Why do people think it is perfectly acceptable to say that

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Sopho
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10 Apr 2007, 1:27 pm

JakeG wrote:
Sopho_soph wrote:
When other people start talking to me about 'normal' things like what they did at the weekend or music that I don't like, I never just dismiss it as being completely boring or anything... You'd think it'd be the same with what course someone is on


I even find that people doing different subjects than me aren't interested in talking about it if I enquire about them as an outsider. I think one of the major problems nowadays in the UK is the motivation that people have to go to university. Too many seem to end up going without any real interest in their subject.

It's the whole 'student culture' as well (if that's the right way of putting it) and the assumption that to be a student means to go out every night getting drunk for three years. People don't seem to be encouraged to pursue their interests in high school anymore. I went to a grammar school where most of the people there were really arrogant, assuming they were a lot more intelligent than they really were, but you would have though by the way people spoke about our school that everyone there was motivated to do well and genuinely interested in their work, but by the end of year 11 most of the people I knew were going out doing drugs. I think it's a combination of failure of the education system and bad parenting, but that's just how I see it from where I live



SeriousGirl
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10 Apr 2007, 1:42 pm

JakeG wrote:
See that is where I differ. When I hear something like that that I have never really heard of before I get quite interested. Although in this particular instance, I think I have a vague idea of what you are talking of as I heard it mentioned in an offhand way in a talk I went to about evolution of animals (inc. humans) in a more general sense. I would be interested to hear about that particular element in more depth though.


That's what I love about aspies! Evolutionary psychology looks at behavior as about 50% inherited and discounts a lot of what we believed in the past as infants being blank slates. People start getting all emotional about eugenics and such when it is nothing of the sort. Eugenics is a behavior.

My very speical interest in the concept of altruism because it is an evolutionary paradox. Why do animals and humans express altruism when it appears to be evolutionary counter-intuitive to survival? The answer stems from math, game theory to be percise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism

It can also explain people's reaction to autism to some degree.

A mathematical model of altruism:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~strone01/altruism.html


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JakeG
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10 Apr 2007, 1:48 pm

SeriousGirl wrote:
That's what I love about aspies! Evolutionary psychology looks at behavior as about 50% inherited and discounts a lot of what we believed in the past as infants being blank slates. People start getting all emotional about eugenics and such when it is nothing of the sort. Eugenics is a behavior.
My very speical interest in the concept of altruism because it is an evolutionary paradox. Why do animals and humans express altruism when it appears to be evolutionary counter-intuitive to survival? The answer stems from math, game theory to be percise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism

It can also explain people's reaction to autism to some degree.

A mathematical model of altruism:

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~strone01/altruism.html


Ah yes, I have heard about bits and pieces of this stuff before but in different contexts; especially the game theoretic aspects. Things like Reciprocal Altruism tie in to some extent to topics in economics as well especially Adam Smith and the Nash Equilibrium. In terms of the biological context, I have only heard little bits, mainly from the talk on evolutionary science I mentioned before but it sure does sound interesting; I will have to check out the links.



SeriousGirl
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10 Apr 2007, 2:11 pm

If you do look into to it, think about the behavior of aspies in the context of the tit-for-tat game, cheaters and cheater detection and it will become clear why we have so many problems fitting in.

I find it comforting that human behavior can be explained by mathematics.


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dexkaden
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10 Apr 2007, 2:22 pm

I came across evolutionary psychology while looking into behavioral economics, and I find the field of evolutionary psychology to be very interesting when explaining market behavior. Reciprocal altruism is fascinating when explored in the context of markets! The big problem I have, though, is the fact that it can't really be falsified, so as a kind of philosophical approach to things, I find it quite interesting, but as far as actual science goes, I tend to view it with a grain of salt. (Is that the right metaphor for not taking it at face value?) (Not to offend your interest or anything.)

I tend to take a heterodox, mix-and-mash, Sherlock Holmes, inductive and deductive mix approach to understanding things, anyway, so, yeah.


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richardbenson
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10 Apr 2007, 2:23 pm

im shure if i ws good at it, i would enjoy it alot more than i do now


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risingphoenix
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10 Apr 2007, 5:28 pm

JakeG wrote:
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Oh come on, as if everyone who doesn't love math was a stupid, superficial airhead who thinks getting drunk and vomiting into the corner is the highlight of every party. Or as if on the other hand there weren't any people who are gifted with math and still thought that way, too.

I don't think she meant everyone who doesn't love maths is like that


Exactly, sometimes we consider extreme examples to make a point.


