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Kraichgauer
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15 Feb 2016, 12:48 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Nothing wrong with voluntary eugenics.


If someone feels pressured, just the same, not to reproduce for reasons of race or disability, it certainly is. Are we Aspies supposed to voluntarily not have children? Because in that case, we might very well be denying the world of science the next Einstein, or the world of literature the next Lovecraft, or Kafka.

I underlined the word voluntary just for you. Here, I'll do it again but also in capps: VOLUNTARY
This is when a couple decides not to produce children that might inherit an undesirable hereditary handicap that one (or both) parents are afflicted with. They are hurting no one, but saving a then unconceived child from a future of hardships. If they still want kids there is always the option to adopt an unwanted existing one. There is no shortage of those in most places.


You seriously think disabled people don't live fulfilling lives?


Did I say that?
People with non-hereditary diseases and injuries can and often do live fulfilling lives but that doesn't make them good things to live with.
In the case of hereditary handicaps there's nothing wrong with pinching it off at a generation. No one is talking about mandating it.


It might not be mandated, but it certainly seems to be the case for social pressure, and that's not only wrong, but no one else' business.


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luan78zao
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15 Feb 2016, 12:48 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Theocracy is in the realm of conservative ideology.


And yet you want public policy to be guided by your religious ethics.

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And how do you know I haven't ever volunteered my time and money to a worthy cause?


I believe that my life belongs to me and the good is to live it. But if I thought that it was my moral duty to serve the poor, I would spend all my spare time serving the poor. I wouldn't be able to spend hours and hours in online discussions, and I wouldn't have 25,000 posts here or anywhere else.

I am familiar with the parable of the widow's mite even if you're not.

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By the way, talk to the religious wing of your party


I don't have a party. Wish I had.

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about their and my "imaginary friend," and you'll get an earful. Ask Raptor about his "imaginary friend."


I have many friends who believe in one religion or another. Presumably they pray for my soul. Oddly enough, the conservative Christians are far more tolerant of my atheism than the left-wing secular types have been of my advocacy of liberty.


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frenchmanflats
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15 Feb 2016, 12:51 am

luan78zao


Excellent post



Kraichgauer
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15 Feb 2016, 12:54 am

luan78zao wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Theocracy is in the realm of conservative ideology.


And yet you want public policy to be guided by your religious ethics.

Quote:
And how do you know I haven't ever volunteered my time and money to a worthy cause?


I believe that my life belongs to me and the good is to live it. But if I thought that it was my moral duty to serve the poor, I would spend all my spare time serving the poor. I wouldn't be able to spend hours and hours in online discussions, and I wouldn't have 25,000 posts here or anywhere else.

I am familiar with the parable of the widow's mite even if you're not.

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By the way, talk to the religious wing of your party


I don't have a party. Wish I had.

Quote:
about their and my "imaginary friend," and you'll get an earful. Ask Raptor about his "imaginary friend."


I have many friends who believe in one religion or another. Presumably they pray for my soul. Oddly enough, the conservative Christians are far more tolerant of my atheism than the left-wing secular types have been of my advocacy of liberty.


There's a huge difference between advocating for the poor and oppressed due to religious values, and the rule of religious institutions.
And I'd imagine the reason why those religious conservatives are more tolerant of your atheism is because you and they share similar right wing secular ideologies.


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15 Feb 2016, 12:56 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
It might not be mandated, but it certainly seems to be the case for social pressure,....

Nothing can be done about social pressure except to cowboy up to it as an individual and work past it.

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...and that's not only wrong, but no one else' business.

For the third time: VOLUNTARY EUGENICS
How long before you go ad hominem with this and call me Dr. Mengele?
:roll:


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Raptor
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15 Feb 2016, 1:02 am

luan78zao wrote:
Christians are far more tolerant of my atheism than the left-wing secular types have been of my advocacy of liberty.

There it is right there with the word "tolerant". I discovered long ago that there is nothing tolerant or liberal about what passes for liberalism. They are all about in-your-face control and coercion.


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Kraichgauer
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15 Feb 2016, 1:07 am

Raptor wrote:
luan78zao wrote:
Christians are far more tolerant of my atheism than the left-wing secular types have been of my advocacy of liberty.

There it is right there with the word "tolerant". I discovered long ago that there is nothing tolerant or liberal about what passes for liberalism. They are all about in-your-face control and coercion.


Uh huh. Ask gays fighting for their rights today about that. Talk to blacks who had been in the civil rights movement about that. Or poor or disabled people who live in fear of their benefits being cut by conservative legislatures. They'll tell you how the right is allegedly so tolerant. And when have conservatives ever had their rights curtailed by the left, save for being shouted down?


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15 Feb 2016, 1:23 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
luan78zao wrote:
Christians are far more tolerant of my atheism than the left-wing secular types have been of my advocacy of liberty.

