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pawelk1986
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31 Oct 2015, 1:51 pm

Did you know that the American national anthem which was in force until 1930 year, "My Country, 'Tis of Thee" was sung to the tune of "God Save the Queen" Anthem of of Great Britain, which was in turn "borrowed" from the German Reich, of course, the Second Reich, do not confuse with the Third Reich ;)





On the other hand, the national anthem of my country (Poland) is "Dabrowski's Mazurka," It's melody was also used in Southern Slavic (Yugoslav) federation, of course Yugoslavian/Serbs not asked author for permission :mrgreen:




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01 Nov 2015, 2:56 am

It's the spirit behind the song that matters, not the tune.


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naturalplastic
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01 Nov 2015, 8:51 am

Many (if not most) national anthems are plagarized.

The national anthem we have had from 1931 onward is "the Star Spangled Banner" which every American school kid knows was composed by Francis Scott Key while he was detained on a British warship while the British navy was bombarting Ft.McHenry in the War of 1812. But few know that Key did not actually write the tune, and that he just wrote the words as a poem. It was later folks who wedded the words to the pre existing tune "To Anacreon in Heaven" composed in the 1770's- the theme song of a London gentleman's club for amateur musicians called "The Anacreonic Society".

Anacreon was an ancient Greek philosopher.

A certain piece composed by Haydn in the late 1700's became the Austrian national anthem in the 19th Century, and then in the 20th Century became the Third Reich's "Deutschland Uber Alles" (Germany over all).

Most newly minted national anthems of the 21st Century are set to the same one tune: Beethoven's "Ode to Joy". Entities ranging from the kingdom of Tonga, to the entire European Union, have anthems consisting of differing words set to the same tune as Beethoven's Ode to Joy. The piece is not only rousing, but is very conjunctive (the notes are close together on the scale). So its easy for untrained singers to join in (much like the French national anthem, but very unlike the very difficult to sing and very disjunctive Star Spangled Banner).



Last edited by naturalplastic on 01 Nov 2015, 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ZenDen
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01 Nov 2015, 9:09 am

And yet the old Star Spangled Banner still inspires me the most. I think being born in the middle of WWII might have something to do with it. I don't think the difficulty in singing it "correctly" has any bearing on it, or me.



Kraichgauer
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01 Nov 2015, 1:51 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Many (if not most) national anthems are plagarized.

The national anthem we have had from 1931 onward is "the Star Spangled Banner" which every American school kid knows was composed by Francis Scott Key while he was detained on a British warship while the British navy was bombarting Ft.McHenry in the War of 1812. But few know that Key did not actually write the tune, and that he just wrote the words as a poem. It was later folks who wedded the words to the pre existing tune "To Anacreon in Heaven" composed in the 1770's- the theme song of a London gentleman's club for amateur musicians called "The Anacreonic Society".

Anacreon was an ancient Greek philosopher.

A certain piece composed by Haydn in the late 1700's became the Austrian national anthem in the 19th Century, and then in the 20th Century became the Third Reich's "Deutschland Uber Alles" (Germany over all).

Most newly minted national anthems of the 21st Century are set to the same one tune: Beethoven's "Ode to Joy". Entities ranging from the kingdom of Tonga, to the entire European Union, have anthems consisting of differing words set to the same tune as Beethoven's Ode to Joy. The piece is not only rousing, but is very conjunctive (the notes are close together on the scale). So its easy for untrained singers to join in (much like the French national anthem, but very unlike the very difficult to sing and very disjunctive Star Spangled Banner).


Actually, Deutschland Uber Alles I'm pretty sure had predated the Nazis as Germany's national anthem.


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naturalplastic
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01 Nov 2015, 2:21 pm

Yes. Wiki agrees with you.

Since 1922 the Deutscherleid was the national anthem of Germany (eleven years before Hitler took power).

Haydn wrote the tune in 1797 to commemorate the Austrian Emporers B-day.

But the words were penned in 1841- and became a rallying song for the 1844 revolution in Germany.

The (to me) very Nazi sounding "Germany over all" line apparently originally did not mean "Germany above its neighbors and the rest of the world" ( ie were entitled to enslave everyone else)as I had always assumed. It originally meant "lets put a united Germany above petty fragmentation" since Germany was still a disunited bunch of "microstates" and was not yet the real unified country that the progressive guy who wrote the words to the song longed for Germany to be. And for that reason the words were enflaming at the time he wrote them.

