Bloomberg: Don't vote for Sanders & Trump, they're using you

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LoveNotHate
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02 May 2016, 8:37 am

Almajo88 wrote:
As a Brit, looking in from the outside, the US political discourse is baffling. Americans pay vastly more in healthcare costs than we do and receive an inferior service yet the obvious solution is described as an impossible promise by cynical journos.

Sanders is taking the fight where it counts, to big money in politics, rather than making empty promises that end up more accountable to big money than to the electorate.


America has the best health care in the world for people with money.

UK has millions of people on a waiting list for surgery.

Americans [with money] would never tolerate a waiting list -- they would see that as third world medical care.

Canada has the same problems as the UK of a waiting list, so some wealthy bypass the list, and come to America for treatment.



Almajo88
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02 May 2016, 5:53 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Almajo88 wrote:
As a Brit, looking in from the outside, the US political discourse is baffling. Americans pay vastly more in healthcare costs than we do and receive an inferior service yet the obvious solution is described as an impossible promise by cynical journos.

Sanders is taking the fight where it counts, to big money in politics, rather than making empty promises that end up more accountable to big money than to the electorate.


America has the best health care in the world for people with money.

UK has millions of people on a waiting list for surgery.

Americans [with money] would never tolerate a waiting list -- they would see that as third world medical care.

Canada has the same problems as the UK of a waiting list, so some wealthy bypass the list, and come to America for treatment.


Not sure how this is a counterpoint. The US, on average, pays almost twice as much, proportional to the population, on healthcare. The US is on the bottom-end of first-world countries as far as life expectancy goes, and there isn't a much better indication of healthcare quality.

Keep in mind that people in the UK can opt for private healthcare if they wish, and that our healthcare system is being undermined by the Tory government and has been since 2010; things could be better. Also keep in mind that anybody here can see a general practitioner in a reasonable time frame, without paying, which appropriately directs people regardless of profit and improves prevention of illness. We also have subsidised medication and regulated prices, meaning that we aren't ripped off by medical monopolies with no interest in society.

Ultimately, private healthcare means that sociopaths who only care about profits will be in charge of your care. There's a reason that countries with national healthcare systems have a higher life expectancy and lower cost of healthcare. Americans are being charged a tax to subsidise the profits of healthcare companies.



LoveNotHate
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02 May 2016, 9:24 pm

Almajo88 wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Almajo88 wrote:
As a Brit, looking in from the outside, the US political discourse is baffling. Americans pay vastly more in healthcare costs than we do and receive an inferior service yet the obvious solution is described as an impossible promise by cynical journos.

Sanders is taking the fight where it counts, to big money in politics, rather than making empty promises that end up more accountable to big money than to the electorate.


America has the best health care in the world for people with money.

UK has millions of people on a waiting list for surgery.

Americans [with money] would never tolerate a waiting list -- they would see that as third world medical care.

Canada has the same problems as the UK of a waiting list, so some wealthy bypass the list, and come to America for treatment.


Not sure how this is a counterpoint. The US, on average, pays almost twice as much, proportional to the population, on healthcare. The US is on the bottom-end of first-world countries as far as life expectancy goes, and there isn't a much better indication of healthcare quality.

Keep in mind that people in the UK can opt for private healthcare if they wish, and that our healthcare system is being undermined by the Tory government and has been since 2010; things could be better. Also keep in mind that anybody here can see a general practitioner in a reasonable time frame, without paying, which appropriately directs people regardless of profit and improves prevention of illness. We also have subsidised medication and regulated prices, meaning that we aren't ripped off by medical monopolies with no interest in society.

Ultimately, private healthcare means that sociopaths who only care about profits will be in charge of your care. There's a reason that countries with national healthcare systems have a higher life expectancy and lower cost of healthcare. Americans are being charged a tax to subsidise the profits of healthcare companies.

America is the #1 obese nation and we have high gun violence in our inner cities, so the average life expectancy of an America will not be as long. However, this has nothing to do with our health care system.

