Why do people think it is perfectly acceptable to say that

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JakeG
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10 Apr 2007, 1:14 pm

dexkaden wrote:
Yes, I love sitting in a lecture hall listening to someone talk about something I am interested in. It isn't interactive in that I don't talk to the presenter, but we are still carrying on a conversa...kind of...like my mind in engaged in understanding and the presenter is teaching so it is like an ESP conversation...except this doesn't makes sense and I now come across as a psycho.


No, I understand what you mean, in fact this is what I meant when I was saying that I felt that lectures seem slightly interactive but you just put it better than me :)



JakeG
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10 Apr 2007, 1:17 pm

SeriousGirl wrote:
I have interests so esoteric that people haven't heard of them. I can't even bring up the subject of eveolutionary psychology without causing all sorts of social problems.


See that is where I differ. When I hear something like that that I have never really heard of before I get quite interested. Although in this particular instance, I think I have a vague idea of what you are talking of as I heard it mentioned in an offhand way in a talk I went to about evolution of animals (inc. humans) in a more general sense. I would be interested to hear about that particular element in more depth though.



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10 Apr 2007, 1:18 pm

JakeG wrote:
Sopho_soph wrote:
I like my lecturers, I've also found I tend to understand jokes they make, whereas with other people I don't. I just wish other people on my course felt the same way... I get disturbed really easily by people talking.


Same with me, in fact it is the bane of my life. I am partially deaf in one ear so sometimes struggle to hear at the best of times anyway but when there is constant murmuring and sometimes even outright chatting in the lectures I get quite upset and uncomfortable. I tend to feel quite bad for the lecturers as well who rarely say anything but just try to plough on through the racket.

I feel bad for lecturers sometimes as well - sometimes people start packing away their things while they're still talking, or they'll be having really loud conversations. I never know what to do in these situations though because I want to carry on listening, but then if everyone else is putting away their things I panic, thinking I'm going to be late (I'm terrified of being late). You'd think that with problems reading people and interacting, it would be people with Aspergers always coming across as rude etc, but from what I see, other people do it just as much, seemingly without caring.
With the noise, it's the opposite for me, the reason it bothers me is because my hearing is quite good (I think) so the slightest noise can distract me for ages



JakeG
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10 Apr 2007, 1:19 pm

Sopho_soph wrote:
When other people start talking to me about 'normal' things like what they did at the weekend or music that I don't like, I never just dismiss it as being completely boring or anything... You'd think it'd be the same with what course someone is on


I even find that people doing different subjects than me aren't interested in talking about it if I enquire about them as an outsider. I think one of the major problems nowadays in the UK is the motivation that people have to go to university. Too many seem to end up going without any real interest in their subject.



JakeG
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10 Apr 2007, 1:22 pm

SeriousGirl wrote:
The point I'm trying to make is that just telling someone it is boring straight out like that is rude, rude, rude. We can all come up with something positive to say about anything and then change the subject without being so rude!


Exactly and you would also think that when speaking with other people you could also try to take an interest and find out things rather than dismissing everything offhand.



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10 Apr 2007, 1:27 pm

JakeG wrote:
Sopho_soph wrote:
When other people start talking to me about 'normal' things like what they did at the weekend or music that I don't like, I never just dismiss it as being completely boring or anything... You'd think it'd be the same with what course someone is on


I even find that people doing different subjects than me aren't interested in talking about it if I enquire about them as an outsider. I think one of the major problems nowadays in the UK is the motivation that people have to go to university. Too many seem to end up going without any real interest in their subject.

It's the whole 'student culture' as well (if that's the right way of putting it) and the assumption that to be a student means to go out every night getting drunk for three years. People don't seem to be encouraged to pursue their interests in high school anymore. I went to a grammar school where most of the people there were really arrogant, assuming they were a lot more intelligent than they really were, but you would have though by the way people spoke about our school that everyone there was motivated to do well and genuinely interested in their work, but by the end of year 11 most of the people I knew were going out doing drugs. I think it's a combination of failure of the education system and bad parenting, but that's just how I see it from where I live



SeriousGirl
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10 Apr 2007, 1:42 pm

JakeG wrote:
See that is where I differ. When I hear something like that that I have never really heard of before I get quite interested. Although in this particular instance, I think I have a vague idea of what you are talking of as I heard it mentioned in an offhand way in a talk I went to about evolution of animals (inc. humans) in a more general sense. I would be interested to hear about that particular element in more depth though.


That's what I love about aspies! Evolutionary psychology looks at behavior as about 50% inherited and discounts a lot of what we believed in the past as infants being blank slates. People start getting all emotional about eugenics and such when it is nothing of the sort. Eugenics is a behavior.

My very speical interest in the concept of altruism because it is an evolutionary paradox. Why do animals and humans express altruism when it appears to be evolutionary counter-intuitive to survival? The answer stems from math, game theory to be percise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism

It can also explain people's reaction to autism to some degree.

A mathematical model of altruism:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~strone01/altruism.html


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JakeG
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10 Apr 2007, 1:48 pm

SeriousGirl wrote:
That's what I love about aspies! Evolutionary psychology looks at behavior as about 50% inherited and discounts a lot of what we believed in the past as infants being blank slates. People start getting all emotional about eugenics and such when it is nothing of the sort. Eugenics is a behavior.
My very speical interest in the concept of altruism because it is an evolutionary paradox. Why do animals and humans express altruism when it appears to be evolutionary counter-intuitive to survival? The answer stems from math, game theory to be percise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism

It can also explain people's reaction to autism to some degree.

