canada to experiment with universal basic income

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do you like the idea of a universal basic income?
YES!! ! :cheers: 70%  70%  [ 30 ]
NO!! ! :x 19%  19%  [ 8 ]
I dunno :shrug: 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
I wanna nice yummy sherbet :chef: 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 43

auntblabby
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29 Mar 2016, 10:19 pm

in the long run, I believe UBI will pay for itself in increased overall productivity/creativity with its concomitant increased tax revenues.



MrLucky
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29 Mar 2016, 10:19 pm

auntblabby wrote:
I suppose this can only happen when enough hearts soften, when the power of love exceeds the love of power, when enough middle and upper-class people can cease scapegoating the working class long enough to see pragmatic reason.


I used to be a conservative hardliner, I guess the only part of that left in me is I'm "Mr. NRA," but I don't want to discuss it here for now, if you disagree, we will have to agree to disagree for now and move on. I just wanted to say I've evolved over time.

I still see myself as "center/right." I learned that to be a true conservative/libertarian, one has to learn to think for oneself and not parrot the party line all the time. I realized that since I'm different from most people, I changed a lot where I can sympathize with those that are outside the social norm and so forth. I used to be anti-gay but not anymore, I just thought, "hey, they are different from the general social norm that society has laid down for us" like I am. I know what it is like to be different plus I have gay friends too, many of which helped me through the loss of my mother. I guess, it took me a while to "get the message" but being an Aspie (I'm not officially diagnosed but I have a lot of traits plus when I was little in the late 1960'sand early 1970's, I did show up on the autism spectrum in tests) mellowed me a bit. Yeah, there are times you have to be hard but that should be a last resort.

I guess getting the shaft many times in my life made me take stock in things too, it seems like many of us here have had that happen to them too. I can see why some of us tend to look at those scapegoating us and poor people with the stink-eye, it hurts to be tossed back and fail even though we are trying our best.



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29 Mar 2016, 10:25 pm

auntblabby wrote:
in the long run, I believe UBI will pay for itself in increased overall productivity/creativity with its concomitant increased tax revenues.


Agreed. I'll be working at a call center, hopefully it will be secure, dunno, but we will see. I do agree where if we had UBI (or whatever you want to call it), it would pay off a lot more where I can put my mind into something I love, enjoy and have a strong aptitude for so I can turn that into a career or even be an entrepreneur if I get together with my cousin. My cousin and I talk about this a lot too where this is a good idea.

I think it would even benefit companies too. If UBI is like $20K a year, for sake of argument, and if I get my way and a company wants to hire me for my developed talent at $40K a year, they will only have to pay me $20K a year instead of the who $40K because UBI kicks in the first $20K. Also, if UBI covers healthcare and so forth, the company will not have to worry about that along with the first $20K. So it would cost them only $20K to hire me instead of $40K plus benefits.



auntblabby
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29 Mar 2016, 10:34 pm

^^^ :wtg:



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30 Mar 2016, 11:29 pm

MrLucky wrote:
Lukeda420 wrote:
I'm seeing a pretty good amount of agreement between liberals and libertarians on this. It's nice to see when everything is so divided.


I know even Milton Friedman also advocated the Swiss idea of a guaranteed wage. There is support for it on both sides of the spectrum. I think the problem is that here in America and the Western World, especially the former, is we are too married to the Puritan Work Ethic. Yeah, it does have its virtue but as time marches on, it does have its negative side too. It was more appropriate in a world of a pioneer culture and in medieval times of the serfdom era. We are not sod-breakers, for the most part, anymore and I'm sure that if many people did not have to worry where their next meal is coming from and so forth with the effort just to survive, I believe most of us, be it NT or Aspie, would take the time freed from a drudge job to better ourselves by going to school or working at a hobby to learn something and turn it into a career. I'm a ham radio operator, I'd love to work in radio-electronics and software defined radio, perhaps a guaranteed income would give me enough to get started and to learn while me not worrying how to make ends meet so I can find my niche and so on. My cousin, I think he has a touch of Asperger's too, there are times he tells me "his family doesn't understand him" so I know the feeling, I'm the only one he is open with, we both have had strange paranormal experiences too, most laugh at us except us. Getting back to the subject, I think such an idea would give me time to experiment with SD Radio, take programming classes and so on while giving me enough to live on and take care of my two cats.

