To diagnose or not to diagnose?

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Thanks -- and for all the time and support you've given as well!

Truth is I've sort of been in a state of shock. It's been only a couple of weeks since i even recognized the possibility that I was autistic. I've come to grips with much of what I experienced but the truth is I've gone through life as someone who was eccentric and experienced a lot of pain for that but not as someone who was clocked as autistic (well, probably not true when I was little but no one knew then). And I realize I've become masterful at avoiding e.g. meltdowns and shutdowns without knowing what I was doing -- I just naturally engaged in avoidant behavior. So frex when someone upsets me I can usually hold it in, and then that night when I'm alone I melt down in private. Part of that is stimming behavior but it's subtle, I noticed myself now doing it all the time but with small movements (toe tapping, fingers, etc.) rather than large ones. And one of my big problems is that I avoid doing things I have to. I discovered why this is when a psychologist, as an experiment, pressed me on something about which I had anxiety and I became catatonic. I think I learned to avoid that stuff as a little boy, as I clawed myself away from catatonia and then mutism. And it just became overwhelming emotional avoidance, the reasons repressed or forgotten.

I've noticed that my sensory symptoms appear to be kind of mild (can't stand itchy shirts, jump when a motorcycle goes by, etc.) so my meltdowns tend to be emotionally caused which I think helps as well.


I know what you mean about being a boy man. I feel the same way but in the feminine. And people criticize me about it sometimes too but I don't care anymore. My mature side is not ingenuine by any means. It is very real and like I stated in my earlier post, I don’t control which age comes out when. I have learned to turn off and hide the child side when needed but I can’t control when it comes. But I have noticed that when I let all the walls down, when all my guards are down and I am most relaxed or when I am too tired to keep any guards up, I naturally become my youngest self. When I am more intellectual and more adult and taking care of adult things, I am very guarded. My speech is more formal and even the tone of my voice is more mature. So I have concluded that my most authentic, most natural self is my youngest self. So you might find that out as well.

It will be interesting to see what age you feel and function at when you are the most relaxed without any guards up. As you release your anxiety and get more comfortable in who you are, you will have more and more moments where you are totally relaxed and you will be able to tell by what you want to do or perhaps, even like me, how your speech, processing and perceiving things goes.

That is interesting. I'm also interested in the fact that the psychologist was able to bring out, if only temporarily, the aggressive, confident, adult male part that I've never had access to. And there's a certain conflict there because that side has a lot of utility but I don't really like it much. Just the confidence part, that's useful.


Sounds like you had a very difficult childhood. You also mentioned you did not have a family. That can definitely affect how you process emotional things very much. The other thing to consider as well is that it can also be an Autism thing. One of the things that makes Autistic people Autistic is processing speed. It’s one of the things they test for when you get your diagnostic testing done. Actually quite a few parts of the comprehensive 8 hour test that I took were to determine processing speed. Processing speed for Autistics is much slower than it is for NT’s. To give you an example from my life, it was determined in my testing that I receive stimuli in the 87th percentile but my brain processes that input in the 30th percentile. This is not just a measurement for sensory input but it works the same way for emotional things as well.

I did have a difficult childhood but I had a family, sorry if I was unclear. And one of the things I'm asking myself is how bad my family really was. Well, I've always asked that. It isn't as if we were beaten and starved. It was more emotional pathology. The picture I'm now getting is one of a BAP or Aspie mother who lacked empathy, couldn't express love, was too blunt, etc. In other words, a lot like me. When I tried hugging my mother as an adult (not natural to me), she went rigid as a board! And there were other issues that I know about. I weaned myself, which kids aren't supposed to do, and shut down and wouldn't talk. So what I'm thinking now is that both my mom and I had autistic characteristics and that this impaired her ability to be a mother and at the same time made me more needy and sensitive to adversity.

I know that my processing speed for symbols is low and way out of sync with my IQ, which is above 160 (the limit of the test I was given as a child). And I'm always the last one to get a joke! So that could correlate with deficits in both emotional and perceptual processing speed.