There it is right there with the word "tolerant". I discovered long ago that there is nothing tolerant or liberal about what passes for liberalism. They are all about in-your-face control and coercion.


Uh huh. Ask gays fighting for their rights today about that. Talk to blacks who had been in the civil rights movement about that. Or poor or disabled people who live in fear of their benefits being cut by conservative legislatures. They'll tell you how the right is allegedly so tolerant. And when have conservatives ever had their rights curtailed by the left, save for being shouted down?


Uh, conservatism does not profess to be open minded or liberal and never has. It's the hypocrisy of the liberals that I'm talking about. Just in this forum alone we have seen liberals, not conservatives or libertarians, advocating violence and censorship against things they simply don't like.


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Kraichgauer
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15 Feb 2016, 1:29 am

Raptor wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
luan78zao wrote:
Christians are far more tolerant of my atheism than the left-wing secular types have been of my advocacy of liberty.

There it is right there with the word "tolerant". I discovered long ago that there is nothing tolerant or liberal about what passes for liberalism. They are all about in-your-face control and coercion.


Uh huh. Ask gays fighting for their rights today about that. Talk to blacks who had been in the civil rights movement about that. Or poor or disabled people who live in fear of their benefits being cut by conservative legislatures. They'll tell you how the right is allegedly so tolerant. And when have conservatives ever had their rights curtailed by the left, save for being shouted down?


Uh, conservatism does not profess to be open minded or liberal and never has. It's the hypocrisy of the liberals that I'm talking about. Just in this forum alone we have seen liberals, not conservatives or libertarians, advocating violence and censorship against things they simply don't like.


Unless you can prove that I have, then that means nothing to me. I refuse to be grouped with a$$holes simply because of shared political ideology, race, or religion. And I hardly think all liberals threaten violence. Or even most.


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15 Feb 2016, 2:17 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
No one's coming after anyone with torches and pitchforks. It's no giant feat to triumph over mere opinion. For the second time, it gets back to being having just a little fortitude and will.


That's easy for you and I to say, but there are people who are marginalized, and treated with utter contempt. Public disapproval is a very real force of oppression.


I assure you it would only strengthen my will.


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15 Feb 2016, 3:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
That's easy for you and I to say, but there are people who are marginalized, and treated with utter contempt. Public disapproval is a very real force of oppression.


Think about what you just said, then think about how you and a good 3/4 of this board talk about conservatives.


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frenchmanflats
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15 Feb 2016, 4:04 am

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
That's easy for you and I to say, but there are people who are marginalized, and treated with utter contempt. Public disapproval is a very real force of oppression.


Think about what you just said, then think about how you and a good 3/4 of this board talk about conservatives.



I agree



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15 Feb 2016, 11:58 am

Dox47 wrote:
Think about what you just said, then think about how you and a good 3/4 of this board talk about conservatives.


I've seen plenty of conservatives write mean and nasty things themselves, I blame the internet.


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Dox47
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15 Feb 2016, 2:06 pm

MDD123 wrote:
I've seen plenty of conservatives write mean and nasty things themselves, I blame the internet.


I'm not impressed with moral equivalency, it's not an argument, and besides the point, which is that someone who's saying one thing while doing another might want to reconsider both.


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20 Mar 2016, 12:12 am

auntblabby wrote:
the righties are gonna get their sweet revenge after 8 years, they are gonna start whacking working class folk left and right. denial of affordable health care is just the start.


You mean "Unaffordable Care". There used to be guy on here called Longshanks. I know him because we fought side by side. Heck of a guy. Best tactical search and rescue commander I ever saw. He won 29 battles and never lost a man. Always brought people home alive. He used to investigate medical fraud for the Feds. If you want to know why we have such a deficit, you should listen to him spout off the medical fraud figures - all verifiable. Don't believe everything the libs tell you. Last I heard, he works for a consulting company now - and that's what he does is consult on medical fraud. People have no idea what a fraud Obamacare is - but Longshanks can show you if anyone can.


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20 Mar 2016, 12:15 am

Mongoose1 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
the righties are gonna get their sweet revenge after 8 years, they are gonna start whacking working class folk left and right. denial of affordable health care is just the start.


You mean "Unaffordable Care". There used to be guy on here called Longshanks. I know him because we fought side by side. Heck of a guy. Best tactical search and rescue commander I ever saw. He won 29 battles and never lost a man. Always brought people home alive. He used to investigate medical fraud for the Feds. If you want to know why we have such a deficit, you should listen to him spout off the medical fraud figures - all verifiable. Don't believe everything the libs tell you. Last I heard, he works for a consulting company now - and that's what he does is consult on medical fraud. People have no idea what a fraud Obamacare is - but Longshanks can show you if anyone can.

it was the first affordable care available to me in years. without the subsidies my premiums would be $500+ per month, I don't know who outside of Richie rich who could afford that.