone to achieving a higher education?

I could see possible mechanisms either way. And of course, they're not mutually exclusive.

That whole higher education/autism link might end up being explained by people with more education being older when they reproduce.

I conjecture. Don't have any data to back it up, but it seems plausible.


Are you saying from the standpoint of, the older one is the more chance there is of having a non-NT child from a genetics perspective? That's interesting...that could mean a genetic component (beyond the already recognized genetic correlation, please realize I'm not saying causation)...OTOH, it could be that the more "nerdy" individuals in society have a somewhat more difficult time with socialization and therefore, marry (and have children) later due to that factor.


I think the association is well established of greater chance of autism in offspring with increasing age of (both) parents at time of conception. I don't have a cite right now but I bet you could get it off Wikipedia! :lol:


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28 Oct 2015, 8:34 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
ylevental wrote:
Many in the movement say Silicon Valley, Hollywood, corporate labs and IT departments are often "loaded" with well-paid individuals who live somewhere on the spectrum of autism, but provide no real examples. Studies show the exact opposite.


I am very, very skeptical of this also.

I don't see ASD people being very successful in that field, despite, the "geek" stereotype.

I worked as a computer programmer. I was fired from five different jobs. I gave up on programming. I was too slow, and I had numerous problems with the work environment.


I do think that startups are more accepting and better places for autistics because they are small thus less sensory overload, can't afford multiple personality tests, and market themselves as "maverick". Also I do think the "geek syndrome" if still a stereotype was a lot less inaccurate 30 years ago. Employers in general did not have to worry about employees or ex employees shooting up the office or suing them. Employers naturally are going to fear the odd loner type these days. I started noticing in the 1990's ads for programmers started adding "works well with others" requirements. Also the nature of what computers are and do has changed radically. This is the age of "social media" not the age of Windows business desktops or mini computers. If you are programming for most websites you have to have an idea of how people interact. Back then I had to make sure the sales orders added to the accounts receivable and the general ledger correctly.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 28 Oct 2015, 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SocOfAutism
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28 Oct 2015, 11:22 am

I'm an older, overeducated parent of a non-autistic child. Something else you have to consider is that older, overeducated people are more likely to take their kids to the doctor for small things. I freak out that my son isn't brushing his back teeth well enough or needs more fruit in his diet.

My husband and two of his siblings are autistic. He wasn't diagnosed until his 30s and the other two were never formally diagnosed. Their parents were working poor and didn't consider something like social oddness a big deal. My husband's NT brother has a small child who is now being assessed and is probably on the spectrum, but that seems to only be happening because of the red alert-type screening going on in schools. My brother in law wouldn't have thought to take him to be assessed. It's not in their culture to care if his kid will only eat two things and wants everything on a very particular schedule. No big deal.



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28 Oct 2015, 11:39 pm

SocOfAutism wrote:
I'm an older, overeducated parent of a non-autistic child. Something else you have to consider is that older, overeducated people are more likely to take their kids to the doctor for small things. I freak out that my son isn't brushing his back teeth well enough or needs more fruit in his diet.

My husband and two of his siblings are autistic. He wasn't diagnosed until his 30s and the other two were never formally diagnosed. Their parents were working poor and didn't consider something like social oddness a big deal. My husband's NT brother has a small child who is now being assessed and is probably on the spectrum, but that seems to only be happening because of the red alert-type screening going on in schools. My brother in law wouldn't have thought to take him to be assessed. It's not in their culture to care if his kid will only eat two things and wants everything on a very particular schedule. No big deal.


Something to keep in mind, when speaking of people from a working poor background. It's entirely possible that they each, individually and privately, considered these things to indeed be a Big Deal, yet not such an Immediate Deal that it needed to be talked about. Because once you start talking about a problem like that with others, then you need to Do Something About It, and that Something usually requires resources which, when you're working poor, you never have enough of to begin with. So instead of talking about it you just keep your worries bottled up inside and let the stress slowly kill you, because there really isn't any other option.


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29 Oct 2015, 4:16 am

RhodyStruggle wrote:
SocOfAutism wrote:
I'm an older, overeducated parent of a non-autistic child. Something else you have to consider is that older, overeducated people are more likely to take their kids to the doctor for small things. I freak out that my son isn't brushing his back teeth well enough or needs more fruit in his diet.

My husband and two of his siblings are autistic. He wasn't diagnosed until his 30s and the other two were never formally diagnosed. Their parents were working poor and didn't consider something like social oddness a big deal. My husband's NT brother has a small child who is now being assessed and is probably on the spectrum, but that seems to only be happening because of the red alert-type screening going on in schools. My brother in law wouldn't have thought to take him to be assessed. It's not in their culture to care if his kid will only eat two things and wants everything on a very particular schedule. No big deal.


Something to keep in mind, when speaking of people from a working poor background. It's entirely possible that they each, individually and privately, considered these things to indeed be a Big Deal, yet not such an Immediate Deal that it needed to be talked about. Because once you start talking about a problem like that with others, then you need to Do Something About It, and that Something usually requires resources which, when you're working poor, you never have enough of to begin with. So instead of talking about it you just keep your worries bottled up inside and let the stress slowly kill you, because there really isn't any other option.


Both excellent points. Diagnosis often requires resources. I'm certain this is also a contributor to the increase. Especially if I think about how the well-off dealt with illness through the years. Today, it means you find the specialists to get the most helpful diagnosis for your child. In my grandparents time, it meant you have the resources to secrete your "weird" child away and possibly keep them completely out of the statistics.