Its still the national anthem of the modern post war Germany- but only the third and last verse.



pawelk1986
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01 Nov 2015, 2:27 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Many (if not most) national anthems are plagarized.

The national anthem we have had from 1931 onward is "the Star Spangled Banner" which every American school kid knows was composed by Francis Scott Key while he was detained on a British warship while the British navy was bombarting Ft.McHenry in the War of 1812. But few know that Key did not actually write the tune, and that he just wrote the words as a poem. It was later folks who wedded the words to the pre existing tune "To Anacreon in Heaven" composed in the 1770's- the theme song of a London gentleman's club for amateur musicians called "The Anacreonic Society".

Anacreon was an ancient Greek philosopher.

A certain piece composed by Haydn in the late 1700's became the Austrian national anthem in the 19th Century, and then in the 20th Century became the Third Reich's "Deutschland Uber Alles" (Germany over all).

Most newly minted national anthems of the 21st Century are set to the same one tune: Beethoven's "Ode to Joy". Entities ranging from the kingdom of Tonga, to the entire European Union, have anthems consisting of differing words set to the same tune as Beethoven's Ode to Joy. The piece is not only rousing, but is very conjunctive (the notes are close together on the scale). So its easy for untrained singers to join in (much like the French national anthem, but very unlike the very difficult to sing and very disjunctive Star Spangled Banner).


Actually, Deutschland Uber Alles I'm pretty sure had predated the Nazis as Germany's national anthem.


It has been "borrowed" from the Austro-Hungarian Empire

Sounds familiar isn't it? :mrgreen:



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01 Nov 2015, 2:33 pm

A lot of songs use the tunes of other songs. The hymn be still my soul is the Finnish natianal anthem. Scotland the brave is the name of the words to the tune. Scots wha hae was the tune of hae tattie tuttie. Loch lommond and red is the rose. Twinkle twinkle little star, bah bah black sheep, and the alphabet song all have the same tune. Ice ice baby and under pressure use the same tune. Some songs even share the same lyrics, yet have different tunes. It is really common. That is why some songs particularly classical songs will have the composer and lyrics by two different people.


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01 Nov 2015, 8:28 pm

The US did not have an official national anthem until 1931. A variety of patriotic songs were played. America/My Country Tis of Thee was not the anthem. The closest thing we had to an official anthem was Hail, Columbia, which was also played for the President, before being replaced by Hail to the Chief. Hail Columbia is still played for the Vice President.

And the "entire" EU does NOT use variations of Beethoven's Ode to Joy as their anthem. France still uses La Marseillaise, for example. Germany still uses Deutschland Uber Alles.

Also, Finland's national anthem is Mamme Laulu. Not the finale of Sibelius' musical opus Finlandia which is the melody used for Be Still My Soul. After the Winter War of 1939-1940, a Finnish patriot penned lyrics to Sibelius' melody, which became the well loved patriotic song Finlandia Hymni. Which many Finns would prefer as their anthem, but, it isn't. Much as many Americans seem to prefer America the Beautiful to the Star Spangled Banner.


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01 Nov 2015, 9:10 pm

Basso53 wrote:

And the "entire" EU does NOT use variations of Beethoven's Ode to Joy as their anthem. France still uses La Marseillaise, for example. Germany still uses Deutschland Uber Alles.


Banner.


Learn to read please!

I didnt say anything resembling the statement that "every country in the EU uses anthems that are variations of ode to joy". Dont know how you got that out of what I said.

What I said was that (a) many countries are still gaining independence in recent years, and (b) each new country needs a national anthem ( and some existing countries change their national anthems), and (c) most of these new countries are minor places in the third world like the Western Sahara, and the Island of Tonga, but (D) even the EU (which isnt even a country) has an "anthem". Let me explain:There is an anthem- and its used (I guess at offical EU events) for the EU. And I suppose that it is also the putative "national anthem" for a future united nation state of Europe if that goal of the EU ever actually happens. And (E) guess what one same tune most of these newly minted national anthems are set to? Whether its a small entity like TOnga, or big major entity like the European Union the tune is... Beethoven's "Ode to Joy".

Got it??????



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02 Nov 2015, 11:13 am

Basso53 wrote:
The US did not have an official national anthem until 1931. A variety of patriotic songs were played. America/My Country Tis of Thee was not the anthem. The closest thing we had to an official anthem was Hail, Columbia, which was also played for the President, before being replaced by Hail to the Chief. Hail Columbia is still played for the Vice President.

And the "entire" EU does NOT use variations of Beethoven's Ode to Joy as their anthem. France still uses La Marseillaise, for example. Germany still uses Deutschland Uber Alles.