Ok, I just wasn't sure, although I also supposed (hoped) it was just an extreme example. Anyways, you've created quite an interesting thread here, Math is obviously a very polarizing subject :D


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11 Apr 2007, 10:30 am

dexkaden wrote:
I came across evolutionary psychology while looking into behavioral economics, and I find the field of evolutionary psychology to be very interesting when explaining market behavior. Reciprocal altruism is fascinating when explored in the context of markets! The big problem I have, though, is the fact that it can't really be falsified, so as a kind of philosophical approach to things.


There isn't a single psychological theory that can be falsified and most are based on an individual's ideas., i.e., Freud, Jung, etc. We do know that behavior is partly genetic in humans as well as animals. Right now, I think the evolutionary approach is the best psychological model going as it is based on hard data rather than concepts.

I think people do play tit-for-tat and exclude social cheaters. I feel that is true from my observations of all sorts of social groups as well as an understanding of the theoretical concepts. Right now, I see it as the best fit for the facts.


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11 Apr 2007, 5:54 pm

risingphoenix wrote:
JakeG wrote:
Sopho_soph wrote:
risingphoenix wrote:
Oh come on, as if everyone who doesn't love math was a stupid, superficial airhead who thinks getting drunk and vomiting into the corner is the highlight of every party. Or as if on the other hand there weren't any people who are gifted with math and still thought that way, too.

I don't think she meant everyone who doesn't love maths is like that


Exactly, sometimes we consider extreme examples to make a point.


Ok, I just wasn't sure, although I also supposed (hoped) it was just an extreme example. Anyways, you've created quite an interesting thread here, Math is obviously a very polarizing subject :D


No ... this was an extreme example I used to get my point across.

I think anyone with a passion is interesting whatever the subject. I think people without passions are the ones who get lost in life.

I loved maths at school - it was my best subject. I didn't study it at university though because I love being around people so I became an allied health professional.

However to study any of the health disciplines you need to understand maths eg human physiology; statistics to understand research papers; physics to understand the equipment we use etc etc

So maths is used to save lives and heal!

I went to a lecture at the hospital I work at recently. The lecture was given by a statistician ... he was so passionate about the subject matter he made the lecture fascinating.

He was talking about applying a statistical model to adverse events (sorry ... can't remember exact details). He was saying by applying this model you can detect problems in hospital earlier than humans can.

For example, there was a paediatrician in England who was murdering his patients and got away with it for years. When they retrospectively applied this statistical model to adverse events ... they realised they would have noticed years earlier the disturbing trend in deaths in children treated by this doctor.

I guess maths as a subject at school is often made boring by teachers who don't have a passion for it. I remember one of my maths teachers in hight school (looking back he probably has Asperger's). He was absolutely passionate about maths ... and passionate about there being life on other planets. He was always applying statistics and mathematical models to prove there must be life on other planets. Going to his classes was always fun.

I love seeing practical maths applications in kids. At the local newsagents you see kids who have been given $1.00 and they're working out how many lollies they can get.

Smelena



markaudette
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11 Apr 2007, 7:02 pm

I have Dyscalculia. So to me, mathematics IS, indeed, exremely interesting to me.

I can't do math worth a steaming pile of crap. It's that purrrty beautiful thing behind the store display I can't ever have. Mathematics is a very interesting subject to me. It intrigues me ceaslessly but I am so very bad at it.



mariiha
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11 Apr 2007, 7:08 pm

higher math is a like solitaire game to me; that is what keeps my attention; but i would not be able to intelligently converse or debate any kind of math.



irishwhistle
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13 Apr 2007, 2:52 am

And they say we're socially handicapped. It's because people are so wrapped up in themselves that they never look at things from the other side, say to recognize the equation. If one person says they like a thing, and another says it's boring, they are now saying the second person is boring.

person 1 thinks - me = math
person 2 thinks - math = boring
person 1 concludes "person 1 thinks I'm boring"

I had a pinhead of a girl give me trouble for something I learned to do, something of which I am very proud. She rambled on, full knowing that this is something I do, about how she just didn't see why anybody would want to do it and that it wasn't worth the trouble. Took 3 conversations before I had thought it out well enough to put her in her place. The something I mentioned was breastfeeding, by the way, a great achievement, I think, for anyone with touch issues.



matt271
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13 Apr 2007, 8:27 am

why cant it be a compliment??
"i am good at math" "wow. i suck at math, you must be smart"