So with emotional things, we have a lot of emotional stuff going on as Autistics because we don’t really filter anything. So when we feel emotions we can feel them at such intense avalanche proportions that they completely overwhelm us. And then the brain is slow to process the information so it causes a back log. And the other thing that one of my Autistic friends taught me is that our brains can only focus on processing emotional stuff when it is not being overwhelmed with sensory stuff. So when it has to process sensory overload stuff, it has to put the emotional stuff on the back burner until it has a break from the sensory stuff and then it pulls up bits of emotional stuff to process. So we end processing emotional things in small chunks so you can go decades and still be trying to process emotional stuff. So yes, it will go much slower than for NTs. There are things that my NT brother and sister can process in a matter of days and it takes me years. And stuff that I consider traumatic can take decades.

I feel emotions so strongly! If someone does something even slightly upsetting -- not listening to what I'm saying, for example -- it can ruin half my day. The other day, i had to fill out a single-page form that took all of five seconds but was unnecessary bureaucracy and got so upset that I had a mini-meltdown. I was supposed to finish two copies but had to tell my psychologist that I was unable to do the second. And it's so frustrating, because intellectually I say to myself come on, this is silly but it would take all of five minutes to fill out and mail the two forms. I've been struggling with this all my life. Lately, I've discovered EMDR and mindfulness and I'm finding that both are a help in dealing with some of this stuff. If I do EMDR on myself for example before I do something that I was procrastinating about I can do it. So it seems that while I'll never be neurotypical I can at least make progress and become more functional. I just have to work really hard at it, the way someone with a learning disability has to work really hard at intellectual tasks that I find easy.


It’s also hard because I tend to suffer from the emotional equivalent of PTSD. This is because of the lack of brain filters and dampeners that we have combined with the super slow processing speed. I will tell you how it works for me but I know that other Autistics have told me that it is the same for them. When I go through an emotional trauma, and my emotional traumas could be things that NT’s don’t even notice, but if I go through something, then everything in my life that I have every gone through which is similar will come back to me with the same raw emotion as it did when it originally happened. And I could have multiple things come up at once and since I am very visual, they come up like movies in full color and HD playing in my head. So all of a sudden my brain gets hit with all this emotional stuff and it gets completely overwhelmed. So it has to do it all in small chunks therefore, taking pretty much forever. But yes, the trauma you had as a kid will affect that very much as well, and that trauma was most likely heightened because you were an Autistic kid.[/quote]
In my case, the emotions come, but the images usually don't. I seem able to repress them and that corresponds with my observation and test results that I have relatively mild perceptual symptoms compared to most people here -- I seem to have partly functioning perceptual filters, though my sensitivity to bright light, cold, light touch, and so forth are Aspie traits. What does happen is that the emotions can be massive and aren't easily resolved. As I said, I've been doing EMDR and I've spent days sobbing as I remembered childhood traumas. But they resolve only very slowly and the therapist was puzzled over that, she said anyone else in her experience would have gotten past them long ago. Now for the first time I think I understand why.

The same thing happens to me but I don’t become catatonic. but I remember reading that some Autistics do get catatonic. I get selective mutism though. But it is very easy to get me emotional and once I get to where I am dominantly emotional, I automatically revert to my younger selves. Sometimes it takes a while to get my speech back. And people misinterpret it all the time as defiance. It's so annoying because they don't realize that I am actually hurting and then to be called defiant and to get disciplined for that hurts worse and makes it more difficult for me to recover. Then I tend to lose trust and that takes effort to rebuild.
I've also noticed that, when I'm under pressure, it's very hard for me to speak. Frequently, that's when I'm trying to ask for help that I really need.

One of the things that I'm starting to realize is that a diagnosis of Asperger's really would be a help in some circumstances because it's hard for people to understand just how handicapped I am emotionally. Like you, I've been misunderstood again and again. If people know that I can't recognize faces, they won't be hurt when I don't. If people know how emotionally punishing even the slightest criticism is, or how socially anxious I am perhaps as a result of that, maybe they'll make allowances. Etc.

