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GnosticBishop
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06 Nov 2015, 11:42 am

Why did Jesus condemn you?

Christian dogma and traditions say that we are all condemned. Some say because of Original Sin, a non-Jewish concept that I think we can ignore as scriptures say that we are all responsible for our own sins. Jesus also indicates that this is so as he tells us to pick up our crosses and follow him. Our cross means our sins. Anything else would be immoral so we can know that we are judged only by our own sins.

I was a large sinner as compared to most. I am still a sinner but I suffered becoming brethren to Jesus and recognize that I was never condemned. The only thing I needed saving from was ignorance of reality. I followed these quotes/instructions.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

As to thinking that Jesus died for you, even though you are not condemned and never were, Jesus would never give you a debt to do unto him what you think he did for you, to die. Jesus came to give life in abundance. Not death. You are conditioned not to believe this of course as you believe in the immoral sacrifice doctrine. There is never any justice in punishing the innocent instead of the guilty.

You presently think yourself condemned.

What was your sin and what makes you think that Jesus would die for you and lay a false and immoral sense of indebtedness to him on you, --- instead of just forgiving you?

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0_equals_true
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07 Nov 2015, 9:31 am

I happen to know that he concept of original sin post dated early Christianity.

I'm not an apologist of Christianity, just know this one.

St Augustine by his own admission was sex obsessed. This seems to be more about one man's personal problem than anything else.



0_equals_true
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07 Nov 2015, 9:34 am

Also how can you be condemned and forgiven at the same time?

As an Atheist, I wonder why people spend so much time bothering about something hat was so badly though out in the fireplace.

These doctrines are profoundly mediocre works.



Neotenous Nordic
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07 Nov 2015, 12:15 pm

1 John 1:5

"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

I like that one.



0_equals_true
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07 Nov 2015, 12:36 pm

Neotenous Nordic wrote:
1 John 1:5

"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

I like that one.


Believe what I say. Nothing to see here...move along now. - 0_equals_true WP 297699 : 6852495

Pseudo-profound statements are easy enough to make.



GnosticBishop
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07 Nov 2015, 8:14 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
Also how can you be condemned and forgiven at the same time?

As an Atheist, I wonder why people spend so much time bothering about something hat was so badly though out in the fireplace.

These doctrines are profoundly mediocre works.


All religions are. People do not follow religions for doctrine.

They follow for culture, tradition fashion and peer pressure.

They almost all just follow their inherited Gods that their parents follow.

It is all about tribalism. Atheists have a hard time with this as most are not listening to their leaders and are not promoting the forming of atheist churches to fight that blind tribal instinct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2VjdpVonY

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DL



GnosticBishop
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07 Nov 2015, 8:18 pm

Neotenous Nordic wrote:
1 John 1:5

"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

I like that one.


It is rather good is it not?

It poses a question though. If in the beginning there was only God and light, and everything that is emenated from God as it would have to, where did the dark in Satan come from?

It had to come out of God because that was all there was.

Care to have a go at that question?

Who created darkness if not God?

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DL



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10 Nov 2015, 10:24 am

If God has a plan for everything, are people's sins part of his plan? :roll:


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10 Nov 2015, 10:48 am

Because I'm a blasphemous heathen, who listens to evil satanic music.


But no in all seriousness, never talked to the guy so couldn't say if he's actually condemned me or not.


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10 Nov 2015, 10:58 am

It's incorrect to state unilaterally that Christian dogma and traditions say that we are all condemned. The Orthodox Church - the oldest of the Christian Churches, which has preserved the Apostolic teachings - views this differently. For the Orthodox, the term ancestral sin (προπατορικό αμάρτημα) is preferred, and is used to define the doctrine of man's 'inclination towards sin, a heritage from the sin of our progenitors', and that this is removed through baptism. St. Gregory Palamas taught that man's image was tarnished as a result of Adam's disobedience.


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GnosticBishop
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10 Nov 2015, 10:59 am

Cockroach96 wrote:
If God has a plan for everything, are people's sins part of his plan? :roll:


Yes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWILhrSzw5o

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GnosticBishop
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10 Nov 2015, 11:01 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Because I'm a blasphemous heathen, who listens to evil satanic music.


But no in all seriousness, never talked to the guy so couldn't say if he's actually condemned me or not.


No one else ever has but yet millions think he did.

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GnosticBishop
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10 Nov 2015, 11:07 am

Hyperborean wrote:
It's incorrect to state unilaterally that Christian dogma and traditions say that we are all condemned. The Orthodox Church - the oldest of the Christian Churches, which has preserved the Apostolic teachings - views this differently. For the Orthodox, the term ancestral sin (προπατορικό αμάρτημα) is preferred, and is used to define the doctrine of man's 'inclination towards sin, a heritage from the sin of our progenitors', and that this is removed through baptism. St. Gregory Palamas taught that man's image was tarnished as a result of Adam's disobedience.


IOW.

I am correct to state unilaterally that Christian dogma and traditions say that we are all condemned and that it is removed through baptism.

The Eastern Orthodox Church is no better than most other Christian creeds.

St. James was not a bad thinker though compared to Paul.

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DL



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12 Nov 2015, 6:14 pm

God(Jesus?) loves everyone, except for the long list of people he doesn't.


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GnosticBishop
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13 Nov 2015, 7:32 am

Noca wrote:
God(Jesus?) loves everyone, except for the long list of people he doesn't.


That is biblical truth.

Not that there is any real truth in the bible.

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DL