A mathematical model of altruism:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~strone01/altruism.html


Ah yes, I have heard about bits and pieces of this stuff before but in different contexts; especially the game theoretic aspects. Things like Reciprocal Altruism tie in to some extent to topics in economics as well especially Adam Smith and the Nash Equilibrium. In terms of the biological context, I have only heard little bits, mainly from the talk on evolutionary science I mentioned before but it sure does sound interesting; I will have to check out the links.



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10 Apr 2007, 2:11 pm

If you do look into to it, think about the behavior of aspies in the context of the tit-for-tat game, cheaters and cheater detection and it will become clear why we have so many problems fitting in.

I find it comforting that human behavior can be explained by mathematics.


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dexkaden
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10 Apr 2007, 2:22 pm

I came across evolutionary psychology while looking into behavioral economics, and I find the field of evolutionary psychology to be very interesting when explaining market behavior. Reciprocal altruism is fascinating when explored in the context of markets! The big problem I have, though, is the fact that it can't really be falsified, so as a kind of philosophical approach to things, I find it quite interesting, but as far as actual science goes, I tend to view it with a grain of salt. (Is that the right metaphor for not taking it at face value?) (Not to offend your interest or anything.)

I tend to take a heterodox, mix-and-mash, Sherlock Holmes, inductive and deductive mix approach to understanding things, anyway, so, yeah.


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10 Apr 2007, 2:23 pm

im shure if i ws good at it, i would enjoy it alot more than i do now


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risingphoenix
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10 Apr 2007, 5:28 pm

JakeG wrote:
Sopho_soph wrote:
risingphoenix wrote:
Oh come on, as if everyone who doesn't love math was a stupid, superficial airhead who thinks getting drunk and vomiting into the corner is the highlight of every party. Or as if on the other hand there weren't any people who are gifted with math and still thought that way, too.

I don't think she meant everyone who doesn't love maths is like that


Exactly, sometimes we consider extreme examples to make a point.


Ok, I just wasn't sure, although I also supposed (hoped) it was just an extreme example. Anyways, you've created quite an interesting thread here, Math is obviously a very polarizing subject :D


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11 Apr 2007, 10:30 am

dexkaden wrote:
I came across evolutionary psychology while looking into behavioral economics, and I find the field of evolutionary psychology to be very interesting when explaining market behavior. Reciprocal altruism is fascinating when explored in the context of markets! The big problem I have, though, is the fact that it can't really be falsified, so as a kind of philosophical approach to things.


There isn't a single psychological theory that can be falsified and most are based on an individual's ideas., i.e., Freud, Jung, etc. We do know that behavior is partly genetic in humans as well as animals. Right now, I think the evolutionary approach is the best psychological model going as it is based on hard data rather than concepts.

I think people do play tit-for-tat and exclude social cheaters. I feel that is true from my observations of all sorts of social groups as well as an understanding of the theoretical concepts. Right now, I see it as the best fit for the facts.


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11 Apr 2007, 5:54 pm

risingphoenix wrote:
JakeG wrote:
Sopho_soph wrote:
risingphoenix wrote:
Oh come on, as if everyone who doesn't love math was a stupid, superficial airhead who thinks getting drunk and vomiting into the corner is the highlight of every party. Or as if on the other hand there weren't any people who are gifted with math and still thought that way, too.

I don't think she meant everyone who doesn't love maths is like that


Exactly, sometimes we consider extreme examples to make a point.


Ok, I just wasn't sure, although I also supposed (hoped) it was just an extreme example. Anyways, you've created quite an interesting thread here, Math is obviously a very polarizing subject :D


No ... this was an extreme example I used to get my point across.

I think anyone with a passion is interesting whatever the subject. I think people without passions are the ones who get lost in life.

I loved maths at school - it was my best subject. I didn't study it at university though because I love being around people so I became an allied health professional.

However to study any of the health disciplines you need to understand maths eg human physiology; statistics to understand research papers; physics to understand the equipment we use etc etc

So maths is used to save lives and heal!

I went to a lecture at the hospital I work at recently. The lecture was given by a statistician ... he was so passionate about the subject matter he made the lecture fascinating.

He was talking about applying a statistical model to adverse events (sorry ... can't remember exact details). He was saying by applying this model you can detect problems in hospital earlier than humans can.

For example, there was a paediatrician in England who was murdering his patients and got away with it for years. When they retrospectively applied this statistical model to adverse events ... they realised they would have noticed years earlier the disturbing trend in deaths in children treated by this doctor.

I guess maths as a subject at school is often made boring by teachers who don't have a passion for it. I remember one of my maths teachers in hight school (looking back he probably has Asperger's). He was absolutely passionate about maths ... and passionate about there being life on other planets. He was always applying statistics and mathematical models to prove there must be life on other planets. Going to his classes was always fun.

I love seeing practical maths applications in kids. At the local newsagents you see kids who have been given $1.00 and they're working out how many lollies they can get.

Smelena



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11 Apr 2007, 7:02 pm

I have Dyscalculia. So to me, mathematics IS, indeed, exremely interesting to me.

I can't do math worth a steaming pile of crap. It's that purrrty beautiful thing behind the store display I can't ever have. Mathematics is a very interesting subject to me. It intrigues me ceaslessly but I am so very bad at it.