Trump: "Run the economy like a failed casino!"

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Edenthiel
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07 May 2016, 7:09 pm

"Speaking on CNBC, Trump said he embraces the idea of taking on debt, given that borrowers can try to tweak the terms later on. Indeed, as a businessman, Trump has used the bankruptcy laws on several occasions to reduce his companies' debts.

"I am the king of debt. I do love debt. I love debt. I love playing with it," Trump said."

"Donald Trump says he knows how the U.S. can get out of paying all its debts"
(Simply refuse to pay it back! The man is a genius - what could possibly go wrong, right?)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/06/king-of-debt-donald-trump-says-he-knows-how-the-u-s-might-get-out-of-paying-it-all%E2%80%8B-back/

"US Treasury bonds have very low interest rates because investors are extremely confident they will be paid in full, even in poor economic conditions. Trump — by openly saying that he would keep partial payment on the table as an option — could spark a crisis in the Treasury markets if he became president. Investors would cease to see Treasurys as a safe asset, and they would demand higher interest rates in exchange for risk."
url]http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-treasury-haircut-idea-insane-2016-5[/url]

Keep in mind that Treasury Bonds have paid out face value since they were first floated by President Washington; they are therefore seen as a very safe investment and are a cornerstone of the relative stability of our economy.

The most likely effect of refusing to pay the full value would be skyrocketing interest rates.


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LoveNotHate
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07 May 2016, 11:39 pm

Real Estate speculation 101: how to weasel out of bad deals.

By the time Trump's presidency is over, we'll all have honorary Trump U degrees! :)



ASPartOfMe
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08 May 2016, 8:28 am

If the USA defaults because of Presidents we have chosen and will chose do not expect a Greek type or any type of bailout but Schadenfreude on steroids. The world will say, deal with the American way, suck on it losers.


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JackBruns
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11 May 2016, 1:23 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
"Speaking on CNBC, Trump said he embraces the idea of taking on debt, given that borrowers can try to tweak the terms later on. Indeed, as a businessman, Trump has used the bankruptcy laws on several occasions to reduce his companies' debts.

"I am the king of debt. I do love debt. I love debt. I love playing with it," Trump said."

"Donald Trump says he knows how the U.S. can get out of paying all its debts"
(Simply refuse to pay it back! The man is a genius - what could possibly go wrong, right?)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/06/king-of-debt-donald-trump-says-he-knows-how-the-u-s-might-get-out-of-paying-it-all%E2%80%8B-back/

"US Treasury bonds have very low interest rates because investors are extremely confident they will be paid in full, even in poor economic conditions. Trump — by openly saying that he would keep partial payment on the table as an option — could spark a crisis in the Treasury markets if he became president. Investors would cease to see Treasurys as a safe asset, and they would demand higher interest rates in exchange for risk."
url]http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-treasury-haircut-idea-insane-2016-5[/url]

Keep in mind that Treasury Bonds have paid out face value since they were first floated by President Washington; they are therefore seen as a very safe investment and are a cornerstone of the relative stability of our economy.

The most likely effect of refusing to pay the full value would be skyrocketing interest rates.



wowiexist
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11 May 2016, 6:21 pm

This is the kind of stuff that scares me about Donald Trump. Some of the other candidates may be crazy but at least they know what they are talking about. This proves that Donald Trump knows nothing about how the economy works.



luan78zao
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11 May 2016, 7:44 pm

Not to defend Trump, but the Democratic way has long been to run the economy as if they were the Mafia, offering "protection": Nice business you have here. Funnel enough money to me, through lobbyists, and I'll make sure nothing too awful happens to it …

Then of course now there's the guy who wants to run the economy like Venezuela. Where they are now killing cats and pigeons for food.

I just don't see a good side here. :cry:


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12 May 2016, 10:56 am

Talk all the sh*t you want, but none of you here could build the empire that Trump has built. Omg 4 of Trump's businesses filled bankruptcy. Ignoring the fact that he has countless other successful businesses and that all businesses take risks and loose some because of said risks. Remember "New Pepsi"? That's a perfect example, but I guess Pepsi doesn't know how to run a company since they lost a lot of money on a product.



Jacoby
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12 May 2016, 12:11 pm

The reality is that we're never going to be able to pay back these trillions without enslaving generations so it is better to stiff the people that don't need to be paid. The dollar is screwed in the long run regardless, we are going to have a currency crisis sooner than later. Stiffing a few people that don't need to be paid isn't the worst idea in the world, when you default you can renegotiate the debt down to something managable. Our own government owns a couple trillion of our own debt, we could write off the money that we owe ourselves. If we do not get our debt in control the eventually our biggest expenditure with be servicing interest on our debt bigger than defense or Medicare. Trump said that it would be impossible for the US to default since it prints the money which is something echoed by folks like Paul Krugman and I believe is essentially true but the problem with printing money like that is that it is essentially new tax as the value of the dollar is being leached out.

What is Hillary or Bernie's plan for the debt? To add $20 trillion more?



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12 May 2016, 12:14 pm

I think running the economy "like a failed casino" would be a step up in many ways. ;) When you think about it, the whole system is based on a huge gamble, think about real estate. When you look at it one way, the stock market and even bond markets are a form of gambling. I know myself, I'm leaning towards Trump considering the alternative (I even think that Sanders has a good idea or three on the economy) but I cannot fathom the alternative. Put it simply, I think we need a modern day "Matt Dillion" (James Arness, "Gunsmoke" is one of my favorite TV shows) and Trump is the closet. Even so, this election is a hard choice for me.