The first impediment to single-payer health care is taxes. Sanders proposed a new health care tax. Sanders tells us that somehow he will save us money if we agree to his new tax. That is an often repeated lie from politicians, so most Americans will be skeptical. Most likely Sander's new tax would just go to feed the existing system.

Further complicating Sander's plans is that many people get 100% free health care now. We give our poor and elderly free health care through Medicaid and Obamacare subsidies. Sanders is threatening to take away their free health care and replace it with a 2.2% tax.

The second impediment is that the UK system looks like a failure with the waiting lists. Americans are too wealthy overall to tolerate waiting lists.

Recently, one of our VA (veterans) hospitals had long wait time for soldiers, and it caused a national outrage, so much so that President Obama had to become personally involved, and fire people. The UK system would be seen as regressing to a third world type of medical care. Analogously, imagine buying a new tv with all the bells and whistles, and it takes 1 hour to turn on -- you would think it's a failure.

The third impediment for Sanders, is that President Obama & Democrats just got us "Obamacare", and Sanders wants to undo their cherished work. Sanders wants to undo President Obama's signature accomplishment.



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02 May 2016, 10:40 pm

Quote:
The Plan Would Be Fully Paid For By:

A 6.2 percent income-based health care premium paid by employers.
Revenue raised: $630 billion per year.
A 2.2 percent income-based premium paid by households.
Revenue raised: $210 billion per year.This year, a family of four taking the standard deduction can have income up to $28,800 and not pay this tax under this plan.

A family of four making $50,000 a year taking the standard deduction would only pay $466 this year.
Progressive income tax rates.
Revenue raised: $110 billion a year.Under this plan the marginal income tax rate would be:

37 percent on income between $250,000 and $500,000.
43 percent on income between $500,000 and $2 million.
48 percent on income between $2 million and $10 million. (In 2013, only 113,000 households, the top 0.08 percent of taxpayers, had income between $2 million and $10 million.)
52 percent on income above $10 million. (In 2013, only 13,000 households, just 0.01 percent of taxpayers, had income exceeding $10 million.)
Taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work.
Revenue raised: $92 billion per year.Warren Buffett, the second wealthiest American in the country, has said that he pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary. The reason is that he receives most of his income from capital gains and dividends, which are taxed at a much lower rate than income from work. This plan will end the special tax break for capital gains and dividends on household income above $250,000.
Limit tax deductions for rich.
Revenue raised: $15 billion per year. Under Bernie’s plan, households making over $250,000 would no longer be able to save more than 28 cents in taxes from every dollar in tax deductions. This limit would replace more complicated and less effective limits on tax breaks for the rich including the AMT, the personal exemption phase-out and the limit on itemized deductions.
The Responsible Estate Tax.
Revenue raised: $21 billion per year.This provision would tax the estates of the wealthiest 0.3 percent (three-tenths of 1 percent) of Americans who inherit over $3.5 million at progressive rates and close loopholes in the estate tax.
Savings from health tax expenditures.
Revenue raised: $310 billion per year. Several tax breaks that subsidize health care (health-related “tax expenditures”) would become obsolete and disappear under a single-payer health care system, saving $310 billion per year.

Most importantly, health care provided by employers is compensation that is not subject to payroll taxes or income taxes under current law. This is a significant tax break that would effectively disappear under this plan because all Americans would receive health care through the new single-payer program instead of employer-based health care.


Straight from Bernie's website. Personally I don't see the problem with it.

If we got insurance companies and big pharmaceuticals out of our healthcare system we would pay less for healthcare in America right off the bat. Their stranglehold on our system keeps Americans paying way too much for healthcare. America is the only industrialized country that has 25-45,000 people die every year due to lack of healthcare insurance. That's unacceptable in my opinion. That figure may have changed under the ACA I'm not sure. :P

Oh, and by the way. Single payer is just a better version of Obamacare. Nothing scary about it.


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LoveNotHate
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02 May 2016, 11:29 pm

RoadRatt wrote:
Oh, and by the way. Single payer is just a better version of Obamacare. Nothing scary about it.