Also, Finland's national anthem is Mamme Laulu. Not the finale of Sibelius' musical opus Finlandia which is the melody used for Be Still My Soul. After the Winter War of 1939-1940, a Finnish patriot penned lyrics to Sibelius' melody, which became the well loved patriotic song Finlandia Hymni. Which many Finns would prefer as their anthem, but, it isn't. Much as many Americans seem to prefer America the Beautiful to the Star Spangled Banner.


You said: "Germany still uses Deutschland Uber Alles" But that's not quite true. The name of the song you're thinking of is ""Das Lied der Deutschen", and in the first stanza are the words: "Deutschland Uber Alles" which are repeated and which most of the world recognizes. The phrase: "Deutschland Uber Alles" was originally meant to consolidate the small feuding German states, at the time it was written.

The first stanza, is now banned according to German law, and only the third stanza is used.



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02 Nov 2015, 11:54 am

ZenDen wrote:
Basso53 wrote:
The US did not have an official national anthem until 1931. A variety of patriotic songs were played. America/My Country Tis of Thee was not the anthem. The closest thing we had to an official anthem was Hail, Columbia, which was also played for the President, before being replaced by Hail to the Chief. Hail Columbia is still played for the Vice President.

And the "entire" EU does NOT use variations of Beethoven's Ode to Joy as their anthem. France still uses La Marseillaise, for example. Germany still uses Deutschland Uber Alles.

Also, Finland's national anthem is Mamme Laulu. Not the finale of Sibelius' musical opus Finlandia which is the melody used for Be Still My Soul. After the Winter War of 1939-1940, a Finnish patriot penned lyrics to Sibelius' melody, which became the well loved patriotic song Finlandia Hymni. Which many Finns would prefer as their anthem, but, it isn't. Much as many Americans seem to prefer America the Beautiful to the Star Spangled Banner.


You said: "Germany still uses Deutschland Uber Alles" But that's not quite true. The name of the song you're thinking of is ""Das Lied der Deutschen", and in the first stanza are the words: "Deutschland Uber Alles" which are repeated and which most of the world recognizes. The phrase: "Deutschland Uber Alles" was originally meant to consolidate the small feuding German states, at the time it was written.

The first stanza, is now banned according to German law, and only the third stanza is used.


From what I know the first verse, it is not so much banned, is simply is not performed, because of associations with Nazism, but it is not per se prohibited by law, it just is not "politically correct" to sing it.
Currently, only German rednecks (with all due respect for true American rednecks ;) ) from the NPD or monarchists are singing it



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02 Nov 2015, 12:26 pm

...I don't think I've ever heard " To Anacreon In Heaven " .



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02 Nov 2015, 1:31 pm

ASS-P wrote:
...I don't think I've ever heard " To Anacreon In Heaven " .

Since youre a fellow American you have certainly heard the melody many times.

But since the Anacreonic society of late 18th Century London disbanded in 1792 there is no reason you would have had occasion to hear their theme song complete with lyrics unless you went back in a time machine. Though there are videos of folks singing it on U Tube apparently.

Anacreon was an ancient Greek bard and poet who celebrated wine women and song. The Ancreonic Song (as it was also called) was basically a high brow drinking song. "Friends in Low Places", but with references to the Gods of Mount Olympus.

The refrain was about how Anacreon showed us all how to "join the myrtle of Venus with the vine of Bacchus".
In other words: Sex, and drugs, and...all that's missing is "rocknroll'! :D



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02 Nov 2015, 6:16 pm

...As someone skirted saying , " Anacreon " is a famously difficult song to sing entirely " properly " on tune , even if you have the right kind of vocal range ~ Popular music performers who sing it at big events in America sometimes get more " proper " music-oriented letter-writers in a bit of a tizzy over their not singing it " right " even aside from the couple of examples (Jose Feliciano , Marvin Gaye) of performers who tried to rather vary in their performance of it at some big event .
After 9/11 , there was some various " Let's get a more singable , accessible , U.S. anthem " sentiment afoot , with Irving Berlin's " God Bless America " pointed to by some ~ However , I believe some more , again , " proper " musicians considered it too simplistic/" pop " a song , for one ~
Rather more left wing-y people who move for a new anthem in America tend to call for " America The Beautiful " (whose author was probably a lesbian) , more right-ie folks , if they want a new one ~ I'm not sure if ( " GBA " aside .) it would be that or " stick with TSSB " .