Posting a non-cynical opinion on L&D...

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nick007
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22 Mar 2016, 2:30 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
^ Not only that, people, and especially women, would quickly assume you're "sexually frusturated" because you said you're virgin.
I have experienced that first hand when I was virgin.
I experienced that too & I'm sort of on the aSexuality spectrum & didn't really want sex outside of a committed relationship.


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yellowtamarin
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22 Mar 2016, 6:13 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Yellow, do we think all us guys are inventing this about her? Why don't you believe me?
Yes, she said that.

You can't find them because they delete them, plus she has 1000+ different usernames.

What? We've covered this. I believe you. I said they must be the deleted ones and are not the ones I'm talking about. I said there are plenty of others that haven't been deleted that have been interpreted overly negatively. THEY are the ones I'm talking about. Like I said, if it's blatantly offensive and bad advice, obviously don't bother with it. But it's not useful to twist around the wording of advice that wasn't so bad before it was twisted.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Here:

Quote:
2. There are 3.5 billion women on the planet. Bob is still a virgin. Either all females on Earth got together and collectively agreed to never, ever date or have sex with him OR Bob's behavior results in no woman on Earth wanting to have sex with him. The former is pretty darn close to logistically impossible, so the latter's the case.


https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopi ... 0&start=30

Again, it's something she said it billion of times.

That's a great example. Nobody is being offended (and I don't think she was talking directly to Bob anyway? I think he's a made up character?). You could interpret it that she's saying nothing will ever change for Bob, Bob is a loser, nobody will ever want to have sex with Bob no matter what...OR...you could interpret it that she's saying Bob's current behaviour is not working out for him, as shown by the fact that nobody yet on Earth has wanted to have sex with him (that's an observation of fact, albeit she omits the part where people may have wanted to but he didn't pick up in the hints or whatever), so perhaps he could work on his behaviour to change that.

That's just one example of how it could be interpreted usefully without anyone getting insulted.



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22 Mar 2016, 6:50 pm

Cryptonerd, you prove my point; I'd have had no idea whatsoever you had all of those extra difficulties on-top of Apsergers, and simply thought you were an aspie male with 'a high number of female friends' and possible dating success.

My argument was that if you have difficulties and hardships as well, you aren't expressing it enough in your posts to come across as relatable to the other males here.

My success level is about the same as yours, possibly even slightly better, as I only have Asperger's (and economic/environmental problems such as lower middle class background, dysfunctional family, etc.) but have had at least two short-term relationships.

But I still come across as relatable as I clearly express what difficulties I have had with pursuing the opposite sex. Never have I recieved the backlash you have because I've clearly stated, despite having had two girlfriends already, I've been rejected about 40 times and gone into detail about some betrayals or other unfortunate events that have happened to me.



yellowtamarin
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22 Mar 2016, 7:21 pm

CryptoNerd wrote:
Why do people assume that if a guy is romantically unsuccessful, that automatically means he's bitter? I hate this attitude ...

I don't know. Why do people assume anything at all? What's wrong with reading the advice/input and seeing whether it might be relevant and/or useful, no matter who it comes from?

And especially on a forum where the members are not known for being highly skilled in "relating to others" and other social dances...shouldn't this be a place where it's understood that the people posting might have something very worthwhile to say, even if they haven't been able to express it in a way that appeals to the masses?

I'm a female aspie with a fair amount of dating success. That's actually one of the reasons I post on here a lot! Because I feel I might have some useful advice for some people, because I come from a different angle to many other posters. Should I stop posting, because I'm not struggling enough? Should I make sure I say in every post that yes, despite being here to tell you something I hope is useful, don't worry I've been rejected and failed at things too? Just so others can "relate" to me? This doesn't seem very productive to me, to insist on including negatives when the purpose is to build others up.

For a bunch of people often labelled as being too logical and lacking in emotions, we sure do tend to be quite sensitive about things ;)



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22 Mar 2016, 8:35 pm

You're very level-headed and the vast majority of what you say yellowtamarin, I agree with and think is true.

But I can still understand why some may react sensitively to more successful people giving advice.

Logically, a more successful person's advice should actually inspire one, because the more successful person 'should' know what they're talking about.

But I do find sometimes people more successful may show a lack of understanding to a disadvantaged person and/or have forgotten just how hard it was to be in that position.

I'm saying, a baby boomer who worked hard and is now a CEO, can't tell a young millenial of today the same advice, because the world isn't the same.

The economy in the U.S. and Australia is worse, there are less jobs available today despite rising unemployment rates, the young person may well have a disability of some kinds, including Asperger's or others.

Just like the popular kids in high school usually were from a more privileged background and while they did put some work and effort into their lives, it was mainly their vast connections and support network, something others my be lacing, that got them where they are today.

Their opinions and views, while having some value, lose credibility once they talk to those that were naturally at a bigger disadvantage.

It is biased and discriminatory, but advice is harder to accept when it comes from a source that has never known what the people they are giving advice to has been through.

Now I know Cryptonerd's views have more credibility as he has 'known struggle' as well.

Not saying it's justified or okay to give someone's views less credibility just because they haven't 'known struggle', just that it is what it is.



yellowtamarin
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22 Mar 2016, 9:48 pm

Outrider wrote:
Not saying it's justified or okay to give someone's views less credibility just because they haven't 'known struggle', just that it is what it is.

Yeah, that's basically the truth of it. Most of the time I just run with that ("it is what it is") and move on. But I think it's worth exploring on occasion - worth putting the suggestion out there to question why one is being perhaps overly negative/defensive or resistant to advice.

And I do understand the mentality at least from a certain perspective. Whenever I go through depression, I have that inclination to criticise advice, to basically decide (subconsciously) that whatever someone is about to say isn't going to work for me, and then easily come up with an argument against it, or interpret it in that overly pessimistic way that depressed people do. It's terribly hard to change that mentality when deep inside depression. Nevertheless I would expect people to pull me up on my overly negative attitude, in the hope that I've still got enough rational brain left to see what I'm doing and try to shift my thinking.

(And I tend to stay away from WP when I'm depressed because I know my posts just aren't going to be productive.)

So I do *get* it, but I think it's still worth fighting against, as (as far as I know) it doesn't ever help anyone to think that way.



The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Mar 2016, 5:33 am

Quote:
That's a great example. Nobody is being offended (and I don't think she was talking directly to Bob anyway? I think he's a made up character?). You could interpret it that she's saying nothing will ever change for Bob, Bob is a loser, nobody will ever want to have sex with Bob no matter what...OR...you could interpret it that she's saying Bob's current behaviour is not working out for him, as shown by the fact that nobody yet on Earth has wanted to have sex with him (that's an observation of fact, albeit she omits the part where people may have wanted to but he didn't pick up in the hints or whatever), so perhaps he could work on his behaviour to change that.

That's just one example of how it could be interpreted usefully without anyone getting insulted.



Whatever....

You win, but let's just stop this.

Peace.



Jacoby
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23 Mar 2016, 9:39 pm

I think cynicism and bitterness is probably the natural reaction most people would have in our situations, I just try to focus on what is in front of me and whatever stupid thing is interesting me at whatever given time. I think most of my anger is turned against myself, I can't be mad at other people for not wanting anything to do with me just myself and whatever supernatural forces and happenstance that has cursed my existence. It is very depressing but when you extinguish all your social capital and mature much slower than others, it's almost impossible to catch back up and I have more issues than just relationships. Just existing in the world as a functional person is hard enough, trying to start from scratch at 24? Good luck with that. I just feel like the sands in the hourglass will run out eventually, you can't just continue on existing with no purpose.



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Mar 2016, 5:05 am