Yeah, we were taught that to be accepted we had to appear as NT as possible so it became a survival mode. That is why we are so good at it. And after doing it for decades you do it without realizing it. You do get vey exhausted and burned out though but unless you understand what is happening you don’t associate the social exhaustion and burnout with masking NT because you have been doing that for so long that you think you are doing it naturally. But really you are not. You are just not aware of the effort it takes for you to do it.

It's so great to see this from a new perspective.


Sensitivities can change with different circumstances. Stress levels can really heighten them so you may have been much more stressed in your childhood which would make you more susceptible do sensory overload. Also remember that the online quizzes might not give you the most accurate portrayal of yourself. Some of them are really good but some of those questions are poorly asked and you can misread what they are really asking and answer them in ways that give you a false reading. That is why a real diagnostic test, a good comprehensive one, is a good idea because it is designed to be as accurate as it can be. Some of the sections are also very specifically designed so that you cannot fool them. And you can score high in some areas and not as high in others. No Autistic person is exactly like another. You may have some areas where Autistic traits and symptoms are much stronger. The diagnostic criteria has several sections and you don’t have to have every single thing in it to be Autistic. There are a minimum amount of things you must have but not all of them.
Yes, I've struggled with many of the questions on the tests, sometimes because it's hard to remember what I was like when I was younger (but a lot of that is starting to come back as I think about this stuff), sometimes because I just don't know (Do I look more at people I like than those I don't? I never even thought about it), often because the questions require a subjective assessment. However, I've gone through the tests under various assumptions, e.g., when there's a benefit of a doubt answering in the most neurotypical way possible. And the results don't change that much, I seem to be a mild Aspie or an unusually autistic BAP person. So on the RAADS-R, for example, I can push my score around some, but it's always in the ASD range, and the only way I could get it to budge would be to answer in a ridiculous way. (I've also noticed in the RAADS-R that I'd answer many more questions positively if they weren't extreme, for example it might say "Do you find it extremely difficult to" but I only find it difficult.)

Comparing myself by way of history to family and friends who are clearly BAP, I'm much more autistic than they are and have had a lot more difficulty in life as a result. (By the way, one of the things that convinced me that they really are BAP is that of my three closest friend in high school, one has an autistic child and one has no kids of his own but an autistic nephew -- in addition to which I suspect that the third is himself an Aspie. So I can't just write the BAP hypothesis off, it fits like a glove with the research that says that half the close relatives of autistic kids are BAP.) Comparing myself to many Aspies, I can read facial expressions, my meltdowns are more controllable (and my shutdowns avoidable), my perceptual issues less problematic, my stimming not obvious, my voice monotonous but not completely devoid of expression. But in other areas such as systematization, obsession, face blindness, selective mutism, shut downs, lack of empathy, and all the social stuff, I'm very autistic. I suspect I'll be diagnosed as an Aspie but really, the impact for me at this point would be mostly psychological, since I understand now that I'm on the autistic continuum and that much of what I'd attributed to my upbringing is actually something I was born with, and that will be true whether I'm ultimately diagnosed as BAP or mild ASD.

I have had similar thought patterns. Sometimes I can’t manage to get a task done at all because I paralyze myself with my thought patterns. I am pretty sure that is an Autism thing as well. It’s part of the anxiety that we tend to be really good at.


Yep, that is totally common Autistic behavior. I am exactly the same way.

I've been learning so much from reading the experiences of others here. In a way, it's a lot more compelling than the test results.

Sounds like you are on a good track here Josh![/quote]
I'm thinking -- hoping -- that I can learn emotionally, it's just that it takes a lot more work, just as it takes us more work to figure out how to behave in social situations. I'd actually made huge progress in the year before I learned I might be an Aspie -- practically overcoming things like my aversion to human touch.

Wow, that's so awful. The cruelty of people never ceases to amaze me.

I'm always the last to get a joke but rather than ask I'll just say "Oh, took me a while to get it" and people seem OK with that, since it happens to everybody sometimes. And even when I do get the joke, a lot of stuff that seems funny to others doesn't seem funny to me. When something doesn't seem funny I just pretend to chuckle. This kind of behavior has become so habitual that I don't even remember when or why I first did that.

