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cavernio
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07 May 2016, 5:12 pm

Fnord wrote:
This "White Privilege" crap was not made up foster a dialogue between whites and non-whites, it was pulled out of a horse's pa-toot to suppress white people's right to free speech. Telling a white person to "check your privilege" is done because someone wants to discount anything that that particular white person might have to say - it's a "Get Out of Thinking Card" for racists who would rather assume that white people have had their "privileges" handed to them, and to summarily disqualify every thought and idea that a white person might subsequently present.

In other words, "Check your privilege" is merely a politically correct way of saying "S.T.F.U.!" :roll:

Sure, there is such thing a as 'Status', and there is such a thing as 'Privilege'; but to assume that every white person automatically has the same status and privileges as the upper 1% of the socio-economic spectrum is a very naive and narrow-minded assumption to make.


Is that what the person who tells you to check your privilege describes it as when you ask what it means? Because that's not what I understand it to be whatsoever. In fact, I only hear that as what that means from people who seem to not have listened to the underlying principle of the idea. The privileges that I understand that are being referred to aren't even things that most people even think about as BEING privileges. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT eg: The privilege of not being harassed by police simply because of your skin tone. eg: The privilege to work a night shift alone because you are a man. eg: The privilege of having police automatically think that the woman needs extra help in the case of domestic abuse, that it was not her being the abuser.

It has nothing to do with free speech and it really galls me when this idea gets twisted around into being something it's not. It's like people who say feminism is about man-hating. Ummmm....man-hating is about man-hating. The definition of 'check your privilege' should maintain what it was at the beginning, not turn into the definition of what people argued against it meant.


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Fnord
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07 May 2016, 6:53 pm

cavernio wrote:
... I only hear that as what that means from people who seem to not have listened to the underlying principle of the idea. The privileges that I understand that are being referred to aren't even things that most people even think about as BEING privileges. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT eg: The privilege of not being harassed by police simply because of your skin tone. eg: The privilege to work a night shift alone because you are a man. eg: The privilege of having police automatically think that the woman needs extra help in the case of domestic abuse, that it was not her being the abuser...
The privilege of a dark-skinned person to refer to family, friends, and co-workers as "Niggahs" (their word, not mine) without repercussions just because they all have the same dark skin as the speaker; the privilege of a dark-skinned person or a female person being admitted to university before an equally-qualified light-skinned male person; the female privilege of seeing an unfaithful male lover go to prison on a false accusation of rape that had no physical evidence to support it...

Yeah, I understand both the dictionary definition of 'privilege', as well as the real-world practice of social privileges. There is a difference.


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ASPartOfMe
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07 May 2016, 7:00 pm

Bieng arrested because of your race is discrimination. In general not being arrested because of your race is not privilege, it is bieng treated they way you are supposed to be treated. Not bieng arrested because an individual cop knows your daddy, or your daddy is the richest man in town, or the cop because you are white thinks you are not a criminal type means you were treated unfairly well and extended a privilege.


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Fnord
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07 May 2016, 7:05 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Being arrested because of your race is discrimination. In general not being arrested because of your race is not privilege, it is being treated they way you are supposed to be treated. Not being arrested because an individual cop knows your daddy, or your daddy is the richest man in town, or the cop because you are white thinks you are not a criminal type means you were treated unfairly well and extended a privilege.
That's not 'privilege' - that's corruption and laziness.


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Kraichgauer
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07 May 2016, 7:07 pm

Fnord wrote:
cavernio wrote:
... I only hear that as what that means from people who seem to not have listened to the underlying principle of the idea. The privileges that I understand that are being referred to aren't even things that most people even think about as BEING privileges. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT eg: The privilege of not being harassed by police simply because of your skin tone. eg: The privilege to work a night shift alone because you are a man. eg: The privilege of having police automatically think that the woman needs extra help in the case of domestic abuse, that it was not her being the abuser...
The privilege of a dark-skinned person to refer to family, friends, and co-workers as "Niggahs" (their word, not mine) without repercussions just because they all have the same dark skin as the speaker; the privilege of a dark-skinned person or a female person being admitted to university before an equally-qualified light-skinned male person; the female privilege of seeing an unfaithful male lover go to prison on a false accusation of rape that had no physical evidence to support it...

Yeah, I understand both the dictionary definition of 'privilege', as well as the real-world practice of social privileges. There is a difference.


The privilege to use the N word is hardly a privilege at all. As for a dark skinned college applicant given "preferential treatment" in admissions; that's set in place because too many dark skinned people aren't given equal opportunities for higher education - yes Virginia, there is still institutional racism. And the fact is, as dark skinned people are a minority, I find it hard to believe many white people are really that discriminated against due to affirmative action. As for innocent men sent to prison for rape by vindictive ex lovers: sure, it's happened, but I have to think it's not nearly as common as is popularly believed.


