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What's worse, white pride or white guilt/shame?
white pride 19%  19%  [ 11 ]
white guilt/shame 40%  40%  [ 23 ]
both 40%  40%  [ 23 ]
Total votes : 57

FizzyOrange
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14 Dec 2015, 12:35 am

I believe that white people should feel pride in who they are. Just acknowledge the past and don't put down others because they are different. I believe we are all beautiful and unique. I feel that everyone should feel that way about others and the skin they are in. So pride isn't so bad just as long as it doesn't become something that makes them hateful of others.

I definitely hate if a person feels ashamed because of our ugly history. My only requests are to never forget the past, recognize that there are many people of different races and ethnicities who are capable of great things, and be kind to others who are different.

Plus, it's wrong to shame people in that way. No one can help how they were born. If a negative history is attached, that's still not their fault. They can't do anything about that or the events that transpired centuries ago. I believe in judging people based on how they treat me and others.



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14 Dec 2015, 12:59 am

Fnord wrote:
What's worse is trying to make me feel guilt or shame for something someone else did 150 or more years ago.


i came here to say this.

Fnord wrote:
The women cooked, cleaned, gathered food, and bore the children.


did that leave the children to find ways to enthrall themselves


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14 Dec 2015, 1:38 am

I'm not too proud about the less savory parts of US history, gotta at least own it though and try to make it right. I certainly wouldn't cut myself into 12 or so pieces and mail them back to their nation of origin though.


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Kyle Katarn
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14 Dec 2015, 2:00 am

Why be proud or ashamed of belonging to a certain race? It was not your choice anyway. We are all humans regardless of skin color.



GGPViper
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14 Dec 2015, 6:14 am

If you are this:

Image

And achieve this:

Image

... then White pride is in order...

However, if you achieve this:

Image

... then you should be ashamed...


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kraftiekortie
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14 Dec 2015, 6:50 am

I only take pride in whatever successful deeds I have performed.

I only feel guilty if any of my actions caused harm.



LonelyJar
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14 Dec 2015, 2:48 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I only take pride in whatever successful deeds I have performed.

I only feel guilty if any of my actions caused harm.

Okay, but what about national pride? Do you think it's okay for a US citizen to be proud of where they live (or were born) by celebrating certain holidays unique to their country, even if their accomplishments are unrelated to the annual ceremonies?



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14 Dec 2015, 6:19 pm

Fnord wrote:
What's worse is trying to make me feel guilt or shame for something someone else did 150 or more years ago.


That happens here in Australia as well we're supposed to feel guilty over what happened 200 years ago when the British colonise Australia.



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14 Dec 2015, 8:44 pm

Pride in being American doesn't have much to do with White Pride, as practiced by the fringe element.

I'm proud to be an American, though I don't think about it constantly. I don't have an American flag in my house. I don't constantly salute the flag.

I am proud to have friends of many nationalities and many races My wife is of a different race from mine.

I'm proud we are a nation of immigrants, and that immigrants built America. I'm glad our experiment with relative democracy works relatively well about 250 years after we first attempted the experiment. Obviously, we're not near to perfect, and there's lots of problems in this country--but I'd rather be here than in most other countries of the world.

Our health care sucks. We have too many homeless for such a "rich" country. We still have de facto racial segregation in housing in many locales. We have many problems to solve.

I'm not proud of what Europeans did to the Native American population. It's a source of shame. But it's not "white shame." It's "European-shame." I'm of European origin, not "white" origin



cavernio
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14 Dec 2015, 9:58 pm

National pride is different from racial pride because there's actually a group of people who in a nation who are all very similar. There is a well-defined group of people who all have things in common. But in pure racial pride, there is little to be proud of that makes for a defined group wherein the people have common characteristics.


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14 Dec 2015, 10:38 pm

What's funny is these black people who blame the general white populous for slavery, even though most of us never had ancestors who owned slaves. Ironically, the white people who owned their ancestors most likely are also their ancestors (since slave owners often had their way...). So what they really hate is a part of themselves, but instead they project it onto others.



FizzyOrange
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14 Dec 2015, 11:40 pm

pineapplehead wrote:
What's funny is these black people who blame the general white populous for slavery, even though most of us never had ancestors who owned slaves. Ironically, the white people who owned their ancestors most likely are also their ancestors (since slave owners often had their way...). So what they really hate is a part of themselves, but instead they project it onto others.



I actually accept that part of myself, despite what you may think I know or don't. It's not a secret that that happened in the past. I also know that not all white people owned slaves. I don't blame nor do I hate anyone. I wish everyone could be happy, tolerant, and peaceful no matter who they are. Don't assume that we have some sort of hive mind and view things in a single, similar way.



pineapplehead
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15 Dec 2015, 1:19 am

FizzyOrange wrote:
Don't assume that we have some sort of hive mind and view things in a single, similar way.


I never said you do. You're putting words in my mouth.



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15 Dec 2015, 4:49 am

This whole thing seems to require a personal, emotional self identification with a particular group based on X characteristics or history. Believing you are that group. I've always had difficulty with this, and felt entirely removed.
I guess that makes the concept irrelevant to me. The only relevance would be that imposed on me by an outside source.


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15 Dec 2015, 2:14 pm

Its hard to argue that we don't at least benefit from past misdeeds. Slave labor was a pillar of the southern economy, I owe where I live to land-theft from the indigenous population. The holocaust acted as a wealth redistribution program, and most of the original owners were conveniently killed off, making reparations less likely.

Programs like affirmative action and provisions given to tribes at least try to make amends for the damage done in the past.

Things like guilt are personally felt, you can't just command someone to feel guilty. If I even think that someone is trying to make me experience guilt, I just assume it's part of a power-play and blow them off.


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Kiprobalhato
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16 Dec 2015, 3:14 pm

C2V wrote:
This whole thing seems to require a personal, emotional self identification with a particular group based on X characteristics or history. Believing you are that group. I've always had difficulty with this, and felt entirely removed.
I guess that makes the concept irrelevant to me. The only relevance would be that imposed on me by an outside source.


...this, i have that same difficulty. i think it requires a level of empathy i cant find in myself.


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