Sander's taxes are a problem.

There are tens of millions of Democrat-leaning union pensioners like my mom.

She's retired and gets "free health care" from the employer she retired at. She still works though.

These voters most likely won't like his new health care taxes. Why should they?

Also, there are tens of millions of poor/elderly people who get it 100% free now through Medicaid and Obamacare subsidies. So, these tens of millions of Democrat-leaning voters most likely won't like his taxes. Why should they?



JackBruns
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03 May 2016, 2:24 pm

xenocity wrote:
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“Every generation has had to confront its own demagogues. And every generation has stood up and kept them away from the White House. At least so far,” he said. “Today, when a populist candidate promises free college, free health care and a pony [Sanders] or another candidate promises to make other countries pay for our needs [Trump], remember: Those who promise you a free lunch will invariably eat you for breakfast.”


This was part of Michael Bloomberg's commencement speech at University of Michigan.

He went on to say anyone who is willing to go the length to promise you the stuff that Sanders and Trump have, they are far more dangerous than the rest of the politicians.
Yes he really thinks both Trump and Sanders are purposely resorting to this in order to get elected because they intentions that they don't want voters to know about.

Bloomberg is the previous progressive mayor of NYC, who was widely beloved by the public and country as a whole.
Though hated by his own party the GOP for being progressive.
http://time.com/4313436/michael-bloombe ... e-sanders/


Bloomberg is a low energy Bush, and Crooked Hillary supporter. He belongs in prison along with Zuckerberg, Soros, Gates, Cheney, and the rest of the pro oligarchy bandits.



RoadRatt
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03 May 2016, 3:56 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sander's taxes are a problem.

There are tens of millions of Democrat-leaning union pensioners like my mom.

She's retired and gets "free health care" from the employer she retired at. She still works though.

These voters most likely won't like his new health care taxes. Why should they?

Also, there are tens of millions of poor/elderly people who get it 100% free now through Medicaid and Obamacare subsidies. So, these tens of millions of Democrat-leaning voters most likely won't like his taxes. Why should they?


Here watch this, it should explain why every American will save money with single payer health care.



I can't comment on your mom. I have no idea on those kind of specifics. :P


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11 Jun 2016, 7:31 pm

https://www.aimseducation.edu/blog/us-v ... ealthcare/

Better in UK? Um nope, not exactly.
And My fiance's home in Poland scares me for a universal healthcare, it doesn't really do much for children like my non verbal son.



Also Canucks or "snowbirds" as we call them in AZ, are not just there for the GrandCanyone and warm winter. Long before NAFTA there are whole communities that are empty most the year and are made up of Canadians in RVs or returning to modest permanent homes, and they are in a large majority "health care tourists" . I have a pal in NY that says she sees a lot of Canadians for healthcare. But here.... see a Canadian news source for numbers

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/e ... -1.2997726 our health service says number is more like 42k
http://pnhp.org/blog/2014/03/17/42000-c ... re-really/

What we have as problem is the minority that fall thru the cracks, really fall deep. Many of which are mostly mental health. And no covering of electives unless private paid.


Now the systems described by my Danish friend in the 80s (she was a special cross training military thing) and my German friend in mid 2000 (mil wife just arrived) sounded better but that kinda of cradle to grave came at hige price and was intordiced in small tightely controlled counties, not an EU sized behemoth like us


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gingerpickles
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11 Jun 2016, 7:55 pm

http://animalnewyork.com/2014/bloomberg ... ll-return/

Mike Bloomberg is a Wiener!. and if you think Trump is a predatory businessman WT- level of dooshitude is THIS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pqe_oqDJp0
http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/24/mayor ... ld-go-on-s

AND to top it he is anti-constitution kook Like Hillary his buddy
Luckily his shenannigans already warned potential voters of either party to steer clear
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/vot ... ntial-bid/
as of Feb his chances look nil. I'll vote for nutcase McAfee before Bloomberg or Hillary if Trump suddenly said "It was fun, but not real fun. I'm Audi400 of here!'


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