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LyraLuthTinu
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07 May 2016, 7:17 pm

This is what I got:

Quote:
How Privileged Are You?

You live with 45 out of 100 points of privilege.
You’re not privileged at all. You grew up with an intersectional, complicated identity, and life never let you forget it. You’ve had your fair share of struggles, and you’ve worked hard to overcome them. We do not live in an ideal world and you had to learn that the hard way. It is not your responsibility to educate those with more advantages than you, but if you decide you want to, go ahead and send them this quiz. Hopefully it will help.


I am white, female, heterosexual, Christian, American, mid/late forties, with an associate's degree. I don't have a physical or learning disability but I do have ASD, a social disability. I'm thinking just female+ASD+working poor was enough to keep me below the 50% mark on Privilege.

That said I think this whole "check your privilege" concept is inherently flawed. It speaks to a false dichotomy imo: you either are privileged, and therefore a bully by default just by being who you are, or you're a victim.

You can be a heterosexual white male, have enough money and a good job, and **not** bully people. You can be underprivileged and choose not to dwell on your limitations but strive to overcome them. This "check your privilege" garbage keeps people down by telling them they can't make it because the deck is stacked against them, and seeks to lay blame and shame and humiliation on people who were born male to upper-income white households.


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Fnord
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07 May 2016, 7:19 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Fnord wrote:
cavernio wrote:
... I only hear that as what that means from people who seem to not have listened to the underlying principle of the idea. The privileges that I understand that are being referred to aren't even things that most people even think about as BEING privileges. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT eg: The privilege of not being harassed by police simply because of your skin tone. eg: The privilege to work a night shift alone because you are a man. eg: The privilege of having police automatically think that the woman needs extra help in the case of domestic abuse, that it was not her being the abuser...
The privilege of a dark-skinned person to refer to family, friends, and co-workers as "Niggahs" (their word, not mine) without repercussions just because they all have the same dark skin as the speaker; the privilege of a dark-skinned person or a female person being admitted to university before an equally-qualified light-skinned male person; the female privilege of seeing an unfaithful male lover go to prison on a false accusation of rape that had no physical evidence to support it. Yeah, I understand both the dictionary definition of 'privilege', as well as the real-world practice of social privileges. There is a difference.
The privilege to use the N word is hardly a privilege at all.
Right ... try using it around a group of people who are privileged by race to use it among themselves.
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for a dark skinned college applicant given "preferential treatment" in admissions; that's set in place because too many dark skinned people aren't given equal opportunities for higher education - yes Virginia, there is still institutional racism.
Even with this legally-sanctioned preference/privilege in practice? Then why is the practice still being used? It must work for somebody ... and against somebody else ...
Kraichgauer wrote:
And the fact is, as dark skinned people are a minority, I find it hard to believe many white people are really that discriminated against.
I have yet to meet a member of a minority who didn't somehow feel discriminated against.
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for innocent men sent to prison for rape by vindictive ex lovers: sure, it's happened, but I have to think it's not nearly as common as is popularly believed.
That it happens at all clearly demonstrates that this female privilege exists.

People will deny that discrimination exists - or pretend that "it's not nearly as common as is popularly believed" - until it happens to them or to someone close to them. Being a middle-aged white male married to an attractive Asian female, I've witnessed and experienced more discrimination in the past week than you likely have in the past ten years.

That discrimination exists is bad enough; denying and denigration a discriminatory experience only adds more insult to the injury.


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07 May 2016, 7:20 pm

i got 48: not privileged.


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Fnord
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07 May 2016, 7:26 pm

Quote:
How Privileged Are You?
You live with 10 out of 100 points of privilege.

You’re underprivileged. The world is not a fair or ideal place and you know that because you grew up with several identities that the world is not kind to. You had a lot of challenges to overcome simply to get on a level playing field with most people in the world. It is not your job to educate the world about its injustices, but if you choose to, go ahead and send them this quiz. Hopefully it will help.
I expected at least 20 - 25 points.


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techstepgenr8tion
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07 May 2016, 7:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
...

I hadn't really considered throwing the DSM at them. OTOH are they railing about persecution? Yes. Is the bulk of it general life suffering everyone has that they've mistaken for an effect of their skin color? In most cases I'm comfortable saying yes here as well.

I had a short exchange like this with naturalplastics a month ago for using the word 'paranoid', mostly in the context of a person first and foremost worrying a lot about whether they'll be caught for thinking something rather than having a form of psychosis. There's DSM language and there's 'Merican colloquialisms like "*snort* - Haw! You're just paranoid!". Have to say I've grown up with much more of the later than I have DSM as Merriam Webster.