Other stuff -- well, yeah, I cringe when I think of what other people have done. But most of that ended with my teenage years. Not that I improved (though I suppose to some degree I did), but that kids and teens are cruel. In my experience, when an adult picks up on something they don't usually mention it. You can see that they're reacting to something but they don't say anything, not in the US, anyway -- the British are seriously sarcastic and will also make nasty comments about you within hearing range.

That's great. And I wouldn't mind doing something about itchy legs. Sometimes I get so itchy I can't sleep at all.

Thanks, Wave Tossed. One thing I know, I'm not going to stop obsessing about it until I do! I'm guessing my insurance would have to pay as well but knowing my insurance company that isn't a guarantee that they actually would.

I've heard a lot of people with jobs such as engineering have aspergers or ASD.

Given the general advantages (being able to put all your focus into something your interested in) from being an aspie, I would say getting a diagnosis would probably help you get a job as an engineer.
It might be different with other jobs though, especially jobs that require social skills.

You should talk to your family first. When I first realised I might have AS, I first talked to my mother, who noted that she'd wondered about it herself since I was very small. Talk to your parents about how you acted when you were little, maybe that will give you some insight. For example, I used to offend people left and right without meaning to, I hated working with other people, I did things methodically, I was very secluded, I was extremely emotional, and I cried at the tiniest noises. I think it's more pronounced when you're young (that's what my psychiatrist told me anyway).
Personally, I'm going through a diagnosis dilemma. I'm officially diagnosed with AS, but my therapist is thinking it may be a "lower functioning" form of Autism (as much as I hate that descriptor). Think it through, read experiences of other AS individuals, and see if you can relate.

I'm already an engineer. And you're right, it really suits me. The only problems I had (and they could be major) were dealing with corporate politics and such. I always struggled with the people side of things but got along great with most of my fellow techies.

And this is interesting -- of my three closest friends in high school, two became programmers. We were basically the kids who were into technology. And of those three friends, one has an autistic kid, another adopted but has an autistic nephew, and I think in retrospect that the third is an Aspie himself. So I think my three closest HS friends were either BAP or ASD.

Thanks, i wish I could talk it over with my parents but they're both gone now. So all I have are personal recollections, family stories, school reports and such. And since they didn't know about Asperger's when I was a kid I think a lot of behaviors that would immediately arouse suspicion today were attributed to other things. The main one being me refusing to talk for three years, heh. But I look back and I an see signs but the evidence is so frustratingly incomplete. Forex, my father once told me that on visiting day he saw a little girl come up to me, say "Hello, Joshie," and that I just ignored her. Or the fact that my mother told me in fifth grade that I was very resistant to change (as I still am). Or the way in which I was so far beyond the other kids at school intellectually and so far behind socially. So many things like that that are suggestive in retrospect but are hard to assess without a living adult who knew me back then.

There are some people still alive who knew me some when I was a bit older, e.g., my father's third wife, so I may be able to get some information from them.

I think from what I've read so far here and in the literature and my results on all the quizzes that it's blazingly obvious at this point that I'm either BAP or on the spectrum, but I think I'm at the limit as far as self-diagnosis is concerned. Compared to BAP friends I'm well much worse. They didn't have things like not speaking for three years. They don't have selective mutism or shutdowns or find themselves unable to fill out a simple form because they start to get a meltdown. They don't recoil from human touch. I had very clear-cut results on the tests it would be one thing but overall I seem to score half NT half Aspie. Forex, I can recognize facial expressions but I'm partly face blind. But even there -- did I learn to recognize facial expressions over the years?

I read what I wrote above about mutism and shutdowns and meltdowns and I say I'm fooling myself if I say it isn't blazingly obvious and that I'm just in denial. An official diagnosis would at least stop me from agonizing over these questions. Though I admit at this point that the difference is largely emotional, since the degree to which I suffer (and benefit) depends on the traits rather than the diagnosis. So I guess we're in the same boat there.