MrLucky
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12 May 2016, 12:20 pm

Jacoby wrote:
The reality is that we're never going to be able to pay back these trillions without enslaving generations so it is better to stiff the people that don't need to be paid. The dollar is screwed in the long run regardless, we are going to have a currency crisis sooner than later. Stiffing a few people that don't need to be paid isn't the worst idea in the world, when you default you can renegotiate the debt down to something managable. Our own government owns a couple trillion of our own debt, we could write off the money that we owe ourselves. If we do not get our debt in control the eventually our biggest expenditure with be servicing interest on our debt bigger than defense or Medicare. Trump said that it would be impossible for the US to default since it prints the money which is something echoed by folks like Paul Krugman and I believe is essentially true but the problem with printing money like that is that it is essentially new tax as the value of the dollar is being leached out.

What is Hillary or Bernie's plan for the debt? To add $20 trillion more?


Yeah, I tend to be libertarian, I see myself as center-right politically. I do think a few liberal ideas do have merit, but I realize that government cannot do everything for everyone and we need to reign in costs. We do need to figure out ways to help those that need it while not breaking the bank. That is the hard point.

I think in reality, default or some sort of jubilee is the only way out of this debt. When you think about it, if every dollar is one mile, you are talking about distances to nearby stars. When things get so bad when you start talking about light years and interstellar space flight, it is time to throw in the towel. I do think, like a computer with a bloated operating system and a fragmented hard drive, it is time for a reformat, reinstall and reboot.



Edenthiel
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12 May 2016, 7:54 pm

MrLucky wrote:
I think in reality, default or some sort of jubilee is the only way out of this debt.


Well, we could curtail our wars overseas and prevent International Corporate Persons from avoiding paying their share. Those two things alone would go a long way toward this deficit. Problem is, our politicians are *owned* by corporations and the thousand or so people who in turn own them. End result is our government over time is more concerned with making those 'investors' more profits than providing for our own masses. If you look at the deficit chart starting in 1900, it starts ramping up from a linear to a non-linear rate with the enactment of Reaganomics & the Trickle Down theory.


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12 May 2016, 9:57 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
MrLucky wrote:
I think in reality, default or some sort of jubilee is the only way out of this debt.


Well, we could curtail our wars overseas and prevent International Corporate Persons from avoiding paying their share. Those two things alone would go a long way toward this deficit. Problem is, our politicians are *owned* by corporations and the thousand or so people who in turn own them. End result is our government over time is more concerned with making those 'investors' more profits than providing for our own masses. If you look at the deficit chart starting in 1900, it starts ramping up from a linear to a non-linear rate with the enactment of Reaganomics & the Trickle Down theory.


At this point there really is no amount of austerity or tax raises that could cut down the debt, we could maybe hope to not add to it but we're not going to be making a lot of progress with the $65 trillion we really owe probably ever. Even the more cited $20 trillion is impossible to pay back. Time had an interesting article today about capitalism in America and the dominant role that financial sector has taken in our economy over the last 40 years, they described our governments actions towards stagnating wages and growth was to 'let them eat credit' which has created this massive fake economy.

Renegotiating our debt is going to be necessary, protect the retirees and the jobs who should of never been tied up in up in the stock market to be gambled with and tell the banks and hedge fund managers to go to hell. The status quo is not sustainable, we either need radical revolutionary change or we will be enslaved.



wowiexist
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12 May 2016, 10:49 pm

I don't understand how our government would renegotiate our debt. Who exactly are we negotiating it with?



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13 May 2016, 12:25 am

wowiexist wrote:
I don't understand how our government would renegotiate our debt. Who exactly are we negotiating it with?

Well, Trump's plan as cited in the article isn't really negotiating, it's taking out a loan and only paying back a small portion. The debt holders in this case are the current bond holders: everyone from China to the major Wall Street banks. Yes, not exactly our best friends, but the instability of the largest economy in the world not paying it's debt would drive fear into the market in a way we've never seen before.



Edenthiel
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13 May 2016, 12:45 am

Aristophanes wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
I don't understand how our government would renegotiate our debt. Who exactly are we negotiating it with?

Well, Trump's plan as cited in the article isn't really negotiating, it's taking out a loan and only paying back a small portion. The debt holders in this case are the current bond holders: everyone from China to the major Wall Street banks. Yes, not exactly our best friends, but the instability of the largest economy in the world not paying it's debt would drive fear into the market in a way we've never seen before.

Crazy idea: Maybe we should stop basing our economy on the stock market, it's a bit of a fox-guarding-the-coop kinda place.


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MrLucky
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13 May 2016, 12:26 pm

Edenthiel wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
I don't understand how our government would renegotiate our debt. Who exactly are we negotiating it with?

Well, Trump's plan as cited in the article isn't really negotiating, it's taking out a loan and only paying back a small portion. The debt holders in this case are the current bond holders: everyone from China to the major Wall Street banks. Yes, not exactly our best friends, but the instability of the largest economy in the world not paying it's debt would drive fear into the market in a way we've never seen before.

Crazy idea: Maybe we should stop basing our economy on the stock market, it's a bit of a fox-guarding-the-coop kinda place.


Yeah, I think the same way. My retire father's 401K took a bath and instead of him being down to 10 years on it, he is down to 8. I have nothing against the stock market but we do need to realize that it is basically nothing but a huge casino, hence the name of this thread. Tying important things ike retirement funds and so forth to it is not a wise idea.