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Last edited by techstepgenr8tion on 07 May 2016, 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TentofMot
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07 May 2016, 7:31 pm

Why? Am I leaking?



Kraichgauer
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07 May 2016, 7:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Fnord wrote:
cavernio wrote:
... I only hear that as what that means from people who seem to not have listened to the underlying principle of the idea. The privileges that I understand that are being referred to aren't even things that most people even think about as BEING privileges. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT eg: The privilege of not being harassed by police simply because of your skin tone. eg: The privilege to work a night shift alone because you are a man. eg: The privilege of having police automatically think that the woman needs extra help in the case of domestic abuse, that it was not her being the abuser...
The privilege of a dark-skinned person to refer to family, friends, and co-workers as "Niggahs" (their word, not mine) without repercussions just because they all have the same dark skin as the speaker; the privilege of a dark-skinned person or a female person being admitted to university before an equally-qualified light-skinned male person; the female privilege of seeing an unfaithful male lover go to prison on a false accusation of rape that had no physical evidence to support it. Yeah, I understand both the dictionary definition of 'privilege', as well as the real-world practice of social privileges. There is a difference.
The privilege to use the N word is hardly a privilege at all.
Right ... try using it around a group of people who are privileged by race to use it among themselves.
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for a dark skinned college applicant given "preferential treatment" in admissions; that's set in place because too many dark skinned people aren't given equal opportunities for higher education - yes Virginia, there is still institutional racism.
Even with this legally-sanctioned preference/privilege in practice? Then why is the practice still being used? It must work for somebody ... and against somebody else ...
Kraichgauer wrote:
And the fact is, as dark skinned people are a minority, I find it hard to believe many white people are really that discriminated against.
I have yet to meet a member of a minority who didn't somehow feel discriminated against.
Kraichgauer wrote:
As for innocent men sent to prison for rape by vindictive ex lovers: sure, it's happened, but I have to think it's not nearly as common as is popularly believed.
That it happens at all clearly demonstrates that this female privilege exists.

People will deny that discrimination exists - or pretend that "it's not nearly as common as is popularly believed" - until it happens to them or to someone close to them. Being a middle-aged white male married to an attractive Asian female, I've witnessed and experienced more discrimination in the past week than you likely have in the past ten years.

That discrimination exists is bad enough; denying and denigration a discriminatory experience only adds more insult to the injury.


The question is, why would I ever want to use the N word? I find the power behind the word ugly, as it's used by non-blacks to denigrate blacks. If the use of that word is a black privilege I don't have, well, I think I can live with that.
And I have never, ever been discriminated against due to affirmative action. Giving someone a helping hand doesn't have to mean someone else has to lose, or that that was ever the purposeful intent.
I am sincerely sorry you've had a hard time of it, and I imagine I'd be feeling what you're feeling if I was in your shoes.


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cavernio
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07 May 2016, 10:00 pm

I'm sure that a major problem with this discussion iin this thread s that we are all in different parts of the world and therefore our own personal experiences might not even be properly extrapolated to someone else's, even if someone is the same race, gender, etc as the other person.

I had deleted this from my previous post, but a statement like 'Check your privilege' is, well...I mean, most if not all people on this forum are ASD or some other issue, and therefore are already underprivileged as well, just in different ways than based on race and gender. So yes, when someone says to you 'check your privilege' you're probably immediately thinking 'welp, I have an ASD, I'm already behind' so OF COURSE the statement will bother you. In your case though, it might be a hidden thing, because your disability is hidden. There are groups that support 'hidden' disabilities/issues specifically.


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08 May 2016, 2:27 am

Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Being arrested because of your race is discrimination. In general not being arrested because of your race is not privilege, it is being treated they way you are supposed to be treated. Not being arrested because an individual cop knows your daddy, or your daddy is the richest man in town, or the cop because you are white thinks you are not a criminal type means you were treated unfairly well and extended a privilege.
That's not 'privilege' - that's corruption and laziness.


It is all of the above and a privilege. Corruption and Nepotism probably account for a large majority of privilege.


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08 May 2016, 3:05 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Absolutely. That being said, Maher never denies the existence of real racism, like too many conservatives do.


Do you know why they do that? I mean some of them really believe that, since the GOP power base is rural and suburban folks who honestly may never have seen it, but I think the major reason is that it's become such a partisan issue that acknowledging it is seen as giving a "point" to the liberals, and, more importantly, opening the door to more of the intrusive government regulation that liberals tend to support but that conservatives consider anathema. Similar dynamic to climate change; it's not so much about the facts as it is about not allowing an opening for the imposition of undesirable laws and regulations.


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