The Puritan work ethic had its time and place, but those things are no more. I think we as a society need to break away from it. Unfortunately, that may not happen any time soon since we have an aging population, at least in Canada.


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marshall
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02 Apr 2016, 6:20 pm

auntblabby wrote:
I suppose this can only happen when enough hearts soften, when the power of love exceeds the love of power, when enough middle and upper-class people can cease scapegoating the working class long enough to see pragmatic reason.

I find that it is traditional conservatives who have a big fear of segment of "free-loaders" being a burden on everyone else. It isn't as much of a concern for pragmatic libertarians who are more interested in parsimonious solutions than the Randian swim-or-sink mentality of hard-line right-wingers.



MrLucky
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03 Apr 2016, 7:36 pm

marshall wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
I suppose this can only happen when enough hearts soften, when the power of love exceeds the love of power, when enough middle and upper-class people can cease scapegoating the working class long enough to see pragmatic reason.

I find that it is traditional conservatives who have a big fear of segment of "free-loaders" being a burden on everyone else. It isn't as much of a concern for pragmatic libertarians who are more interested in parsimonious solutions than the Randian swim-or-sink mentality of hard-line right-wingers.


Yeah, also I think that if you are against a big, nanny government with oodles of "alphabet soup" agencies, this could be the way to go. You'd replace a huge welfare beaucracy of overlapping agencies, the Social Security Administration and so forth. You'd just have one system to run it and perhaps another for the medical size and that could be it. When a child is born, they would get half the UBI for the family to help raise them and the other half would be held in escrow for a nest egg when they reach maturity, it would be put in an interest bearing account do it would grow. Also, higher education would be available without worry of how to pay for it, but one also should demonstrate an aptitude and desire for it as well. I think where the both sides of the debate get it wrong is with people, there are some people who will over achieve, others will be bum, other will be inbetween and many will never realize their dream or at least try to because they are stuck economically and so on. I think this idea will help out with that. I'd like to give it a try and see what happens. I'd also toy with the idea of a 20 or 30 hour work week as well with same pay, that;s a little OT but still we might have to do that down the line.



auntblabby
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03 Apr 2016, 7:53 pm

:thumright: ^^^ :thumleft:



pcuser
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04 Apr 2016, 1:50 pm

nurseangela wrote:
So the OP expects to get paid for doing nothing? The article doesn't take into account how hospitalizations will be paid and what about housing? $800-1,000 a month will hardly cover food and such. And I'm sure these people wanting to get paid for sitting on their asses will want a vehicle and a cell phone to boot. How is all that going to be paid for?

We're going to raise your taxes for it...



auntblabby
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04 Apr 2016, 1:58 pm

a wall street transaction tax would pay for it, easily.



pcuser
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05 Apr 2016, 7:13 pm

Here is something to consider concerning a scarcity of jobs in the near future.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr ... d18b5d79c9



auntblabby
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05 Apr 2016, 7:43 pm

bad link.



pcuser
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05 Apr 2016, 7:50 pm

It just now worked for me. It's titled Why Everyone Must Get Ready For 4th Industrial Revolution. You must wait 3 seconds to click to the article. It's what Forbes does...



auntblabby
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05 Apr 2016, 7:59 pm

page locked up puter. reset, now page loads, must've been outta memory.



auntblabby
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05 Apr 2016, 8:06 pm

47% of jobs to vanish due to automation. fasten your seat belts, it's gonna be a bumpy ride.



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05 Apr 2016, 9:39 pm

And they aren't even counting 3D printing. I've heard it said that 3D printing is the first step toward Star Trek replicators. How accurate that last statement ism I don't know. But, it sure sounds feasible.